Commonwealth of Massachusetts, His Excellency the Governor laid before the Council a letter from James Avery, Esquire, relative to the Government of New Brunswick asserting their claims to Moose Island, Dudley, and Fred Island, all lying to the westward of Schoodic river, and requested their advice upon the subject. Thereupon, advised that his Excellency the Governor acquaint James Avery, Esquire, that the Governor and Council highly approve of his vigilant attention to the important interests of the Commonwealth; and that the said James Avery be directed to inform the inhabitants of the said islands that the said islands are within the jurisdiction of this Commonwealth; and that the Government, confiding in their fidelity, expects and requires the inhabitants of the same to conduct themselves in every respect as becomes true and faithful subjects of this Commonwealth. That a letter be written by his Excellency the Governor to the Governor of New Brunswick upon the subject of these encroachments, and that a copy of the letter from James Avery be sent to our Delegates at Congress, with the proceedings of the Governor and Council upon this business, to be laid before Congress. True copy. W. HARRIS, Dy. Secretary. Attest: FROM THE GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS TO THE GOVERNOR OF NEW BRUNSWICK. Sir, Commonwealth of Massachusetts,} Boston, September 9, 1785. I am informed by a gentleman who is an inhabitant in the eastern part of this Commonwealth that the Government of New Brunswick hath asserted a claim to Moose, Dudley, and Fred Islands; but I flatter myself he has extended his ideas beyond the real fact, for he mentions only the conduct of the sheriff of your county of Charlotte, (Mr. Wyer,) grounded on the advice and direction of Judge Ludlow, in advertising and directing the inhabitants of Moose Island to attend the courts at St. Andrews as jurymen, upon pain, in case of refusal, of forfeiting their estates. As I am not informed that your Excellency has interposed your authority, I am inclined to believe that my informant had been premature in forming an opinion, that the Government of New Brunswick had given its sanction to a measure altogether unexpected and insupportable. I have, however, given your Excellency this information, assuring myself that your Excellency will take order effectually to prevent the abovementioned, and every other encroachment, on the territorial rights and sovereignty of this Commonwealth and of the United States. With regard to the lands lying to the east of the river Schoodic and between that and the river St. Croix, or, as the Indians call it, Maggacadava, relative to which some of the subjects of Great Britain, under your immediate government, appear to have adopted an improper opinion, it is a matter before Congress, who, I am assured, will give instructions to their Minister at the Court of London to assert and maintain their just claims, as set forth in the treaty agreed to between the two nations. I have the honor to be, &c., His Excellency Thomas Carleton, Esquire. JAMES BOWDOIN. FROM JOHN JAY TO JOHN ADAMS. New York, November 1, 1785. Dear Sir, It will, I am persuaded, give you pleasure to receive the enclosed act of Congress, of 14th ult., for compensating the services of our friend Dumas, and alleviating the uneasiness and anxiety which seems for some years past to have oppressed him on that account. I have already sent him a copy of it; but lest that may miscarry, and that you also may be informed of it, I enclose a duplicate copy. I have the honor to be, &c., JOHN JAY. Dear Sir, FROM JOHN JAY TO JOHN ADAMS. New York, November 2, 1785. Mr. Houdon, the celebrated statuary of Paris, who has taken a bust of General Washington, and is to make his statue for Virginia, and perhaps another for the United States, is the bearer of this. His character as an artist being high, and in other respects, as far as I can learn, unexceptionable, I take the liberty of introducing him to you. Not understanding English, he will be much a stranger in London, and your friendly offices of course will be the more acceptable and grateful to him. I am, dear sir, &c., JOHN JAY. Dear Sir, FROM JOHN ADAMS TO JOHN JAY. Grosvenor Square, Westminster, August 25, 1785. Yesterday I had a long conference with Mr. Pitt for the first time. He never had proposed any interview with me, and I had delayed to request him to appoint any time, after the first ceremonial visit, for two reasons: because that, while Parliament was sitting, his time and mind were so engaged, that it was impossible he should attend in earnest to the affairs of the United States; and because I expected that a little time would bring, both from America and Ireland, intelligence which would somewhat lessen that confidence, with which the Ministry and the nation were elated. Such intelligence has now arrived. The twenty resolutions have been, in effect, given up, that they might not be rejected by the Irish Parliament; and the Massachusetts act of navigation has appeared, together with advices from Virginia, Philadelphia, New York, and various other parts of the United States, which have excited a serious apprehension that all have the same principles and views. I shall not attempt to give you the conversation in detail; yet it is necessary to give some particulars, from which you may judge how much or how little may result from the whole. He asked me what were the principal points to be discussed between us? I answered, that I presumed the Marquis of Caermarthen had laid before the King's servant some