he (Mr. Lethbridge) had lent himself as an instrument in this business to his majesty's ministers. If he had so lent himself, he should never cease to regret it as long as he lived. He had not, however, lent himself to any man, nor to any set of men. The motion he brought forward had originated in his own mind, and he had been induced to engage in the proceeding upon considerations of his own. to proceed, therefore, in this instance, it was his intention, nay, he had no alternative, he must be compelled to vote against the motion. If time, however, should be allowed to gentlemen to make themselves fully acquainted with the whole of the case, he was persuaded that in such a case there could exist but one opinion upon the subject, and that the decision of the House would be unanimous. As to the Mr. Curwen was ready to avow that he right of the House to commit them for should have deprecated the discussion of contempt, that was a privilege which it such a question as that under considera- necessarily must have; but it was also a tion and at such a moment. It was im- privilege which should seldom be exerpossible that, at a time when the House cised, never except in cases where it was was so wholly occupied with the conside- actually necessary to assert the dignity ration of another grave and momentous and to maintain the authority of the House. subject, that they could be in a state to All he asked of the House, therefore, was, pronounce a cool and deliberate decision that he should not be pressed to a decision upon this question. On a motion such in the unprepared state in which he felt as that, which the House was then dis- himself to decide justly. It would have cussing, it was highly desirable that been much better that this paper had never neither individual feelings of partiality, been noticed, as in that case, he conceiv. nor party considerations should influ- ed that it would have soon sunk into ob ence their judgment. That was not a mo- livion; but as it had been brought under ment to bring such feelings into a discus- the cognizance of the House, the honour of sion upon a subject like that before the the House required that some step should House; and he should call upon the right be taken respecting it. With this opinion hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to strongly impressed upon his mind, it was pause, and to consider the consequences his wish not to be forced to a crude and that might result from adopting any pre- premature decision. And if many other cipitate course on the present occasion. gentlemen were, like himself, ready to It was impossible for that right hon. gent. avow that they were not prepared to come not to see the consequences that must in- to a vote upon the question, he would put evitably flow from any hasty proceeding it to the House whether it was consistent upon a question arising out of a breach with justice or decency to force them to of privilege, which might alarmingly it? Never had any question been discussagitate the public mind from one end ed in that House which called for more of the country to the other. For him- temper, more consideration, or was more self, he could most conscientiously state intimately and essentially connected with that he had not yet made up his mind upon the honour and character of the House. the question; and if he should be com- He should again, therefore, conjure the pelled to vote on that occasion, he must right hon. gent. not to hurry on the ques say, that it was absolutely impossible for tion to a decision. A little time would him to vote for the motion. Were he to clear away the difficulties with which it vote for that motion, he should be bound was at present enveloped, and lead to an to vote also for the strong reprehension opening to measures which might, perhaps, of the House being expressed respecting substitute conciliation for severity. In the author of the paper upon which the his own opinion, the hon. baronet was in motion was founded. But the matter some degree deserving of the reprehension would not rest there. The House would of the House, but that might be so manag be obliged to resort to some strong ulterior ed as neither to compromise the dignity of measures; and before they should be the House, nor transgress the bounds of driven to that awful necessity, it behoved justice and moderation. He would ask the them well and seriously to consider whe-right hon. gent. how he could answer, at ther the paper complained of really contained matter calling for the adoption of measures, from which might arise such a feeling in the country, as he, for one, would most sincerely deprecate. If forced a period when unanimity was more than ever desirable, for the irritation and heated feelings which any other course would be likely to produce in the country? If notwithstanding, the right hon. gent case, he called upon the House of Commons to allow a small portion of time for the more mature consideration of this most serious and important question. should persist in pushing on the decision, who, since he had the honour of a seat in on him alone should rest all the responsi- it, had never been influenced by any feelbility for the consequences. He was well ings of private attachment, or party inteaware of the sound mind and good sense of rests-who had uniformly, on all occathe people of this country; and though he sions, and under all circumstances, given would allow they might be led astray by his vote to the best of his judgment, and deception or passion, he was yet convinc- according to the dictates of his conscience, ed that, if that House would shew that it with a view to the common interests of the was actuated only by a sense of its own country-who felt himself unprepared at dignity, without any regard to more par- present to give any vote satisfactory to his tial and confined considerations, the na- own mind, but who was anxious to protion would cheerfully acquiesce in its deci-nounce judgment on the real merits of the sion. But in order to produce this effect, it