173 with the ministry before. The honourable gentleman proceeded to state that in 1805 Lord Cullen had sent him notice that he had been with the Duke of Portland, and that he had matter of importance to communicate to him. This was the granting of a pension of 400l. to Lord CulTen, with the reversion of 2001. a year to Mrs. Cullen. In 1806, Lord Cullen thought that he (Mr. Adam) might be of great use to him to further his object, from his connec tion with the late ministers. The honourable and learned gentleman here entered on a statement of Lord Cullen's circumstances. He contended that it would be cruel to deprive the crown of the power of giving a pension, for life, to a judge, who by some accidents, arising from no fault of his, should be reduced to a situation in which his salary could not enable him to support his dignity and do justice to his creditors. In this situation was Lord Cullen. He was the son of Dr. Cullen, who founded the ce lebrated medical school at Edinburgh. His father had been too much engaged in scientific pursuits, to be very careful about his circumstances. Lord Cullen, as the eldest son, was in some degree saddled with, and anxious to pay, his father's debts; and two-thirds of his salary as judge were devoted to that purpose. The honourable and learned gentleman then entered into particular statements of the case, and said, that it never was intended to grant a judge a pension during pleasure, nor could it be done by law. It was expected to be for life, and intended to be se given. The reversion sufliciently proved this, for a reversion of a pension during pleasure was an absurdity. If the warrant stated that it was during pleasure, it was a mistake; which would of course have been rectified when it should be returned to the treasury from the barons of the exchequer in Scotland. The gentlemen on the other side might be sufficiently aware, that mistakes might be committed in the hurry of official business. This was sufficient to prove the rectitude both of the judge and the late ministers. He concluded by moving an address to his majesty for copies of the warrants appointing the new sheriffs, and of the warrant for the pension to Lord Cullen.

The Lord Advocate for Scotland strongly contended, that the appointment of these sheriff's was not called for by any reasons of necessity or expediency. He did not wish to cast any imputation on the respectable goatlemen who

had

had been appointed. They deserved to rise in their profession; but he thought that new offices ought not to be created for men of abilities, but that men of abilities should be placed in offices already existing. He would have ap pealed to the honourable and learned gentleman himself,, whether these offices were in any point of view necessary if he had appeared in any other capacity than as the champion of the late ministers. He said that the duties were in general done by substitutes, and that in all the cases mentioned by the honourable and learned gentleman, there existed no necessity whatever for this division of labour. An arrangement on this point had been lately made, under the administrations of Mr. Addington and Mr. Pitt. The sheriffdoms had been divided into five classes, and salaries granted according to the duties; and it was remarkable that the cases where the division had now taken place were among the lowest classes. If the institution was wise, why did they not come to Parliament for an act? but they seemed to have had some invisible hand to execute their deeds of darkness. It had been said that this regulation had been called for by the voice of the country. He resided there at the time, and certainly had not heard it. He disapproved of it at the time, as de did still. He acknowledged the merits of Lord Cullen. But he thought since Lord Cullen was the friend of the noble duke (Portland); the late ministers, since they had de layed the business so long, might have left it with the noble duke. The words in the warrant were certainly "during pleasure," whether this was a mistake or not.` He ridiculed the strong desire for the division of labour manifested by the late ministers, in their appointment of new professorships in the universities of Edinburgh and Dublin. He would not however oppose the motion.

Mr. Charles Wynne contended for the utility of the professorships in question, from the uncertainty of the state of medicine in many of its most important branches. Professorships of medical jurisprudence existed in most of the German universities, and he quoted the authority of some eminent physicians in support of its utility. Military surgery was a most important branch of medical edu cation, and might prove of the highest advantage to our armies. The professorship of natural history in the Glasgow university was highly useful. In fact there was no object more worthy of government, than an attention to

the

the general diffusion of knowledge. This was the sole purpose of the late ministers in their appointments. But it appeared, that this was an object about which the present ministers were little concerned.

T

Mr. Cochrane Johnstone contended that the affair of the sheriff was a complete job. The sheriff of Stirling scarcely heard ten causes in a twelve-month. He happened to be present when Mr. Williamson, the sheriff of Stirling, received Lord Spencer's letter, requesting him to resign. Mr. Williamson was a very respectable gentleman, and spoke the Scotch dialect in all its native purity. When he read the letter, he turned to him, and exclaimed, "Gude God, Maister Johnstone, did ye ever see sic a job!" (loud laughter.) Wih regard to Lord Cullen, he concurred in the high character that had been given of him, but this reversion of 2007. a year was an insult to the feelings and morals of the people of Scotland.

