not help thinking that this force was not a favourite with some gentlemen. Perhaps it was not suited to their favourite views it did not afford patronage enough. The honourable officer panegyrized the conduct and character of the militia, and quoted that important evidence of patriotic zeal, the volunteering for Ireland at the time of the rebellion in that country, and at a time when there were not, exclusive of guards and garrisons, above 6,000 disposable troops in this country. From the disposition which ministers manifested, he wished to know whether it was their intention to continue those drafts from the militia from time to time. Because if so, it would become a consideration with these gentlemen who had made such sacrifices, through their connection with that body, whether they would continue the connection any longer; whether they would expose themselves to the mortification of bills of this nature. For his own part, as a militia colonel, he must say, that he could not without pain part with those men who were attached to their officers, and to whom their officers were attached. And such, he was satisfied, were the feelings of the great body of the militia officers, who would, he had no doubt, be driven by measures of this nature, to withdraw themselves from that force, at the same time that he was persuaded they would not fail to employ their talents in such a way as to render service to their country, should the country require their aid. The honourable member concluded with asking, whether ministers had given directions to any officers of the regular army to tamper with the militia? and he was urged to put this question, because from a letter which he had that day received from the lieutenant-colonel of his regiment (the Lancashire), it appeared that officers of the line had, from the moment this bill was known to be brought for-. ward, began to interfere with his men, and by distributing money to introduce those scenes of drunkenness and insubordination, which were natually to be expected from such

a measure.

Lord Castlereagh in reply to the question of the honourable member, stated that it was not the intention of ministers to propose a measure of this nature periodically; he meant annually; and they were restrained from such an intention by this obvious motive, among other considetions, that it would produce a repetition of the ballot, which would lead to high bounties, aud of course interfere

AUG. 5.]

MILITIA TRANSFER BILL.

with the system of regular recruiting. With respect to the tampering with the militia, to which the honourable member had alluded, he observed that it would be a great presumption in ministers to take any proceeding whatever upon this bill, before it had received the assent of even one branch of the legislature. But he could assure the honourable gentleman, that so far from issuing such orders as the question referred to, the officers who could be capable of acting so improperly as he had described, would subject themselves to the severe animadversions of government. The noble lord was glad that the case mentioned by the honourable member was made known; because measures might be taken that the officers who had so far forgotten their duty as to interfere with the honourable colonel's regiment, should derive no advantage from it. It might, for instance, be so fixed by the commander in chief, that the regiment appointed to receive the volunteers from the Lancashire militia should not be that which was at present next in cantonment to that regiment; and other means might be taken to mark a determination to discountenance such proceedings as the honourable member alluded to.

Sir R. Williams spoke against the bill, which if brought forward at an early period of the sessions, would, he had no doubt, have produced petitions from every part of the country, and that the gentlemen on the treasury bench would have lost their places. The honourable baronet took occasion to allude to the opinion expressed by an honourable officer (General Tarleton), on a former evening, upon the subject of appointing inspecting field officers; and he would ask that honourable officer, whether, although it might be inconvenient for the general of a district to inspect the volunteers, he had not two major-generals under him, who could find quite time enough to perform that duty? Indeed, it was his opinion that the general himself could do so, and that the honourable officer (Tarleton) would be very well employed in doing so, if it were not that his attendance in that House was so necessary, and his services so material. But on reconsideration, it was difficult to say where the honourable officer's service was more important, whether in the senate. or in the field.

General Tarleton observed, that the officers alluded to. by the honourable baronet could not attend to the service VOL. I.-1807.

4 I

he

he mentioned; that, in fact, such a thing was "militarily impossible."