was necessary to prove to the public that, in the exercise of its power or privileges, that House was not influenced by any feeling against an individual, but really and sincerely consulting its own dignity and character. On every ground, therefore, it was his opinion that they ought to proceed calmly, deliberately, and dispassionately on this question. The House could not but recollect, that, in consequence of being led away by a contrary feeling, its Journals had been disgraced by proceedings which, though subsequently expunged by a succeeding House, would ever reflect discredit upon that which had sanctioned them. He alluded to the proceedings against Mr. Wilkes, in which, by giving way to the influence of feelings of hostility towards the individual, the House had been carried into a course of proceeding subversive of the fundamental principles of its constitution. Though parliament had afterwards expunged from its journals the record of these oppressive and unconstitutional measures, still the remembrance of what then passed survived, and should be a warning to all future parliaments, not to give way to such feelings, or precipitately to decide upon questions of a similar description. He had been one of those, who voted against all the arbitrary measures which had been resorted to on that occasion; and, on the same principle, now besought the right hon. gent. not to press precipitately forward the ultimate decision upon a question of so much importance to the reputation and honour of that House. He trusted the example to which he had alluded would never be imitated. If the House were to come to a decision upon this question it should be such a decision as would be consistent with justice to the individual and a proper regard to the dignity of the House. No such decision however, could, in the present instance, be impartially or dispassionately pronounced. As a member of that House, therefore, Mr. Owen hoped that the House would decide, and that without further delay, upon the question under discussion. The real question now now was, whether the House was to suffer itself to be intimidated, whether any man should henceforth be at liberty to reflect most grossly upon its rights and privileges? He trusted, therefore, that the House would have the courage to assert its unquestionable rights, and not compromise its character by deferring the decision of the question before them. He felt astonishment at the amendment which had been moved: but he had been still more astonished at hearing the right hon. gent. (Mr. Sheridan), whom he had been accustomed to listen to with respect upon all constitutional subjects, represent the present as a question of no urgent nature or importance. (Hear, hear.) He could assure gentlemen that he was not to be intimidated from doing his duty. The right hon. gent. had certainly said that the question was not of any urgency. The hon. gentleman who followed, had however on the contrary stated, that in his opinion this question was of much more moment than the discussion of the merits of the Expedition to Walcheren. The question, in his mind, whether his Majesty's ministers were culpable or not in the conduct of that Expedition, was not to be put in competition with a question, whether the House of Commons was to remain independent, whether it was to preserve its privileges and authority, or to be beat down by personal intimidation. Whether such attempts were to proceed from members of that House, or persons out of it, he trusted the House had courage enough to repress them. He agreed that this question was of ten times the importance of the discussion respect ing the Expedition. But the argument which had been urged for delay appeared to him extraordinary; as if indeed the delay of a few hours, before they should come to a decision on the discussion respecting the Expedition, would let the evidence out of the minds of gentlemen. The statement in the paper, which was the foundation of the charge, that the Bill of Rights was made a bill of wrongs, was sufficient to justify the House in proceeding. But that was not all; the paper stated that the exercise of the privileges of the House of Commons was subversive of the laws and constitution of the country. Was that a proposition to be passed over with impunity; was that a question, which they should not seize the earliest opportunity of deciding upon? It would have a very injurious effect upon the minds of the people, if the House of Commons should imprison a person not a member, for a libel, and not dare to notice one of its own members for the same offence. The decision upon this question would, he was confident, increase those sentiments of attachment to the constitution, which he knew to exist in the different parts of the country with which he was acquainted. He thought the passage in which it was asserted, "that that House lorded it over the king and the people," was a gross libel upon the House of Commons. He trusted, therefore, that the House would do its duty, and neither be intimidated by a fear of the people, nor influenced by feelings of respect for any individual, to defer the consideration of so important a question. Mr. Whitbread begged pardon of the hon. gent. who had just spoken, if he could not, in the outset of what he had to say, express himself with the same clearness in his own words, as by adopting the language of his right hon. friend (Mr.Sheridan) and saying, that he had never risen to speak on a subject of greater importance. Such were the words of his right hon. friend, which that hon. gent. had greatly mis-stated, when he said that his right hon. friend had represented the question as one of a light nature. It was because the subject was not light but momementous that he rose then to ask, as he had done last night, for some delay before he should be called upon for his vote. In justice to the hon. member who originated the motion, he must say that it was not his wish at first to proceed precipitately with the question. But to