It is unnecessary for me to add any thing to the opinions already given. I think the punishment suggested by your lordship, is the moderate and proper punishment, and I most heartily concur with your lordship. Lord AbercrombyMy lord, this panel was secretary to the society assuming to themselves the name of the British Convention.My lord, the object which these societies held forth to the public at first was, a general reform, without specifying the nature or the extent of it; and, my lord, I am disposed to believe, that, at that period, there were many well-disposed persons, in every part of the kingdom, who joined these societies, without any wicked purpose, believing that their sole object was, to render our constitution, excellent as it is, still more perfect, without entertaining the most distant idea of overturning that constitution. My lord, whatever the views of these persons, of these deluded persons, may be, every thinking man, every man of common discernment-might see what was the object of the leaders of this society, and that, under the pretext of reforming the constitution, they intended to overthrow it. My lord, about the beginning of the year 1793, it was well and justly observed, by a person who, I fear, had but too good reason to know the real views of these societies, that if the friends of freedom, as he termed them, could obtain the reform in parliament, which they were then demanding, that, my lord, it would immediately have been followed by the abolition of monarchy, and the total overthrow of our constitution. My lord, after they had been dispersed by the magistrates, they had a meeting at the Cockpit; and, my lord, they ventured to declare to the public at large, and to their fellow citizens, that their sole and only object is, to overturn the present happy constitution, which we now enjoy. The name which they assumed to themselves, denotes, in the clearest manner, that that was their sole object, for they assumed the name of the British Convention of the Delegates of the People, associated to obtain Universal Suffrage, and Annual Parliaments. It was well observed, yesterday, that universal suffrage, at no period, had ever obtained in any part of the constitution, and never could in any state whatever, except one, which is France, where it certainly exists at present in its fullest extent; and from the effects it has produced there, sure I am, that we have no reason to try the experiment; we have no reason to change the most perfect system that, I believe, ever prevailed in any nation in the world, for that system of despotism under which that nation lies. My lords, such being the object they had in view, we must all concur in that opinion, which your lordships have given;-and, my lords, that being the case, I must also concur with your lordships in regard to the punishment. I think that no man,-I think the panel himself, cannot think that that punishment is too severe;-he must recollect and must know, that his crime is upon the verge of high treason. He was their secretary, he was one of the secret committee, whose duty it was, in this convention, to name a place for holding a committee of emergency, in the event of an invasion from France. My lord, after this, no man can think the punishment too severe. My lord, a very little more would have been necessary for the public prosecutor to have charged him with high treason. As it is, I must concur in the opinion which your lordships have given. Lord Justice Clerk.-My lords, I feel very much for the situation of the panel; but, my lords, we must not allow our feelings to interfere with the discharging of our duty; we must feel for the welfare of the country; and what would have been the situation of the country, if they had executed the scheme that they were meditating? My lords, I could have wished, and it would have made me happy, if he could have given a proper vindication of his conduct, so as to have got an acquittal from the crimes with which he is charged; and I should be very sorry to think, that he suffers for want of the advice of counsel; but, my lords, it gives me a great deal of satisfaction, that after the proof that was heard yesterday, the ingenuity of no counsel, Scotch or English, could have been able to have satisfied an intelligent jury, that this man was innocent of the offence charged against him. My lords, if he suffers for the want of counsel, he must, I am sure, impute that to himself, for he must know, that a man arraigned at the bar of this court, whether he has money to pay counsel, or whether he has not, he need not go without, for this Court would appoint him one; but it is very odd, that he should in place of applying to counsel here for advice, go to an English counsel, whose place it is not to know the law of Scot land, and who, certainly, had very little business with it.