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Society of 10,0001, which was not to be standings. The rules that circunscribed incorporated into the funds usually granted the authority of the Speaker in that house, to that instiłution, but to be left at the dis- and precluded him from a double voice, posal of that society, to enable them to and a casting voice only in the case of a pariafford encouragement and support to simi- ty of votes, were, he thought, in direct analar institutions in the interior of the coun. logy, though he admiited the differeice of try, and particularly a society that had that bouse being a legislative, and the been established at Cork for tlie same ob- other merely a judicial tribunal. It was jects. It was then ordered that Estimates to be remembered, however, that it was of the Expences of the several Charitable the only court in the empire in which the Institutions in freland, should be laid before presiding member had a. double voice, the house, after which the hon, baronet He left it to the house to form its own presented the several Estimates, which judgment on the circumstances of the case, were ordered to lie on the table, and to be and decide upou the propriety of the bill printed. --Ordered, on the motion of Mr. he now moved for. He then moved, Johnstone, that there be laid before the " That leave be given to bring in a bill to house an account of the fucone and alter and amend the Act of the both of Charges of the Consolidated Fund for the the king for the better Regulating the Triyears ending the 5th of Jan. 1806, and als upon Controverted Elections. 5th Jan. 1807, distinguishing each quar- Mr. Bankes said, that ilie cause of comter.
plaint was of such a kind, and the mode (GRENVILLE ELECTION ACT.! Mr. which the learned gent. meant to propose for Simeon, pursuant to notice, rose to move its redress, was such, that he thought the law for leave to bring in a bill to amcad cer- was preferable as it now stood; he should tain parts of the said act. He was wil therefore oppose the motion upon the preling to yield every tribute of jusi praise sent occasion, as he thought it was reedto the act in question, which went in some less to encourage a bill to be brougit in, anzasure to immortalize iis author; great, which was so likely to be thrown out in however, as were unquestionably its merits, some future stage. The case stated, was it was yet, like all other things human, not one which very seldom occurred. The act perfect. The object of the proposed bill bad put it into the most convenient of ail would be, to remove perhaps its only im- fori!ıs, liecause the decision was left to be perfection. In a late case (alie Maldon determined by the casting or double vote petition the chairman of the commilice of ile chairman; who was naturally lookhad not only a casting voice, but a double ed up to ou account of liis abilities, integrione. In mentioning this, it was far from ty, and other qualifications which distinhis wish or intention to insinuate the slight- guished him. The learned gent. seemed est ref.ection upon the gentlemen who 10 imply, that this very man who was so composed that tribunal, but what occasioned held up to notice, on account of thie necesa double vole ia khai committee, might pro- sary qualifications, should be the only one duce the same citect in any other. The who should be deprived of the ability unavoidable absence of one of the 15 to give a double vote, should it happen to members might produce a parity of voting, be necessary. He saw no remedy in thus arid thus involve the committee in this di- taking away the vote of the chairman. Jemma; they must decide upon the issue | The general maxim of law was, that there before them, or they must not; if they did should be an end put to a dispute by not decide, justice slept; if they did, one of the judicature to which it was originally the 14 had a double vote. Besides, as submitted, and therefore it was better to the chairman of sucl: committees was gene- take the decision of the committee as at rally a man whom the rest of the commit- present constituted, than that it should be tee biad preserred for some superiority in suspended altogether. The chairman was certain qualitications, for talents, good bound to perform the same duties, and to sense, address, arising from babits of busi- take the same oath, as other members of ness, &c. there might be found in some the committee were; and why should not committees men of that diffident cast of the decision depend upon his vote, as well mind that would induce them to look ra- as upon others, the more especially as he ther to the decision of that chairman, than was the one who paid the most particular consult the suggestions of their own under attention to the subject?
Mr. Simeon explained. He never meant a mere nonentity. Supposing that a comthat justice should be asleep by the deci- mittee were to be reduced to 14, by the sion being suspended. He meant only, that indisposition of any one of their number, in no case should the chairman Lole, ex. would his learned friend propose to have the cept in cases of equality, where 7 of the natier decided, by giving a casting or other members had voted on each side ; touble vote to one of those 7, with whom and that in no case should lie have a The chairman was not united in opinion, in double vote.