Mr. Bankes gave his consent to the measure, not because he was blind to the inconveniences that must, in many cases, result from it, but because, feeling in common with every member of the House the necessity of increasing the military force of the country, he did not consider himself warranted in opposing the bill for that purpose, proposed by his majesty's ministers, unless he could offer something better in substitution. He stated the grounds of his approbation of the plan of his right honourable friend (Mr. Windham) and lamented that there were such fluctuations in many parts of the administration of the country, that that plan could not have fair play. It could not be denied that the ballot would be highly oppressive, and would materially injure, and for a time destroy the recruiting of the regular army. To obviate this latter evil as much as possible, he thought it adviseable that the money given for substitutes should pass alone through the hands of government, and was, therefore, desirous, that the fines should not be of such an amount as to preclude this course. The clause introduced in the committee, giving the volunteers from the militia to the line, the option of limited or unlimited service, met with his peculiar reprobation. It was with the most sincere regret that he found this bill was all that it was intended to propose, as he conceived that it was far from being adequate to the exigency of the country. His noble friend had recommended that further measures should be delayed to the next session, but was it certain that in the next session the opportunity of due deliberation would be afforded? why the training bill should not be put in force was to him utterly incomprehensible. It had never been considered as onerous, but if there were obstacles to its execution, he did not think it became Parliament to separate until an attempt had been made to remove those obstacles. He rejoiced that the volunteer system was reviving, but some other body of force was required in the country, from which, in case of invasio, the regular army might be recruited. If ever there was any probability of an invasion, that probability had become much increased within the last two or three years. Every thing had occurred to facilitate it, nothing to retard it

Lord Folkestone objected strongly to the bill, and re

plied to the remark of his honourable friend who had just spoke, that he would support the bill because ministers thought it expedient, although he himself disapproved of it. He could not agree thus to surrender his own judg

ment.

General Loftus regretted that so much opposition had been given to this measure, which he maintained was highly expedient. The former volunteers from the militia had given to the army some of the best non-commissioned officers, and even adjutants, and he deprecated the wish to lock up men of similar character, from extending their sphere of service.

Mr. Windham put it to the House to decide, who were right and who were wrong, in the circumstances which detained the House for such a length of time that morning. He appealed to what had just passed. Would it have been proper to read the bill a third time, without having heard the discussion which had that evening taken place? Unquestionably not. The noble lord had declared, that the subject was exhausted; this was a considerable assumption on the part of any individual. If the forms of the House, and the state of the session allowed, plenty of new topics of objections would arise to the noble lord's bill. It was a standing dish. The House might cut and come again. Whether any emergency existed, what was its nature, what measures were best calculated to meet it if it existed, whether this was pue of those measures; these were considerations which demanded repeated inquiry. He denied that the number of men gained by the ballot, or rather the difference beteen that number and the number that would otherwise be gained by the regular recruiting, would in any degree compensate for the mischief that must result from the contest of bounties to the regular recruiting, Adverting to his own measure, he observed, that in the three months of the last year, it had produced at the rate of 11,000 men a year; in the next three months, at the rate of 13,000 men; in the next three months, at the rate of 21,000 iren; and in the last three months at the rate of 24,000 men thus proving its progressive improvement. Iet this be compared with the parish hill! When this result was considered, as combined with the effects which must have followed putting the training bill into activity, the number that a perseverance in his plan must have pro

duced,

duced, and regularly produced, would nearly have equalled the number proposed to be raised by the noble lord's plan, raised by an effort, which must paralyze future exertion. After having thus maintained the superiority of his system in raising men, he entered into similar statements with respect to the diminution which it had occasioned, and which, if it had been persevered in, it uoquestionably would have occasioned in the number of desertions. The effect of the noble lord's plan on the militia, had been sufficiently described by the gentlemen who had spoken on that subject. For years to come, the militia would not recover the blow of the noble lord. If it was once admitted we had a right to plunder the militia, it was a mere mockery to say that a recurrence of the assumed necessity of plunder would not happen. With regard to thetraining act, which would be the grand reservoir from which the regular army might be supplied, on the score of some difficulty inthe execution, the noble lord proposed to postpone the consideration of it to the next session. What difficulty? None that he knew of, except the mistake of having militia lists instead of proper lists, the effects of which, however, had in a great measure been removed, He repeated his statements on the subject of the volunteers, and contended, that if, in case of invasion, it were attempted to bring a large body of volunteers to act with the line against some of the best troops in Europe, it would be a most ruinous proceeding, and one against the anticipation of which he entered his solemn protest. He contended this measure would be much more expensive than the former measure, and press as a most unequal tax upon the poor man, who would be ruined by the penalty of 20. whilst his wife and family would be driven upon the parish. Of his own plan it could not be said that any part of it was a job. But when they considered the time, at which the present ministers took measures to court the volunteers on the eve of a general election, the transaction would have much the appearance of one. Whatever the volunteers might do in a campaign against Bonaparte, they were an effectual ministerial army in an election campaign. They were a good instrument, and the gentleman opposite had, even when in opposition, played upon it. He looked upon the destruction of the late system, as ha ing its full share in the object of ministers in bringing forward this measure. His honourable friend had well