vessels entered inwards and cleared outwards, with the names of the several vessels for and from the port of Guern scy. Ordered to lie on the table.

PAROCHIAL POOR BILL.

On the motion of Mr. Whitbread, the House went into a committee on the parochial poor's relief bill. The chairman asked if there were counsel in attendance: being. answered in the negative,

Mr. Sturges Bourne rosé and said, that understanding from the honourable gentleman that that was the stage for proposing any clauses that might be deemed necessary, he rose for the purpose of submitting a clause to the committee; his great objection to the bill in its present form was the mode of carrying into effect the relief proposed, namely, by compulsion. Ile disapproved entirely of compulsion in its present form the bill was not to be fitted to the parish, but the parish to the bill, and this he thought would be in general impracticable; besides, if compulsory, it might considerably check the spontaneous charity of many individuals; besides, another objection was, that it was teaching the persons relieved that they might claim as a right that relief which they ought to be taught to look upon as a favour. He was not at all anxious either that any of those bills should pass into a law this session. The public were anxious to give their opi nions upon them, and as far as he could learn that opinion was against them, for certainly he had heard of many petitions against the bill, and not one in favour of it. The clause he had to propose was to come in after the word "That." Be it enacted by the lords spiritual and temporal, &c. that after the word "that" he proposed that in the place of what now stood part of the bill, should follow something to the following purport. (He was aware that the words he was about to read might prove quite informal; but he only meant to convey the purport to the committee, the expressions could be easily rendered more technical :) "That it be lawful for the churchwardens, parish officers, &c. &c. to hold vestries in their respective parishes, for the purpose of taking into consideration the best means of establishing a school or schools, under the direction of fit persons, to be by them appointed, for the better education and instruction of the poor of said parish." Something to this effect, he thought, would be bet

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369 ter than any compulsory method; for certainly the inha bitants of each parish were better judges of the claims of their own poor, and their own means to judge of and provide for those claims, than gentlemen in that House could possibly be.

Mr. W. Smith observed, that if the majority of a pa rish may or does at present compel the minority, he did not see why the majority of Parliament ought not to legalize the adoption of the plan generally throughout the country.

Mr. Hawkins Browne urged most seriously the consideration of the great, impropriety which he conceived there would be in compelling those parishes to adopt the system, who might be averse to it either from peculiar prejudices, or from their particular habits of life. He gave the honourable gentleman who framed the bill, full credit for his benevolence, his patriotism, and the very laudable principles of humanity and morality upon which he acted; but he thought it would be most advisable for the present to leave the system to the consideration of those who might be most affected by it, and from whose collective information a more decisive judgment might be formed.

Mr. Wilberforce was glad to perceive that his own opinion, as to the desirableness of not passing the bill during the present session, eemed to accord with the general disposition of the House. It was certainly more important that this subject should be decided upon, than that it should be decided upon soon. It was highly to be wished, that there should not be any appearance of forcing this plan upon the people, and he regretted to find upon conversing with many magistrates, and other country gentlemen, that they were not so well disposed towards it as he was himself. At the same time, he could not approve of the amendment proposed by the honourable gentleman, because if the voluntary measure which he recommended, should be unsuccessful, it would be very difficult afterwards to carry the compulsory inte execution. The necessity of instruction among the lower classes in the south and west of England, and in Ireland, was strikingly obvious; in the latter particularly, he was convinced that on the instructing and enlightening of the people depended the very safety of the empire itself. Still, although general instruction might be very prac VOL. 1.-1807. ticable,