papers, which I had done myself the honor to write to him. He said he had. I replied, that those letters related to the evacuation of the posts upon the frontier; to the construction of the armistice; and to a treaty of commerce; and that, besides these, there were the negroes carried off contrary to the treaty, and some other points, which I had particularly explained to Lord Caermarthen. He said that the carrying off the negroes was so clearly against the treaty, that they must take measures to satisfy the demand, if we could prove how many were carried off. I told him that Sir Guy Carleton could easily ascertain the number, and that Colonel Smith, who negotiated with Sir Guy, could do the same, and that I had the evidence of their proceedings ready to produce whenever it was wanted. He entered then into the subject of the armistice, and we were longer on this point than we needed to have been. I observed to him that Mr. Blowers's construction was demonstrably absurd, because it would place the whole coast of America in the period of five months. The coast of the United States certainly was not between the Canary Islands and the equator and, therefore, could not be included in the period of two months. It is neither in the Channel nor North Seas, and therefore cannot be within the period of twelve days; consequently, if it is not in the period of one month, it must be in that of five months-an idea that never could have been entertained a moment by either of the contracting parties. Mr. Pitt said he thought that was clear, and that this point might be easily settled; but, as to the posts, says he, that is a point, connected with some others, that I think must be settled at the same time. I asked him what those points were? He said, the debts; several of the States had interfered against the treaty, and by acts of their Legislatures had interposed impediments to the recovery of debts, against which there were great complaints in this country. I replied to this, that I had explained this at great length to the Marquis of Caermarthen, but that I might now add, that Congress had, very early after the peace, proposed an explanation of the article, as far as it respected the interest of debts contracted before the war. They had instructed their Ministers at Paris to propose such an explanation to this Court; that we had proposed it, through Mr. Hartley first, and the Duke of Dorset afterwards, and that I had renewed the proposition to my Lord Caermarthen, upon my first conference with him, but that we had never received any answer. I thought it was best there should be an explanation; for I was persuaded that an American jury would never give any interest for the time which run during the war. Mr. Pitt said that would surprise the people here, for that wars never interrupted the interest nor principal of debts; and that he did not see a difference between this war and any other, and the lawyers here made none. I begged his pardon here, and said, that the American lawyers made a wide difference. They contended that the late war was a total dissolution of all laws and Government, and consequently of all contracts made under those laws, and that it was a maxim of law, that a personal right or obligation, once dissolved or suspended, was lost forever; that the intervention of the treaty, and the new laws, were necessary for the revival of those ancient rights and obligations; that these rights were in a state of non-existence during the war, and no interest during that period could grow out of them. These being the opinions in America, it was not probable that any jury would be found, from Georgia to New Hampshire, who would give, by their verdict, interest to a creditor, and, therefore, it was most fair and equitable that an explanation should be made, that the same rule of law might be observed on both sides. This observation appeared to strike him, he said. If there was any danger of this, it would be best that an explanation should be made, but that the balance of debts was much in favor of this country; which I did not deny. But, he said, the Government would not dare to make it, without previously feeling out the dispositions of the persons chiefly interested, and knowing how it would be taken by them. We had a much longer conversation concerning these debts, and the difficulty of paying them, arising from the restrictions on our trade, in which I repeated to him what I had before said to Lord Caermarthen, and to the deputies of the Scotch creditors; but as I have transmitted that to you before, it is unnecessary to repeat it here. He then began upon the treaty of commerce, and asked what were the lowest terms which would be satisfactory to America; I answered that I might not think myself competent to determine that question. Articles might be proposed to me that I should not think myself qualified to decide upon without writing to Congress; but I would venture so far as to say that I thought the project I had communicated to Lord Caermarthen would give satisfaction to America, and secure the friendship of the United States and the essence of their trade to this country. But that, in proportion as a plan less liberal was adopted, that friendship would be precarious and that trade would be scattered. I added, that the most judicious men in America had been long balancing in their minds the advantages and disadvantages of a commerce perfectly free on one side, and a navigation act on the other; that the present time was a critical one; the late intelligence from all parts of America concurred with the |