-But he reads something to teach us a little of the English law; but they certainly have no business with Scotch law, and he being to be tried in a court of Scotland, by the laws of Scotland, ought not to have meddled in it; and I am sure however able an English lawyer he may be, he knows nothing of the law of this country, to say that a man cannot be charged as being guilty, actor, or art and part thereof. Nothing but a total ignorance of the criminal law of this country, could have caused such an observation. My brother took notice of an act made in the reign of James 6th, saying " that if art and part is libelled, the generality of the indictment shall be no exception." Before that act, the prosecutor was not allowed to prove any facts or circumstances but what were set forth in the indictment, and this was attended with very great inconveniences, because in 601] for Sedition. the course of evidence very often facts and circumstances came out, which were even stronger than those libelled. The legislature of this country saw the inconvenience, and then it was enacted in James 6th, "That the generality of the indictment should be no exception;" so that it is competent to the public prosecutor to prove facts and circumstances not mentioned at all in the libel. As to the other part of the objection stated by Mr. Skirving, as to the nature of the crime of sedition, I think we should not be deserving of the trust reposed in us, if he had this day to seek into the nature of that crime, when we have within these two months for the same crime, passed sentence of transportation against two persons, Mr. Muir and Mr, Palmer. It is paying a very bad compliment to the Court, after that, that we should now be told, we do not know what we are doing, and that we are yet to learn what sedition is. I thought we were fully apprized of what sedition was, even before the case of Muir, which was followed by that of Palmer. And, I will say, that that opinion that the panel just now read, is absurd in itself, because if acts of violence must be committed to make it sedition, it is impossible that the crime of sedition can be committed at all, because it then ceases to be sedition, it becomes high treason; and if any act of violence had followed these meetings, the consequence would have been thus, that gentleman would have stood there tried for his life, and the forfeiture of his estates, goods, and chattels, would have followed. My lords, as to the punishment to be inflicted, as I have always considered sedition as the most dangerous crime that can be committed, I think we cannot discharge our duty to the country, unless we inflict for that crime a severe punishment. Mr. Muir was transported for fourteen years, and the only hesitation in that case was, whether it should be limited to fourteen years, or not. I have no inclination to go beyond in this case, but I think it is impossible we can, consistently with the justice of the country, pronounce a less sentence upon this panel, than we did upon Mr. Muir. gravation, that they have had not only the THE SENTENCE. The lord justice clerk, and lords commissioners of justiciary, having considered the foregoing verdict, whereby the assize, all in one voice, find the panel Guilty of the crimes libelled: The said lords, in respect of the said verdict in terms of an act passed in the 25th year of his present majesty, intituled, “ An act for the more effectual transportation of felons and other offenders, in that part of Great Britain called Scotland?" ordain and adjudge that the said William Skirving be transported beyond seas, to such place as his majesty, with the advice of his privy council, shall declare and appoint, and that for the space of fourteen years from this date, with certification to him, if, after being so transported, he shall return to and be found at large, within any part of Great Britain, during the said fourteen years, without some lawful cause, and be thereby lawfully convicted, he shall suffer death as in cases of felony, without benefit of clergy by the law of England. And ordains the said William Skirving, to be carried back to the Tolbooth of Edinburgh, therein to be detained till he is delivered over for being so transported, for which this shall be to all concerned, a sufficient warrant, (Signed) ROBERT M'QUEEN. Mr. Skirving. Conscious of innocence, my lords, and that I am not guilty of the crimes laid to my charge, this sentence can only affect me as the sentence of man.-It is long since I laid aside the fear of man as my rule. -I shall never walk by it.-And, my lords, I could not be ignorant of this sentence, because I knew it long before this ;—and I had a letter from London this very morning, informing me that such a sentence was to take place. Lord Justice Clerk. You heard that from the counsel of London too I suppose. Mr. Skirving. No, I told your lordships that was a voluntary thing, I consulted no counsel. My lords I know that what has been done these two days will be rejudged ;-that is my comfort, and all my hope. My lords, it is an aggravation of his crime, that with the example of Muir and Palmer before him, if he had before that thought his conduct was innocent, and did not deserve a high punishment, he was told by the judges of this supreme court in that case, the nature of the offence; and any prudent man would have taken care to have regulated his conIn page 456, line 47, after the word, resolu duct accordingly, and given over those rebellious practices; but in place of that, he tions, should have been added the following: continues their secretary, and attends the Bri--but being ordered to stand the last article on the record of the proceedings of the contish convention. And, my lords, I do conceive, that if any more trials of this kind should vention, we cannot insert it till the termina happen in time coming, it is still a farther ag- tion of this present session. 597. Proceedings on the Trial of MAURICE MARGAROT, on an Indictment charging him with Seditious Practices. Tried before the High Court of Justiciary at Edinburgh, on the 13th and 14th of January: 34 GEORGE III. A. D. 1794.* MR. Margarot.+-Clerk of the court, where | is the lord justice general of Scotland, I do not see him in his place. * Taken in short hand, by Mr. Ramsey. See the preceding and following cases. In the Gazetteer, No. 80, I find the following article relative to this case: Clerk.-I do not know where he is. Mr. Margarot.