to the presenting of others still more offensive. The House must make a stand against such a practice at some time or other, and it was better to do so now than at any after period. It had been said to be a respectable meeting, but gentlemen saw enough of what was to be expected from such meetings in the neighbourhood of populous towns, and the spirit of this meeting might be judged of from their refusing to hear a gentleman of the highest respectability, a member of that Ilouse (Mr. Mellish), on his attempting to deliver his sentiments on the subject. This circumstance did not add much to the argument derived from the unanimity of the meeting. easily submitted to any other tribunal than that of Parliament itself. In propor tion, then, as the subjects of the realm found the means of its legal discussion narrowed, in that proportion should Parliament open the doors to any appeal made to itself upon the subject, and not too scrupulously weigh the terms in which such an appeal was made. For these reasons he should vote for receiving the petition. Mr. Barham wished, as the present was a question of very great importance, that time should be given for consideration, and that there should be a fuller attendance of the House than there was at that moment. If such a discussion had been expected, he was satisfied the attendance would have been fuller. He should therefore move that the debate be adjourned till to-morrow. If pressed for an imme-, diate opinion, he must say that he was against receiving the petition. Mr. Grenfell seconded the motion of adjournment. Mr. Hawkins Browne thought the words of the petition shewed that it was not the object of the petition to procure the liberation of sir F. Burdett, a reform in parliament, or any other specific object. The petition was only made the vehicle of conveying a gross insult to the House, and a dogmatical denial of its privileges. The petition from Westminster was capaMr. H. Summer conceived the paper ble of receiving a more favourable inter- now under consideration had nothing in it pretation. The present was hot. It was of a petition but the name. Such a pracbecoming in that House to be moderate; tice ought to be checked in limine; and but when moderation produced only in-he saw no occasion for delaying till to sult, then it became the House to assert morrow what they ought to do to-day. A its dignity. He thought the House might worthy alderman was afraid of the conseby a former occasion have adopted the quences of refusing such petition. For more moderate course; but now it was his own part he had no fear of the kind. necessary for them to support their proceedings. Mr. Hibbert said, that the petitioners were not, like the majority of that House, convinced of the constitutional authority of its privileges. They, on the contrary, denied that authority, and more particularly questioned the legality of those acts in which it had recently been asserted. Allowance was to be made for men warm with such a subject; but he should be sorry if the warmth which might have found its way into some expressions of their petition, should be caught by the House in commenting upon those expressions. The passage which had been so much objected to, would be found at last to be no more than the most brief, abrupt, and somewhat coarse declaration of the opinion of the petitioners, which they must either have indulged, or have no ground for petitioning at all. There was another consideration, and he begged to address it to the feelings of the House. This question of privilege of Parliament was, it seemed, one, which could not be VOL. XVI. Mr. Lambe was of opinion, the House had already gone too far to talk of stopping in limine. They had already received a petition, which was at least sufficiently strong. He could not in his own mind conceive any thing stronger than the petition by the inhabitants of Westminster, who had told the House that they had offered a gross indignity to them. He thought the House had better agree to the proposition of his honourable friend, that they might deliberately consider how far they would allow that power to be stretched, which certain persons had instilled it into the minds of the misguided people they had a right to carry to any length, by filling them with wild and absurd ideas of their rights. Though he was a friend to petitioning, this was a petition which he was inclined to think ought to be viewed with more than usual strictness. There was a disposition to deny that the House, as it was at present constituted, afforded a legal representa tion of the people. Against such a doctrine he protested, and contended that it 3 E England to come forward and complain of in the most determined, though becom doubts on this subject, though he confessed he had none. He was for receiving the present petition, however, because he thought it was not so offensive as the petition from the inhabitants of Westminster, which had been received. was equal to the discharge of those duties which it owed to the country in the consideration of its affairs both abroad and ating language. Great authorities had their home. He felt infinitely more disposed, on a question of this kind, to coalesce with those who entertain this opinion, than with those who thought the representative system entirely corrupt, and that it should be destroyed. He agreed that the terms in which the Petition was conceived were extremely offensive; but they might be found, at the same time, to be only a repetition of what had found its way into so many other petitions. He thought it better, therefore, to assent to the proposition of his hon. friend, that the debate should be adjourned. Mr. Stephen thought the words of the petition conveyed a studied insult to the House. It would be strange if this House, the majesty of the people, was the only body in the kingdom