Mr. Robert Dundas never heard of any necessity for these sheriffs. The sheriffs of Edinburgh did more in a week than the others in twelve months. He agreed in the character given of Lord Cullen, but thought that the selec tion of one man, out of a very respectable and learned body, was a thing that ought not to be rashly done. He could not perceive the great necessity for the professorships; but these things would of course come under the review of the finance committee.

Mr. Laing observed, that after the shape which the discussion had assumed, the circumstance ought to undergo a cool and serious deliberation, without acrimony, or malignant insinuation. He contended strongly for the necessity of the new appointments. It had been said that the sheriffs did not do much duty. That might be; but what was the state of the counties? There was business there to be done, and the sheriff's were, in fact, required by law to reside four months in the year in their counties. Sutherland never enjoyed the presence of its sheriff, but it did not follow that it had no business for one. With regard to the pension, it certainly could not be intended to be during pleasure. Could it be imagined that the late ministers on going out of office should have intended to give a pension during pleasure that the judge in question might be dependent, not on them, but on the present ministers? He also defended the professorships, and observed that the regius professorships were the most useful of any,

Upon

Upon the principles urged by the present ministers, the appointment of Dr. Blair to be professor of rhetoric in the Edinburgh university, would have been called a job. Dr. Walker's appointment to the natural history chair, might have also been called a job. In short, every new appointment, which in the progress of improvement might appear to be necessary further to promote that progress, would be considered as a job. During the late administration there appeared a disposition to encourage genius and promote knowledge. The present ministers seemed to relapse into the system of those under whom learning and genius languished in obscurity, and the poet starved. He concluded by declaring, that a correct and enlightened view of the subject, would prove the great utility and propriety of all the appointments in question, and fully justify the late administration.

The Marquis of Tichfield expressed his belief that the Duke of Portland was not acquainted with the particulars of the transaction which was then the subject of debate.

Mr. W. Dundas (the representative of the county of Sutherland) declared that he had heard repeated complaints from various persons in the county of Sutherland, that justice could not be obtained in that county. If he could call a noble lord (Ray), who had a large domain in that county, he would prove, he was certain, from his knowledge of that place, that a poor man in that county must, in some instances, have travelled a distance of 70 or 80 miles before he could obtain justice. If on an application from a county which extended, from east to west, across to the two seas, a distance of 80 miles, and from north to south, a distance of 50 miles: a county which contained about 60,000 inhabitants, earl Spencer had shut his ears against the application for justice, he then would have said it had been a job indeed.

The Solicitor General of Scotland declared, that the statement of his honourable friend had not satisfied his mind. He had not stated how many months the gentleman who now filled the offices resided in the county. He could himself state it for a fact, which could not be controverted, that that gentleman resided in Edinburgh. However, he thought that the House was not yet in posses sion of sufficient information on the subject in general; he therefore moved that there be added to the words of the original motion, "together with all correspondence and

official

official documents relative thereto." That such an addition should be made was immediately agreed to.

Mr. Croker would be glad to find that all literary merit was liberally and fairly rewarded. But this he wished to see done not by fantastical names, but avowedly as a reward for the learned doctor or the learned lawyer, or otherwise, as the case might be.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer declared himself averse to that woman's war of recrimination which had lately been waged; but at the same time he confessed that he was surprised to find, that those who made a mighty rout about the cry of "no popery," should in return raise a cry of "no peculation," as if they were the only persons who professed any purity of public principle. He had had his eye on that administration, he had watched them pretty narrowly, and he found that their purity consisted in professions, but not in performances; that they wanted to obtain public favour by false pretences; but he would tear off the mask. Then a word or two as to the manner in which this matter has been defended. Did his honourable friend mean to say that it was right, that his majesty should pension what judge he thought fit? Would he say, that it was likely to be the means of securing the independence of judges, if some were to have pensions, whilst others of the same rank would not? He only stated this, in order to shew that other persons besides the friends of the late administration were fit to be chosen members of the committee of finance.

Mr. Martin was extremely happy to find that he had the approbation of the right honourable gentleman on the other side (he was supposed to have alluded to Mr. G. Rose) whose name was proverbial as an enemy to jobs, who knew all the arcana of the proceedings of office. That right honourable gentleman could, he was well convinced, be very serviceable to the country, if he was to devote his time to an endeavour to make out discoveries of this nature, and if he had the support of Parliament, the country would not say that this was a woman's war. He was not himself, he confessed, nor could he be expected to be, so capable of defending against an accusation of this sort as those who had spent 14 years in extending the power of France. But on Tuesday next all these independentgentlemen would have an opportunity of testifying their zeal for the detection of abuses, by supporting the motion VOL. 1.-1807.

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