the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was mainly interested in the question already under discussion, a question, which the hon. gent. who had just sat down, considered comparatively light, was to be ascribed the precipitancy with which the discussion was pushed forward. The question which had so long occupied the whole attention of that House, so far from considering light, he regarded as one of the greatest moment, as well to his majesty's ministers as to himself. (Hear, hear, from the ministerial benches.) He despised such feelings as appeared to give rise to the cheer, and would repeat that the question was of moment to him, because it was desirable to every honest man to be allowed time to be in full possession of every thing that could enable him to form an impartial judgment. The House would give him credit, he was sure, when he said that the question before it was momentous though not pressing. He saw no reason why the same time should not be allowed now, as when the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the lord viscount Castlereagh were last session charged with a breach of the privileges of that House. The right hon. gent. would recollect, that when that charge had been first brought forward, he rose in his place, and after stating that he was taken by surprize, made his bow, and retired; after which a delay of five days was allowed before he made his defence. He had voted in the minority on that occasion; and to the de cision of the House in that instance, and the conduct of his Majesty's ministers, they were to look for the degra tion of the House of Commons in the opinion of the people. The House would also recollect the case when viscount Castlereagh was charged with bartering for a seat in that House, and was sheltered by the amendment of a right hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) not then in his place. That proceeding, coupled with the resolution of 1779, which made such a practice a breach of the privileges of that House, had mainly contributed to the lamentable degradation of parliament. He begged also to remind the House of the threat respecting the dissolution of parliament, thrown out by the same right hon. gent. shortly after he came into office, and of the realising of that threat soon after by the actual dissolution of parliament; and then to ask, to whom was the degradation of parliament to be attributed? On the present question then, of so much importance to the independence of that House, and man in the course he had taken; but he the interests of the nation, he asked for time must be allowed to add, that the hon. to consider it sufficiently. The same ap- member had allowed himself to be inplication he had made 24 hours before, fluenced by the Chancellor of the Excheand in the period that had since inter- quer, who had taken advantage of his favened, he had not had time to consider cility. The hon. member was willing the subject. In this respect the hon. gent. to allow time, but the right hon. gent. had opposite, and his hon. friend, had the ad- availed himself of this question as a Godvantage of him. He had marked the pas- send, in the same manner as a drowning sages specified by the hon. mover, but had man would catch at a straw, in the desperate not yet been able to look into them. In hope that it would afford him a short rethis situation, he could not think of decid-spite from the impending decision upon ing upon extracts made by any gentleman his conduct. however honourable, without being able to refer at the same time to the context. The House would recollect the nature of the speech of the gallant general (Craufurd) last night, who had produced a campaign of his own instead of the imaginary campaign of the noble lord, and concluded with an amendment expressive of the approbation of the conduct of his Majesty's ministers, without any one document or argument produced in their justification. Whilst the honourable and gallant general was proceeding through the details of his campaign, he could not but think that every hon. officer who had served on the Expedition would have wished for mountains to cover, or seas to overwhelm him, in order to escape the indignation of the public. When charged with a wish to delay the discussion on the conduct of the Expedition, the right hon. gent. (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) opposite had referred to his conduct during the whole of the investigation to prove the contrary. He was ready to admit, that the noble lord, not then in his place, (lord Castlereagh) had conducted himself with great propriety throughout the whole of these proceedings. But when the right hon. gent. referred to the papers not yet delivered from the printer's as furnishing, if he were so disposed, a cause of delay, he must observe that whatever might be the abilities of that right hon. gent., he could do but one thing at a time. It was the opinion of a great man, that that was the manner in which all things were done. As they were not pressed for time as to the present question, there was no ground for interrupting that in which the House had been previously engaged. When the notice of the motion had been given by the hon. gent., it was suffered to lie over for twenty-four hours. Why, then, not lie over for a longer period? He gave the hon. gent. (Mr. Lethbridge) credit, when he said, that he had not lent himselfe to any It was an old saying, that many things happened between the cup and the lip, so also did many things happen between the halter and the gallows. (Hear, hear!) He did not mean to say, if he was to go to the extremity, that the right hon. gent. was entitled to be beheaded, neither had he meant to apply the allusion to him. Gentlemen might recollect the case of a soldier, who, on the retreat in Spain, had been tried by a court martial for some heinous offence, and sentenced to be shot. The detachment of cavalry was drawn up for this execution; but, fortunately, the enemy came in sight; the cavalry escaped, the culprit was put on a horse, and fled with the rest, and so the whole ended.