which could be libelled with impunity; nay, which receiving petitions insulting to themselves, must be compelled to become the servile Mr. Wardle could not agree that any instruments of their own degradation and insult was meant to be offered to the disgrace. If the House were insulted by` House by the present petition. The pe- Resolutions, as an hon. gent. had supposed, tition which had been received from West- even those who denied their right to be minster contained no prayer; the present judges in their own case, must admit that contained not only a prayer, but an they might go into a court of law, and earnest request that the House would there obtain justice; but if they once recomply with the object of the petition. ceived on their own table a petition, in He had used the freedom in that House which they were insulted, no such redress to go to the full length the petitioners could be obtained. He agreed, however, now did, in expressing their opinion. with his learned friend who spoke last, in These sentiments he still, with submission thinking that the right of petitioning to the House, entertained. He had pre- should not be broken in upon till every sumed to deny that parliament had the gentleman had an opportunity of reading right which it had assumed and exercised. over the petition and comparing the obHe had been allowed to express that opi-jectionable paragraphs with the context. nion; and he submitted that the freeholders of Middlesex had the same right to express their opinion on the subject. It was quite possible by strong resolutions The Chancellor of the Exchequer, seeing to insult the House in the grossest manthose who agreed with him in principle ner, while, at the same time, the petition thought a delay necessary, though he to be presented to them should be con- himself was not a convert to that opinion, ceived in a way which might escape could have no objection to acceding to it. notice. The petitioners here had only Now he was on his legs, he begged to excandidly declared their opinions, as sub-plain the difference between the two pejects of this country were entitled to do. To his (Mr. Wardle's) mind, these sentiments were true throughout. He trusted, therefore, that the petition would be received. Mr. Abercromby was of opinion the petition ought to be received, because he did not think the words were such a departure from the respect to the House as should warrant them in rejecting it. If the petitioners were of opinion that the House had acted illegally, he did not see in what other terms they could have expressed themselves, than by declaring that such was their opinion. If the House had acted thus illegally, it would be a grievance which it was the duty of the people of He recommended to the House therefore to accede to the motion for adjourning the debate till to-morrow. titions, and shew that the hon. gent. (Mr. Lambe) was not correct in the deduction he had made. The ground on which the former petition was received was repeatedly stated in the debate, and was precisely this; that as the sentence containing the accusation of a gross insult being offered, might apply to the officer executing the Speaker's warrant, it was but fair to put the most favourable construction upon a petition from the subject. He agreed that they must receive petitions against their acts, but, at the same time, they would take care in what language they were couched. They would take care that they were petitions, and not papers to dictate to the House what they ought to do. They might ask a revision of the judgment of the legislature; but they were not, as in the present case, to set up a petitioner's authority against the authority of the House, and call imperiously for a change, not for a re-consideration. While he, therefore, acceded to the adjournment, he would be ready either now, or at any other time, to contend that this petition, from its language, scope, and design, was such, as they neither could, nor ought to admit to lie on their table, as a perpetual insult. Sir John Newport said, he was of opinion that the debate should be adjourned. He thought the prayer of the petition obviated any objection to the first clauses of it. He only stated this that all parts of it should be taken into consideration together. He would not contend, but that there were strong and wrong expressions in the outset of this petition; but when all parts were compared together, he could not see an objection to its being laid on the table. Mr. Byng stated, that he was at a loss to know how his constituents could express their opinions better than they had done. They conceived the House had assumed a power which they thought was not vested in them. His constituents were more strongly urged to this idea, from the conduct of it, in the case of Mr. Wilkes, where they expunged their former Resolutions, knowing them to be illegal, from their Journals. Mr. Hutchinson said, he would vote for the adjournment. He thought this was a question that formed part of a measure, which had not been yet decided on, and must remain for a decision, until a jury of the country had formed an opinion. It was not his wish to enter into the merits of the point, as it would, in another place, undergo a more able discussion. He hoped it was the intention of the House to meet the question fairly. He could not see the objection to a petition which went to the purpose of bringing forward a most justifiable regulation. If he thought it was the intention of the people to enforce it by violence, he would be one of the first to oppose them; but when they legally petitioned, he would be the first to support them. He wished, to know in what statute it was held out to petitioners, how they should word their petition. He knew there was a certain mode of heading and ending it, and with this the present applicants had