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ticable, he was not quite prepared to agree to the sending out of a parliamentary edict for that purpose. He thought that sufficient pains had not been taken to avail ourselves of the voluntary institutions for the education of the poor, and was of opinion, that it would be a great improvement to the measure, were it only to operate where those institutions were deficient. Having instanced several cases in which the detail of a bill might be improved, he recommended that the bill should be made as good as possible, and be then sent to the country for the general sentiment. Parliament ought not to be hasty in this business: they ought to recollect that they were legislating for posterity on a subject in which their happiness was more concerned than in any other; for he was convinced that in a thousand attempts to do good, there was not one the result of which could be ascertained with so much satisfaction as the diffusion of useful knowledge. 7 Mr. Whitbread expressed himself happy to find, fron the conclusion of the honourable gentleman's speech, that be continued to be an advocate for the diffusion of knowledge: such an opinion was to be expected from a man of his character and conduct, and one who had paid such unremitting attention to similar subjects. He owned, however, that he was somewhat surprised at the inclination for delay which that honourable gentleman had manifested. Had he not proofs in other parts of the world of the benefits which resulted from the diffusion of the truths of the gospel? And how were those truths to be still further diffused in this country, but by putting into every one's hands the keys of knowledge? The honourable gentleman had allowed that the instruction of the Irish was indispensable to the safety of the empire; was a moment then to be lost? He (Mr. Whitbread), was then what that honourable gentleman had often been, in the hands of the gradual abolitionists of the bill. The postponement would be espoused by those who hoped, by putting off the bill to another session, to get rid of it altogether. The measure had been opposed without having been even read, for if it had been read it could never have been asserted that it was compulsory. It did not compel a single child to attend; it only gave power to the magistrates to erect schools and to appoint schoolmasters: the rest would necessarily follow, This misrepresentation proved to him that if the bill were reprinted

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and sent into the country, it would be only to make waste paper: When Parliament met again, gentlemen would declare that they had not had time to read it, and would press for further delay. He desired, therefore, to have a decision on it in the present session. With regard to the petitions on the table, they did not complain of the principle of the measure, but of the enactments, as tending to affect the petitioners; but the bill contained a elanse, enabling the justices to suspend the execution of the bill, where unnecessary. This would obviate any inconvenience, unless indeed the magistrates were supposed to be corrupt. If corruption were thus to be imputed to all men, every attempt to benefit mankind must cease. We must do nothing but lie down and die. It had been said; that the bill would put an end to charitable contributions. Not so. If in a large parish six thousand children were educated by charitable contributions, and ten thousand were not educated at all, this bill passing over the former would apply only to the latter, whose situation was rendered at present so much more distressing by the contrast. It had been also said, that by the bill, parishes would be compelled to raise a shilling rate. No such thing. The bill only gave a power of doing so when necessary, a necessity that would perhaps not exist once in a thousand parishes. The impossibility of carrying the measure into effect in a year, had been dwelt upon. Why impossible? In many parishes schools were already erected. In others, temporary buildings might be used, until schools were erected. It would be easy to find schoolmasters, among whom there would doubtless be a competition for appointments. If the committee adopted the proposed amendment, he should despair of its ever being the serious intention of the House to carry the general measure into effect. The most weighty objections that had been made to the bill, related to the metropolis and its neighbourhood. It was certainly not probable that police magistrates would be so likely properly to execute the provisions of the bill, as magistrates in the country, who possessed local knowledge and local interests. If, on the report of the bill, the members for the city of London, or for the county of Middlesex, should proposé à clause to prevent this power from being lodged in the hands of the police magistrates, he should not object to it. He repeated his wish, that the bill might pass in

the

the present session. The example of Scotland, and the north of England, evinced the benefits of that instruction in which he was most desirous that the rest of the empire should participate.

Mr. Wilberforce, in explanation, declared that on no subject had he formed a more deliberate, and at the same time a more decided opinion, than on the advantages which a country must derive from the instruction of its people. The difference of opinion entertained by the magistrates, and others with whom he had conversed, was not on the benefit of instruction, but on the mode of conveving it.

Sir John Newport was decidedly in favour of a measure which the honourable gentleman (Mr. Wilberforce) supposed to be most intimately connected with the interest of Ireland and the general welfare of the empire. He thought it however to be his duty to state what was the opinion of a man who was not only a friend to the regu lar establishments of these countries, but also to the political interests, and who was universally acknowledged to be a friend to the human race, he meant Mr. Howard the philanthropist that patriotic and moral man had travelled through Ireland, and he stated, that if ever we attempted to incorporate any particular principles of faith with our education of the people of Ireland, we should certainly fall short of our object. He therefore hoped, that as far as respected that country the system of education would be conducted on the most liberal and enlightened principles of toleration.

Mr. G. Rose stated, that there would be some difficulty in prevailing on parents in many instances to send their children to be educated, on account of the loss which they would conceive they sustained, in giving up so much of their time as would be necessary for education from the profits of a laborious life.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer supported the amendment. He thought that the magistrates might in many instances give but reluctant aid to the measure; that it would be better accomplished by degrees, and that in another session of Parliament legislative aid might be given to render it more efficacious. An amendment had been already proposed; and time would be well lost if the bill was to obtain further amendment from the experience which would be gained during the interval which would

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