preti rence to having it determived by the Mr. C. W. Wynne concurred entirely others, with who'n be agreed! Why not with the hon. gent. who had spoken last, give a double vote to the chairman, as well and who had anticipated almost everything as to any of the other members of a coulthat he had meant to say on the subject. mitee, when found necessary? The analogy between the practice of that Mr. Simeon here rose, and said, thai as house and that of the committee did not lie plainly saw the opinion of the bouse was seem to him to apply. It was essential to difierent from bis own, he should withdraw the dignity of the house, that the opinions the motion he liad proposed-It was acof their Speaker should not be known, as cordingly withdrawn. his interference must thereby possess far Lord Folkestone hoped, that the fate of greater weight and authority. The com- the motion which had just been disposed mittee appointed their own chairman; he as of, would not have any influence upon that well as the rest, being sworn to a faithful which he rose to make. The object of his discharge of the trust reposed in them; and motion was to make the notices at present he believed, there was no instance for the required by an order of that house, respect30 years that the act had existed, of a ing the entering into recognizances, a part charge of partiality being even allerlged of the law. The house would be more against any one committee. He could not, disposed to agree to his bill, as the effect therefore, see any propriety, in altering the of it would be to put an end to its interfelaw, or in saying that the person best qua- rence iv such cases, on applications for exlified to judge on such an occasion, as the tending the tinse for receiving recognizan. chairman must naturally be presumed to ces. He therefore moved for leave to be, should alone be precluded from speak- bring in a bill to alter and amend so much ing and voting equally with ihe rest of the of the act of the 281h of his majecty, as committee.
relates to Recognizances. The Attorney-General said, that he con- Mr. C. Wynne did not think the object ceived the election laws to be of such very of the noble lord's measure corresponded great importance, that the house sirould with its title. It would not alter nor amend hear some very cogent reasons indeed the act of the 28th of the king, because urged, before they even allowed a bill to be there was no mention of notices in that act, brought in. He believed bis learned friend's neither was there any provision in it, rea motives were pure and sincere; but as the specting the time for presenting petitions. subject had engaged much of bis (the At These matters were settled by the regulatoruey-General's) altention, he found hini- tions of that house, which all parties who self to be of a very different opinion. In came before it as petitioners, were bound courts of law, the judges were frequently to make themselves acquaiuted with. As equally divided in opinion, and cousequent- there did not appear to bim to be any nely not able to decide ; but ancient usage cessity for an act of parliament on the subhad been so much respected, that nobody ject, or to make the other house of Parliahad ever thought proper to propose any ment a party to the orders by which the alteration in their constitution. In the year proceedings of that house were to be regu1775, Mr. Grenville brought in that act, lated, he should oppose the motion-Tije which gave the casting vote to the president motion was then negatived without a diviof committees, and even where the numbers sion. were equal, no case of unjust or improper (FOREIGN PROPERTY IN THE FUNDS.) partiality had occurred. His learned friend Mr. Bankes rose pursuant to notice. He seemed to aim at theoretical and unattaina- was happy after the fate of the two last mo ble perfection. He appeared inclined to tions, to be able to state that he had one render the very person who was likely to to make, which was not likely to meet with be most intelligent amongst that committee, any opposition. The document for which he
was to move, was a very important one, government. But, as he should very soon and was very material to the house to have have an opportunity of stating his opinion on its table, in order that gentlemen might on the general question respecting the. perceive how far the strength and resour: finances of the country, he should then conces of this country were supported by its tent himself with moving, That there be own property and means, and whether the " laid before the house an account of the property of foreigners in our funds was "amount of all Exemptions granted to Foconsiderable or insignificant. He had also“ reigners, in respect of the duty on Divianother view in bringing forward his mo- “ dends, in the various public funds of tion, namely, that it might he brought un- “ Great Britain, and on the duty on Divider the consideration of the house, how far “ dends on Souih Sea and East India the exemption of the property of foreign “stock, under the Property tax, for the ers from the property tax was, or was“ year ending Lady Day, 1806." not expedient. He did not meau then Lord Henry Petty thought it might be to enter into any argument upon the more satisfactory to the bon. gent. to liave subject, but he was inclined to think the account made up to a later date, as that the exception of the property of fo- well as more likely to answer the object he reigners from the tax had been founded on had in view. He was not aware that the a mistake, and that ihis would be made account could be furnished to a later date, manifest when the subject should come to but wonld assure the hon. gent. and the be reviewed. He had framed his motion house, that it upon enquiry lie found that not so much with a view to this object, as to be the case, the account should he preon the precedent of a similar motion ihat scuted. The information called for by the had been made last year. As an indulgence hon. gent. was such, that however he might had been granted to foreigners, he was of differ from him as to the result to be drawn opinion that they would not be slow in from it, be thought it ought, and could not claiming it, and that, therefore, the docu- | with propriety be kept froin the house. ment he was to call for might be easily As the hon. gent. had with so much candour prepared. He took this