complied. The paragraph which the outcry of the night bore against, did not deserve it, for it had been assumed by the House, and acknowledged by hon. gentlemen in their places. The question for adjourning the debate was then put and agreed to. HOUSE OF LORDS. Thursday, May 3. [KING'S MESSAGE RELATIVE TO THE DUKE OF BRUNSWICK.] His Majesty's Message having been read, recommending a provision to be made for his serene highness the duke of Brunswick, The Earl of Liverpool rose to move an Address to his Majesty, assuring his Majesty of the cheerful concurrence of that House, in promoting the object of his most gracious Message. He could not imagine it to be in any degree necessary to resort to argument upon which to ground the propriety of the Address which he intended to move. The House would feel the strength and the number of the claims which the illustrious person to whom the Message referred must be acknowledged to have on the feelings of affection, gratitude, and respect of this country. These claims he might reduce to three heads: the near relationship of the duke of Brunswick to his Majesty; the misfortunes that had befallen him in common with many other of the sovereigns of Europe; and above all, that gallant struggle, and the brilliant atchievements which his serene highness had displayed in the defence of his dominions, and in furtherance of the common cause. He was sensensible it would not require any further considerations than those he had just enu, merated, to induce their lordships to give their hearty concurrence to the Address he should now propose. The noble earl concluded with moving an Address to the effect we have already mentioned. Lord Holland did not rise to oppose the motion. On the contrary, he was ready to admit the three claims which the noble secretary had set forth as belonging to his serene highness the duke of Brunswick. His object in rising was to advert to the fund from which the proposed provision was to be taken. During the course of. the last 12 or 15 years, it had too much been the custom to bring down Messages of that nature; all of which went to impose additional burthens on the civil list. In his opinion, as the misfortunes of the duke of Brunswick had arisen from the extraordinary events of the present war, and the present state of Europe, so ought | driven to a vote in the first instance, before the relief to be applied to them to be de- his feelings had time to cool, and his rived from funds which increase in propor- judgment to act. After the lapse of such tion to the extraordinary events of the time, and the advantage of the reflection war. Such were the Droits of Admiralty; which it permitted, he was sorry to say, and that, in his opinion, would be the that he felt himself constrained to vote proper fund from which to take the pro- against the petition. He did not wish to vision proposed to be made for his serene throw any obstacle in the way of petitionhighness. It was not only the proper ing, or to limit that right which he consifund from which such provisions should dered so essential to the liberties of the be furnished; but here he was certain that people. On the contrary, he was desithe deriving of it from such a fund would rous of throwing open the doors of the be more acceptable to the feelings of his House as wide as possible, to their com serene highness, than if it should be taken plaints and applications; there was no from the civil list, to which so many aids allegation in such petitions into which he had of late been granted; but that more would refuse to enquire; no argument attention should be paid to the compact to which he would not listen, and there and agreement entered into at his Majes- was scarcely any request which he would ty's accession on this head. He should not be disposed to attend to; but this not press these observations on the present which was now before them, he felt it his occasion, but merely throw them out as duty to refuse; because it was not a pehints to guide the future conduct of the tition, but a protest against the authority House respecting messages of this nature. of the House; it was not an application, The Earl of Liverpool would not enter but a menace. He could not conceive into any discussion of the general topics what the object of it was, unless that the dwelt upon by the noble lord, and the petitioners wished to try how far they more so, as they did not touch on the per- could go in abusing and insulting the sonal question before their lordships, or to House of Commons. If the real object the claims of the duke of Brunswick to the had been to induce the House to revise its provision recommended in his Majesty's proceedings in the cases of Gale Jones message. He should be ready on any and sir F. Burdett, and to recommend an other occasion to meet the discussion of early attention to parliamentary reformthe points to which the noble lord had they would have carefully expressed thought proper to refer. themselves in a language not likely to be rejected, but he perceived it was the purpose, continually apparent, to trench upon the privileges, and depreciate the authority of the House of Commons. There was no assertion more grossly unThursday, May 3. true, or more dangerous, than to say that [MIDDLESEX PETITION FOR THE RELEASE the House of Commons maintained privi OF SIR F. BURDETT, &c.-ADJOURNED DE- leges contrary to law, and subversive BATE.] Mr. Barham moved the order of of the rights of the people. What, he the day for resuming the adjourned de- would ask, were the privileges of that bate upon the Middlesex Petition: which House, but the privileges of the people ?