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the acts of restraint a, d coercion had continued for fifty years, and it was only by a steady course of government upo these principles, that the discontents there were at length put an end t; bu then they could not be made the subject of par y politic here, as the source of these disconten's was in his part of the island treason. With respect, however, to mild and conciliatory measures, nothing could have satisfied the discontented in that country, but the restoration of the Pretender. It was only by a steady system of government, together with old prejudices wearing away, that at length the necessity for measures of coercion ceased, and the population of Scotland had since served his majesty with the utmost bravery and loyalty. The circumstances of the two countries were, however, materially different. It was only of late years that Scotland had been trusted with a national militia, whilst in Ireland there had long been a national militia of high character; and there was a brave and loyal yeomanry; a great number of the population of Ireland were likewise enlisted in the army. He did not wish to enter into a long discussion of the subject, he should merely observe, that wherever discontents existed, those discontents were not likely to be decreased by being made the subject of party politics. The necessity of this bill, from what was known of the state of Ireland, he conceived to be obvious.

The motion for the chairman leaving the chair was negatived.

Several clauses were then gone through without any amendment.

On the clause requiring persons to register their arms within one month after the first assizes,

The Earl of Hardwicke rose to make a few observations upon one of the clauses of the bill, which he conceived to be well entitled to their lordships' attention for, though he admitted the bill to be necessary, and nobody lamented the necessity more than he did, yet he thought it a matter of duty to mitigate the severity of the provisions of the bill, as far as was consistent with the efficacy of the law itself. By the clause to which he referred, any person having arms in their custody after the ensuing session for the county in which they reside, without having registered them, will be liable to a penalty of sen pounds, to be levied by sale of the gods and chat.els of such person by warrant of a magistrate, or in default of payment, to be imprisoned for

two

two months. In contemplation and construction of law, every person is bound to know the acts of the legislature, and no one can properly plead ignorance of the law. But when it is considered that the session will occur within a very few weeks of the passing of the act, that it is not held, as in England, at the courey town, but alternately in dif ferent parts of the country, in many instances, that even in this country acts of Parliament do not immediately reach. even persons of a superior description; and when to this is added, the remote situation of many parts of the counties of Ireland, Lord Hardwicke said, that he thought it would be proper and equitable for their lordships, either to extend the time of the penalty, or to ensure the effectual promul- . gation of the law, by providing for its circulation throughout the country.

Lord Redesdale agreed with the noble earl in his observations upon the propriety of providing for the due promulgation of the act, which would have been perfectly applicable if it had been a new law, instead of the renewal of an act which had expired only on the 31st of July, and was perfectly well known in every part of Ireland. The law, in respect to the registering of arms, had been executed with great mildness, and in respect to the searching for arms, had never been acted upon at all, but in cases of necessity. It was in fact a mere renewal of an act extremely well known throughout the country, and he did not conceive it necessary to extend the term on the ground of any surprise from an ignorance of the law.

Lord Hardwicke thought, that the observations of the learned lord had rather confirmed than refuted what he had suggested upon the subject; for the very circumstance of the mild and lenient manner in which the act had been executed, had almost rendered it obsolete; and he believed, in point of fact, that the necessity of registration had been adverted to by very few persons, and thus, in point of fairness and justice, it was necessary to be parti cularly attentive to the effectual promulgation of the law. The proposition of Earl Hardwicke was negatived.

Lord Holland moved an amendment, to limit the duration of the act to one year, and to the end of the then next session of Parliament, which, in fact, extended in to two years. He observed, that what had been stated by the noble earl in regard to the registration of arms, appeared to be perfectly correct; the registration was in fact a VOL. I.-1807.

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measure

measure of mildness and lenity, but if the necessity of it should not be generally known, it would become a measure of extensive severity.

Lord Holland moved that the period of searching for arms should be between sun-set and sun-rise.

This was also negatived.

The House resumed, the report was received, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

Lord Holland inquired at what hour? and was answered, at half past four, or a quarter before five o'clock. The curates' indemnity bill was read a second time, and referred to a committee consisting of the peers present, with liberty to sit the next day forenoon.

Adjourned.

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The Irish vote of credit bill, and several other bills on the table, were read a third time,

MILITIA TRANSFER BILL.