opportuuity of as stated, that the opinion entertained by hiin serving that his opinion on this subject re- last session on this subject remained unalmained the same asit was last session; and so tered, he thought it not amiss to declare, far from having been in the slightest degree that upon the best reflection lie could bealtered, it had been strengthened by consistow upon the question, he could see no deration and reflection. Ile still continued reason for changing the opinion he had on to think that the property of foreigners that occasion expressed of the propriety of should be subject to the tax. This was granting the exemptions to the property of but an act of justice to our own subjects, to foreigners in the funds. He was contirmed shew where the burthen of the tax fell, and in the opinion, when he considered the small could not be construed into a severity up- assistance that could be derived from es. on foreigners, who invested their money in tending the tax to such property, and the our funds for its security, not for our ad- indirect but great mischief that would revantage. If they enjoyed the protectio.1, sult from adopting the suggestious of the they ought to contribute in a just propor- hon. gent. At the same time he was ready tion to its maintenance. He would not to admit, that whenever the question was have it understood, however, that he was brought forward, he should be open to pledged to bring forward any motion on the arguments that be kuew would be ably the subject, because such a proceeding urged by the hon. gent. As to the expewould, in a great degree, depend upon the diency of bringing forward motions without support it would receive, and principally any prospect of success, and the beneficial upon the opposition it would meet withi. consequences of repeated discussions, be At the same time he was of opinion, that, trusted that the present session of parliathough a motion might not lead to a suc- ment would afford an instance (the Abolicessful result, there was often much advan- tion of the Slave Trade) of the advantages tage derived from the frequent discussions and happy results of discussions upon reitthat took place even upon motions that erated motions.--The account was then ormight have been finally unsuccessful. He dered up to the latest period, to which it did not by any means propose to bring for could be made out. ward this question from views hostile to
HOUSE OF LORDS.
was the only means of preventing those evils Tuesday, February 10.
which must otherwise necessarily result [SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL.] from the multiplication of slaves in the The order of the day for the third reading
West Indies. of the bill for the Abolition of the Slave
The Duke of Norfolk approved of the Trade, being read,
bill, and expressed a confidence that the Lord Redesdale rose, and observed, that planters would by a moderate treatment however the preamble of this bill might set of their slaves, contribute to bring about out, that the African Slave Trade was un
that state of the colonies which was so just, inhuman, and impolitic, and, however much to be desired. it might be considered unjust, inhuman, and
The Earl of Westmoreland was at a loss impolitic, to emancipate the Slaves in the to understand upon what principle of logic West Indies, yet he considered the present it was to be proved, that if the slave trade measure would be the means of producing, was contrary to justice and humanity, it in the West India Islands, all the horrors was not also contrary to justice and humaof a revolution that could possibly be con- nity to keep the negroes who had been ceived. The Abolition of the African Trade, procured by means of the trade, in a state he considered, should go hand in hand with of perpetual slavery. He was not so mad that in the West India Islands; and how- as to think that liberty ought to be given ever desirable an object the total abolition to the slaves in the West Indies: but he of the trade might be, he yet considered contented, that upon the principles upon this instantaneous abolition, not only dan- which the abolition was now founded, gerous in itself, but likely to be productive emancipation ought also to follow. If it of no particular good. As the bill stood was however determined finally to abolish at present, he could not give his assent to the trade, it might at least be conceded to it, however he might be inclined to support the feelings of the planters, and of those it upon general principles ; had it been a concerned in the trade, to erase the words, different description of bill, and went gra- declaring it to be contrary to justice and dually to a general abolition of this traile, humanity. It was thought, however, by it should then have met with his hearty some of the supporters of the bill, that by concurrence. He felt, that any attempt to retaining these words, foreign powers might withstand the present enthusiasm upon this be humbugged, if he might use the expressubject would be in vain; but he could not sion, into a concurrence in the abolition. help remarking, that when a legislature This, however, he did not think at all pracacted enthusiastically, they did not always ticable, and it was surely a consideration of act wisely, and he did not think that in the expediency, whether at a time when the faithful and conscientions discharge of their continent of Europe was nearly shut against duty, the opposers of this measure had much us, we should put an end to our trade with to answer for.
the continent of Africa, and hy so doing, The Earl of Buckinghamshire denied greatly injure and distress many persons, that the support which had been given to and deprive many more of the means of this measure, was to be attributed to mere subsistence. feelings of enthusiasm. Mere enthusiasm Lord Grenville was glad to find that was not calculated to last for 20 years, the opponents of this measure were nearly during which period this measure had been reduced to one argument, and that was, under discussion. It was, on the contrary, that the bill did not extend to the emanin his opinion, founded clearly on the cipation of the slaves already on the islands. grounds of justice and humanity, as well The attempted application, however, of the as upon a mature consideration of the pre- same justice and humanity to both cases, sent state of the West Indies.
