ject now before the committee. Of the establishment of Maynooth college, as a substitution for St. Omer's, he entirely approved. He did not himself remember the circumstances under which it was originally founded; but believed from what he had heard, that 8000l. annually were voted for the maintenance of 200 students, and 200 only. The principals of that college have, however, now come forward, and asked of Parliament 5000l. in addition, for the erection of buildings suflicient to lodge 200 students This he could not help thinking was in effect to do no less than double the establishment. As to the Dublin seminary, the excellent system of learning adopted there, had certainly induced a number of the catholic gentry to send their sons to that college. He believed the number of Roman catholic students, considerably above forty. Those young gentlemen pursued the same course. of studies for four years with their protestant fellow students, and in returning to their family had a more friendly, liberal, and just idea of what a protestant was, than they originally had, or perhaps could have otherwise obtained. At the same time, that college would not forget the origin and nature of its institution. The gentlemen on the opposite benches were, he was sure, too well versed in Irish history, not to know that the Dublin college was founded upon protestant principles, by Elizabeth, and for the growth and dissemination of the protestant religion. It was in fact a protestant garrison in a land of catholics; and the learned and respectable characters at the head of the government of that college, have uniformly acted up to the true spirit of its institution. In the reign of James the Second, the stand that college made for her civil and religious liberties, will, while she exists, remain upon honourable record, and the late spirit of religious modera tion that induced her to forbear from taking any part in the disputes of the day, proves that she can forget her resentments as well as remember her obligations.

Mr. Dillon read from a document he held in his hand a statement of the number of sinecure livings in Ireland, without glebe-houses or residences, by which, he contended, it appeared that the Roman catholics paid onetenth of their property to a nominal clergy for doing no thing. He said, it was no wonder that the protestant church was disrelished by the Irish peasant, when the only way through which he knew it was the exactions

of.

of the tithe-proctor. He concluded with an earnest ex-. hortation to the House to adopt some modification of tithes in Ireland, as the best possible way of restoring the people of that country to content.

Sir John Newport defended the way in which the grant had been introduced; and asked, why that mode had not been altered by the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Foster), since it had been condemned by his col league the Chancellor of the Exchequer for England? He was glad he had the authority of the member for Dublin college bearing him out in the assertion made by him in that House in the former Parliament, and which the right honourable gentleman opposite (Mr. Perceval) did not then seem inclined to credit. There were three reasons for encouraging the education of the Roman catholics in Ireland: one, that great lucrative objects were withheld from the Roman catholics, which were the greatest incentives in the education of the protestant. Another was, that the Roman catholics were the poorest order, and therefore had a claim on the government to promote their education, because they were not able to support their own pastors. And a third was, that Oxford and Cambridge were open to the protestants, which were shut against the Roman catholics; besides, Irish viceroys, in the plenitude of their bounty, took good care to carry over to that country a generous supply of clergy, who were soon provided for on the Irish establishment.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in answer to what had fallen from an honourable member (Mr. Dillon), assured that hon. gentleman that the attention of government should be early and anxiously directed to the abuse complained of, with respect to the want of glebe-houses and sinecure livings. He did think with that honourable genéleman that it was extremely hard, that any man should pass away an indolent life upon an opulent living, while a poor curate was discharging the duties of that office for the year round upon a pittance scarcely sufficient to maintain him. He (Mr. Perceval) had before failed in two or three instances in carrying through that House a measure for the regulation of rectories and cures; he however now gave notice that it was the intention of his majesty's present government to submit to the consideration of the House, a measure for reducing the opulent livings, and out of their abundance making an allowance for the poorer

curates.

JULY 15.]

MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.

carates. It ought to have been done before; he wished that the late government had paid more attention to the church in Ireland.

Lord Howick did not mean to protract the debate, nor should he now have risen to offer any thing by way of ar gument on a subject that had been so ably argued, on both sides of the House, had it not been that he could not sit still after the imputation thrown upon the late government by the right honourable gentleman who had just sat down. He challenged the right honourable gentleman to state an instance in which the late government had neglected the church in that country. He desired the right honourable gentleman to ask the primate of that country, what he thought of the Duke of Bedford's administration as to that head. He desired the right honourable gentle man to look into the Secretary of State's office for the home department, and there he would see the documents that would prove how far the late ministers were guilty of negligence, with respect to Ireland; but such a charge carried with it all the boldness of assertion for which that right honourable gentleman was so characteristic. The noble lord then adverted to the conduct of another right honourable gentleman (Mr. Foster) in coming before the House so totally unprepared, without having made the previous inquiries when he was in Ireland, and which he might have made as visitor of Maynooth college, a conduct that appeared to him to evince a culpable carelessness and levity.