— having been agreed to, he again rose-privileges which, he declared individually He said, that though the attendance of the for himself, he would chearfully resign; members was not such as he could wish, but he considered them the privileges of considering the importance of the subject the people, and, therefore, he could not before them; yet it was satisfactory to consent that those privileges, as they now' reflect, that any decision to which they existed in that House, should be abandoned. would now come, must carry with it He could not consent that the dignity of greater weight, than if it had been come to the people should be lessened, and, thereon the former night; it could not now before, he would support the dignity of that imputed to precipitancy or heat, nor attacked as a proceeding, adopted without consideration, and a mature acquaintance with the subject. Every man must feel himself more happy in voting under the present circumstances, than if he had been The motion for the Address was then agreed to. HOUSE OF COMMONS, House. He lamented extremely that there were members who lent themselves to the clamours of popular faction, and joined in this species of insult to the House of Commons, and in the endeavour to compel the House to abandon its pri vileges; but those men seemed little aware of the consequences to which their conduct directly tended; for if once those factions, to which they had lent themselves as the tools, should be successful in their real object, which was the complete subversion of all existing authorities, those very men would be the very first victims of the storm they aided to raise, and would be swept away like chaff before the wind. Those parties, with whom such men unfortunately combined themselves, knew much better than they did the true purpose they had in view. They knew that, when the privileges of that House were dissolved in effect, the power of the crown, and the monarchy itself, which the privileges of that House equally limited and protected, would speedily be dissolved also. The infallible consequence of destroying the authority of the House of Commons, would be either to substitute in the place of our happy constitution, an absolute monarchy, or else a republic. But a republic in this country, would, as all other republics, ancient and modern, had done, end in a military despotism. Such was the consequence, in all ages; it was inevitable. The French revolution had taught no new lessons; it was but a recent illustration of what had often been illustrated before, and it was impossible to contemplate it, without feeling, in its full force, the absurdity of any attempt at republican government, and the horror of any revolutionary speculation, He could not help thinking, that those who supported such doctrines as had been of late avowed, were either wilful deceivers, or voluntary dupes. It was his wish, however, that the House, even on the rejection of this petition, should not adopt any precipitate measure likely to excite in the public mind a spirit of irritation, or afford a handle to those who wished to represent that House as hostile to the rights of the people, or inclined to reject their petitions when offered in decorous language. He could wish the House to adopt, on this occasion, some resolution expressive of this sentiment, that the House of Commons was never unwilling to receive the petitions of the people, nor to attend to the prayers of those petitions; but that the House could not record upon its Journals, under the name of a petition, that which was in fact, a protest against its own authority. He could wish that some gentleman, more competent than himself, would assume the task of framing such a Resolution, to which he should be happy in giving his support; but still he thought that a mere rejection of this petition, without a full discussion of the subject, would not be enough. The House had a right to demand of all its members a bold avowal of their sentiments, in order to strengthen its hands for the maintenance of its privileges. He felt that this was not a time for a mere negative performance of duty: but that it was a time to speak openly and act decisively. He had therefore thought it his duty to state his reasons for opposing the reception of this petition. But while he felt himself justified in attaching blame to the framers and supporters of the petition, he did not think that all the blame was theirs; much was also to be ascribed to another quarter, to ministers themselves. They had often been warned that they went too much against the sense and feeling of the people; but the warning was in vain. They had resorted to similar expedients, for the purpose of exciting a popular cry, when that popular cry made in favour of themselves, or of the narrow and bigotted principle upon which they wished to stand. No wonder that it was now turned against them. Their conduct, in every part of it, was calculated to produce the dissatisfaction which unhappily prevailed; they had disregarded the voice of the people, they had mocked them with sham inquiries upto this very day. They had resisted every proposition for inquiry, in order to the reform of public abuses; and where they were found to concede inquiry, delinquency, when discovered, was protected rather than punished. Even upon a recent occasion, when a member of that House, either deservedly or undeservedly, rendered himself obnoxious to the popular feeling, how did his Majesty's ministers mark their regard to public sentiment ? Why; by instantly covering that memher with honours and rewards! [The hon: member alluded to Mr. Yorke]. He de sired to be understood as not speaking from any animosity to that gentleman: but he thought the present not a fit time for such a conduct on the part of ministers. Not content, however, with incur. ring for themselves the popular odium, they had also endeavoured by their language to transfer that odium to those who had constantly opposed their obnoxious measures, and never ceased to cry out against the ruinous tendency of such men |