resolved itself into this. In abolishing the member of the house of commons in the trade we did justice to the inhabitants of year 1792, he voted for a gradua! abolition, Africa, who were the parties aggrieved, but conceiving that the persons concerned in the in giving liberty to the slaves on the islands, trade ought to bave sufficient notice. Now, we should do the greatest injustice to them however, he had no doubt that the trade in giving them that which they would not ought to be immediately abolished, not know how to use, and which would only only because it was contrary to justice and be productive to them of injury. That lie kuwanity, but also because the abolition berty, the blessings of which we were ena
bled properly to estimate and appreciate, cedent and example of the motion of 1797, would be to them, in their state of igno- I find, that at that period, the appointment fauce and barbarism, a poison of the most of a Committee of Finance to investigate baleful nature-The bill was then read a public establishments, and to sift official third time, passed, and ordered to be sent abuses, was considered the best and most to the House of Commons.
appropriate metbod of proceeding. That my present object would be best attained
by moving for the appointment of a similar HOUSE OF COMMONS.
committee, I am inclined to conclude; parTuesday, February 10.
ticularly when I consider the advantage like[MINUT PS.) On the notion of lord ly to result from an attentive persual of the Howick, the call of the house, which stood valuable documents of the fornier, from the for this day, for the purpose of insuring a light which the labour and industry of that suficient attendance of members to form committee have actually thrown on the subthe ballot for the Maidstove Election con-ject, and, tinally, froni the eventual good, mittee, was deferred to Thursday. On the which the applicatiou of that information, motion of lord Howick, it was ordered, that assisted by the result of the intermediate the Prev. M. Marlow, D. D. be desired to time and circumstances, must in any future preach before the bo:ise on the 25th instant, inquiry produce. There were certainly the day of Public Fast. The following are many impediments, and difficulties of no the naines of the gentlemen on the reduced trifling nature, in the way of that commitlist, formiog the committee to try the merits tee. To some of their inquiries, they found of the electiou and return for the Bo- it impossible to get even an answer; and rough of Maidstone. _Hon. W. Maule, in some cases, particularly those connected J. Vaughan, esq. Hon. F. Robinson, Hon. J. with Scotland, they were not only kept iu Cust, John Patteson, esq. John Palmer, esq. igriorance of the necessary' answers to their W. Loftus, esq. J. Fuller, esq. Hon. E. interrogatories, but were absolutely renderStewart, G. T. Steward, esq. Sir M. B. ed incapable of extending their researches, Foukes, T. Godfrey, esq. T. Shelly, esq. from the obscurity and vaguevess in which The parties having waved their right of ap- such objects of their inquiry were involved. pointing nominees, the committee retired, ac- Without troubling the house with any gene cording to the provision of the act of parlia- ral reasoning on the nect ssity of adopting a ment in such case, and themselves chose sir measure of the nature I propose, I will at R. Peel, and the hon. W. Pole. The whole present confine myself to the statement of were then sworu at the table.
some particular cases, and be satisfied with SINECURE PLACES AND PENSIONS.] drawing the attention of the house to those Mr. Biddulph rose and spoke as follows: immense emoluments which are attached to I rise, sir, in pursuance of the notice I had offices in the Exchequer, and to other the honour of giving on a former night, to branches of the national establishment, in submit to the consideration of the house, a the investigation of which, the appointment motion, connected with a system of econo- of a committee, founded on a Resolution my, and, in its import, similar to that pro. similar to that of 1797, would, in my posed by an hon. friend of mine in the opinion, be calculated to produce great and year 1797. In introducing this motion, I important benefits. The first thing that can with truth affirm, that my mind is strikes the public mind, as requiring retrenchtotally uninfluenced by those passions which ment, is the immense emoluments enjoyed may be supposed to agitate public men, in by some individuals in the department of bringing forward plans of retrenchment in the Exchequer. It is difficult to make the the national expenditure, or motious for public believe that the grants of these the reduction of places and pensions. The emoluments are unalterable, and there are strong conviction in my mind, that a great circumstances which induce me to think practical benefit would result to the country, they are not. The act of parliament of and to the revenue of the country, is the 1782 allowed to two of the Tellers of the most striking inducement with me for sub- Exchequer the antient fees of their offices, mitting my motion to the consideration of but limited the other two to a salary of the liouse. How that benefit would be 40001. a year. This act did nothing more best procured, has also been the subject of than to leave the fees on thebasis of the regumy inquiry, and in referring to the pre-lations and practice of the Exchequer. *