Mr. Foster said, that the noble lord had charged him with levity. He asked that noble lord if there was a document to produce to the House which could substantiate the claim now made upon it, and if there was not, he would say that the noble lord, in charging him with levity, had been guilty not only of levity but ignorance. He contended that no such document could be found.

Lord Howick did not think the right honourable gentleman could satisfy the House of his diligence in office by evading the charge of negligence, in resorting to such pitiful excuses.

Mr. Foster would not call such language unparliamentary, but he would pronounce it pitiful.

Lord Howick left it to the House to determine; the right honourable gentleman had said he could not find document. He then said, he did not say he made any any

inquiry;

inquiry; and he now said, that he did not say, he had not made an inquiry: if such was to be the candour and intelligence of the Irish Chancellor of the Exchequer, he could not congratulate that country on the appointment.

Colonel Barry said a few words against the policy of continuing the grant in future, and said that he had been present at all the former debates on the subject, and had not heard of these documents. He disapproved of the wanton and unprovoked asperity with which a noble lord had treated his right honourable friend.

Mr. Sheridan would not begin, as many ge tlemen had begun, with stating, that he would not lengthen the debate, for certainly the very little he had to say, litle as it was, would rather serve to prolong than to shorten the discussion. He congratulated the la e administration on the honourable testimony they had received from the gentleman who had just sat down; that gentleman had been present at all the former discussions upon this subject, yet such was his confidence in the virtue of the late ministers, that he never once felt himself called upon to deliver his sentiments upon the present subject; but how when men succeeded, for whom they both felt such a distrust, his patriotic jealousy at once put an end to that silent and according acquiescence to the judgments and sentiments of honester men.

- Colonel Barry said, that certainly the diligent and punctual attendance of his right honourable friend to his parliamentary duties, in the last session, enabled him to remember accurately all that then passed in that House. Unfortunately, however, he (Colonel Barry) had spoken on that subject, thongh he did not expect, nor, indeed, did it appear, that it had made any great impression on his right honourable friend.

Mr. Sheridan said in answer, that if he had not been as vigilant and anxious in his attention to his parliamentary duties during the last session as he usually was, it was owing to nothing but his unbounded confidence in the late administration: besides he had not spoken from his personal knowledge, but from what had fallen from his honourable friend, therefore he had not been in error, unless it was imputed as such, his paying such immediate implicit deference to the assertion of his honourable friend.

Dr. Duigenan denied that the late administration had manifested any solicitude to promote the interests of the protestant

protestant religion in Ireland. On the contrary, he had' to state, that a bill which he introduced, at the instance of several of the archbishops and bishops of Ireland, to enforce the residence of the clergy, and which bill was a transcript of that brought forward in this country by Sir W. Scott, was discountenanced by that administration, and in consequence rejected. What the administration to which he referred had done for the benefit of the established church in Ireland, he had yet to learn.

Lord Howick had no idea that the disinclination of the late government to countenance a measure brought forward by the learned doctor was likely to depreciate the character of that government, either in England or Ireland, therefore he did not think it necessary to make any attempt at vindicating himself or his colleagues against the learned doctor's accusation.

Lord Milton observed that gentlemen, in asserting the sufficiency of a certain number of clergyme to administer the duties of the catholic religion in Ireland, because such a number was thought necessary in 179, seemed altogether to exclude the consideration of those events which had since occurred on the continent, which events limited the supplies from that quarter, and also seemed to forget the growing population of Ireland.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer in reply to an observation from Lord Howick stated, that it did not appear from any inquiry he had been able to make, that any further extension of the number of pupils in this seminary, for the ecclesiastical function, was called for by the necessity of the case.

Mr. Grattan thought it remarkable, that while the gentlemen on the other side agreed to the resolution, they pursued a course of argument directly against it. Their argument indeed would milita ́e not only against the proposed increase of the institution, but against its original establishment. The principle of the original establishment was to provide the means of educating and domesticating the catholic clergy of Ireland, and thus to protect them from the opportu ity of imbibing foreign principles. With that view the college of Maynooth was ins ituted, and the state of the continent at the time rendered such an institution peculiarly necessary. Did any alteration. take place in the state of the continent, to abite the

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