-As he trusted the House of Commons would never shew any fear, so also he hoped that it would not manifest either favour or partiality to any person. He thought the House, by acquitting the right hon. gentleman last session, had shewn such partiality, and thereby contributed to that degradation into which some persons supposed the public to consider it as fallen. The right hon. gent. had certainly not been charged with a breach of the privi leges of that House. Lord Castlereagh, however, had, and if not for the gentlemanly terms in which he made his excuse which disarmed the resentment of the House, and the amendment of a right hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) which gave rise to a coinage of a new word, in the language of the right hon. gent. "lest a mistakeable record should appear upon the journals," he must have been convicted. But the right hon. gent. desired that the House should not suffer itself to be intimidated. For himself, he could say, that he had never at any time been afraid to avow his sentiments. Yet at the same time that he would not be intimidated from ex pressing his sentiments, he would not be intimidated to act with a false courage, or to do a thing in order to shew that he durst do it; nor to do any thing, which, in his best conviction, he should not think right. If he were the only one who was not, and had not an opportunity to be, acquainted with the paper, then he might be the only one who should vote for adjourn ment, and on a ground which to him appeared unanswerable; but he had another ground, arising out of the good feelings of the hon. mover and seconder. When he heard these hon. gentlemen, in stating their sentiments, allude to combinations in that House, and the spirit of jacobinism out of it, he could scarcely believe that he was not listening to the organs of the late Mr. Yorke; (he begged pardon) of the late member for Cambridgeshire. This was the legacy bequeathed to that House by the Teller of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear!) That right hon. gentleman had made a complaint against John Gale Jones who made a respectful apology at the bar. (No, no!) As he was informed that person had conducted himself with becoming propriety and decorum at the bar, and on that ground it was his opinion at the time that he should be discharged. Every thing that had since been done on the subject tended, step by step, to make Jones a greater personage than he could other wise have hoped to become.-It was not his intention then to give any opinion as to the right of the House to commit for contempt; that opinion he had before stated, and it was not necessary for him to repeat it. He begged here however to return to what he had been drawn off from longer than he had intended; the allusions of the hon. gent. (Mr. Lethbridge) to combinations in that House. The hon. member had said that on hearing certain statements in that House, he was so affected that his hair stood on end. (A Laugh.) Now that the House knew that he had the gift of language (though indeed he had heard that hon. gent. before make a motion respecting double-barrelled guns) he trusted that he would not hereafter remain silent; but when he became sensible of this visible effect, suffer his moral to overcome his physical impressions, and move that the terrifying words be taken down. It would certainly be on every account desirable that he should not suffer the agitating words to remain in oblivion for three weeks, and then make the unfortunate utterer of them become the object of another charge, by bringing them in judgment against him. (Hear! hear!) He should appeal to that bench of lawyers VOL. XVI. whom he saw before him whether such a practice would be allowed in any court of justice: whether, on a trial for one offence, it would be tolerated to give in evidence a previous act which had never been questioned? He was bold enough to differ from the honourable baronet, though he must admit that he had not read his statement. He had heard the speech of that hon. baronet with attention, but without being convinced. That speech appeared to him an able one, but the great fault he found with it was, that his proposition would not, if agreed to, advance the object of the hon. baronet, one step. He also found fault with his having published in his Argument any thing which he had not stated in his speech, when he brought forward his proposition. Another complaint he had to make against the hon. baronet was, that when he published his Letter and Argument, he professed to publish the substance of his speech. He had read the Letter, and thought that there was nothing in it which any county member might not have addressed to his constituents. Having read the Letter, he put the Argument in his pocket, supposing it to be the same as the speech which he had heard. On coming down to the House, however, he was informed that a notice had been given of the motion by the hon. member. When he heard this, he thought that the matter would soon be over, as he did not think there was any thing exceptionable in the speech. But he was afterwards informed that there were many things in the Argument which were not in the speech; and it was upon the ground that he was not prepared to give an opinion upon any one of these new passages, that he wished for the adjournment of the discussion. It was impossible to to say that any one passage was a libel, without considering the whole, and ascertaining how each might be explained or modified by the context or other passages in the paper. That he should do, if allowed time to consider the paper; but if not, he should not be driven to vote for the Resolutions of the hon gent. As a juryman, and he looked upon the House as in that instance called upon to perform the functions of jurymen, he should, in case of any doubt, feel himself bound to pronounce the party innocent. Others were no doubt in the same situation with him; and he had ne hesitation in saying, that any hon. mẹmT |