The order of the day being read for the third reading of the militia transfer bill,

Lord Sidmouth rose chiefly with a view to restate the opinion he had on a former occasion expressed of the tendency of this measure, and to correct a misconception of it, which some noble lords seemed to labour under. It was acknowledged by his noble friend (Lord Hawkesbury), that it had lately been matter of consideration with his majesty's ministers, whe her at the present crisis it were better to resort to the principle of the army of reserve bill, or to ad pt the one now under discussion. Much inquiry was said to have been made respecting the subject, but after mature deliberation, the opinions of the Cabinet prevaled in favour of the present measure. He also had instituted inquiries into the matter; he was far from insinua in that they could have been so extensive as those set on foot by ministers, the result of which most completely decisic his preference to the principle of the army of reserve bill. The country was now almost precisely in the same si uation as that in which it was placed in 1803, when the army of reserve bill was adopted. The crisis at present was perhaps more urgent, and the state of the continent

continent less favourable; but still under such circuinstances would he have looked to the operation of the army of reserve act. The beneficial effects of that act became more visible every day, and promised the fairest success ; but it was thought proper to substitute a measure in its room, which at the end of twenty months did not produce more than 8000 men. The noble viscount then entered into a comparative statement of the operation of the two acts, the army of reserve and the additional force bills, which he compared with that now under discussion, and declared it to be his conviction, that there could not be a moment's hesitation in preferring the principle of the army of reserve bill. The success of the measure was at best but contingent. It would avail but little, unless peace were concluded within five years at furthest. With what probability such an event could be looked for, he was unable to conjecture. Now the whole benefit to be ex ected from its fullest success was that it would raise 28,000 men for the line, and thus far increase our disposable force; that he confessed to be no small advantage, if it could be acquired to that extent, which, however, he doubted: but even if it did so far succeed, still the advantage was oo dearly bought by injuring an establishment of 77,000 men, a full moiety of the whole of our armed force; or ra her by unhinging and perhaps destroying that constitutional force altogether: and to answer what end? to encourage defensive force; and was not the militia a main portion of our defensive force? and would not the present b Il tend to frustrate all the hopes that could reasonably be reposed in that body, an excellent body of men as it now stood; but what would it become when 28,000 of its best disci¡ lined men were suddenly withdrawn from it. He must protest ⚫ most seriously and solemnly against the adoption of such

a measure.

Lord Hawkesbury acknowledged having said that it was matter of deliberation with ministers which of the two measures they should prefer, and the present was not resolved upon without full conviction of its being preferable under all the circumstances of our situation. It was allowed by the noble viscount that the bill might in a great measure, if not fully, accomplish its object, but that still its benefit was contingent. Gran ed. But what was the wish of government? Was it not to meet the pressure and diminish the evil of the present moment; and how? by

increasing

increasing our defensive and disposable force. This them would be, in some degree, accomplished even in the view of the noble viscount; and so far then it would succeed. But he had little or no doubt of its complete success, and then our military force would have received a very great increase indeed. For those who well understood the condition of a soldier, and of a disposable force, would readily acknowledge that by such an addi ion to it as that of twenty-eight thousand men, not only was our defensive force considerably increased, but also considerably strengthened, which was a distinction not to be overlooked.

The Lord Chancellor did not think that his habits authorised him to aspire to great military knowledge; but he would, however, venture to concur with the noble viscount (Sidmouth) in giving the most ample praise in favour of the army of reserve act. At the time it was brought forward, that act had most certainly his concurrence, and even now he did not hesitate to say, that it was one of the most able military plans that had ever been produced in this country; but while he made that acknowledgement, he must also observe, that there was room to think otherwise of that measure at present. It was not so well adapted now to the crisis of affairs, and it should be remembered, that the effects which at first it might have produced must now be considerably altered, not only by the change of the actual circumstances of the country, but by the ope ration of the other different measures that had since been introduced.

Lord Mulgrave thought the noble viscount had laid too much stress upon a distinction between a disposable and a defensive force. No doubt a disposable force was also a defensive one; but from every kind of defensive force, the same services, the same resources, could not, under all the circumstances that might call for these services, be reasonably expected. He was, however, of opinion, that at a moment like the present, there was no room to hesitate between the two plans.

Lord Sidmouth in explanation, again insisted that the principle he laid down was, that the advantages gained by the bill woukl be more than counterbalanced by the inconveniences that must arise.

The bill was then read a third time, and ordered to the Commons.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned.

HOUSE

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