-I hold that this court is not competent to try me. My lords, I am "The trunk was, however, taken. The delegates were kept confined from that hour until five in the afternoon of the same day, without the least refreshment, and in a room where there was not even a single chair to sit upon. Between five and six o'clock they were sent for to partake of a dinner prepared by an order of the sheriff; and at seven o'clock, M. Margarot being ordered into a private room, he inquired of the sheriff in what manner he meant to proceed; and being answered, by interrogatory, he told the sheriff, that he would not submit to such an unconstitutional practice; that if he had offended against the laws, he would answer to his country, but it should be openly. "The following questions were then put to him : "The London Corresponding Society. "The London Corresponding Society, united for the purpose of obtaining a thorough parliamentary reform, and thereby a restoration of the British constitution to that degree of purity in which it was settled at the Revolution, having delegated two of their members to represent them in the General Convention then sitting in Edinburgh for the same constitutional purpose, the two said delegates, M. Margarot and J. Gerrald, after having attended their duty in the said Convention, from the 19th November, until the 4th day of the present month of December, both days included; and during which period the General Convention had thought it expedient to assume the title of the British Convention of Delegates of the People associated to obtain universal suffrage and annual parliaments, were, on Thursday the 5th of De-in cember, at seven o'clock in the morning, taken out of their beds in the Bull Inn on Leith Walk, by four men, armed with bludgeons, headed by a sheriff's officer, who acquainted them, that he had a warrant (which he refused to show them, although desired to produce it) from the sheriff, for apprehending their persons, and seizing all their papers. "The Delegates submitted their persons, but protested against the illegality of seizing their papers. This protest being, however, of no avail against men armed with bludgeons and with warrants, all the papers found in their room, whether belonging to them or others, whether left there accidentally, or designedly brought in, were, for conveniency, thrown promiscuously into a small trunk belonging to M. Margarot, together also with two pocket books of his, containing bills to a considerable amount, memorandums, and private papers, his property. This done, J. Gerrald and M. Margarot again renewed their protest against such usage; and the latter locking the trunk, and putting the key in his pocket, forbade the officer to remove it, as otherways he should have to answer for so gross a violation of the constitutional rights of a British subject. "Are you a member of the British Convention?-I do not acknowledge the legality of a private interrogatory. "From what place or district are you a delegate to the said Convention?-As above. "Have you made or seconded any motions the said Convention, and what was the nature of those motions?-As above. "[A piece of paper with some writing upon it, being shown him, he was asked] "Did you make said motion in the Convention last night, or upon any other day?—— As above. "The procurator fiscal then desired that the following question might be put to the prisoner: "Did you come to Scotland upon any previous invitation of any person or persons in this country?-Before I reply to this question I must inquire of the procurator fiscal, whether it be criminal in Scotland for any person resident here to send an invitation to any person residing in another country; or whether it be criminal in any such person residing elsewhere, to accept an invitation from Scotland, and repair hither? "To this question the procurator fiscal with visible embarrassment, replied, Sir, you were brought here not to ask questions, but to answer them.' Then, Sir, (replied the prisoner), I do not acknowledge the legality ' of a private interrogatory.' "Here the examination ended. "But the procurator fiscal wanting to proceed to examine the papers contained in 605] for Sedition. cited before the lord justice general of Scot- the trunk, M. Margarot was desired to give "The following is nearly the substance of J. Gerrald's examination before sheriff Harry Davidson. He applied for a copy of it, but was refused. "Are you a member of the British Convention? You ought to have known that before you sent for me here; that question therefore I conceive to be unnecessary. "From what district do you come, and what description of persons sent you here? Decline answering. The persons who sent me here, however, and the district in which I was chosen, will be found mentioned in the London Courier published towards the end of October. "How long have you been in Edinburgh? -I cannot precisely recollect; but imagine it may be about a month or six weeks. I came soon enough, at all events, to do the business on which I was sent. "What was that business?-To procure, by peaceable means, annual parliaments and universal suffrage. "J. Gerrald declined answering any further questions. "Bailed in the same sum." It has been recommended by the select committee on finance recently appointed by the House of Commons, that after the termination of the existing interest in the office of lord justice general of Scotland, the president of the court of session for the time being, should assume the title, rank, and privileges of lord justice general, and that the salary now annexed to this office should be discontinued. See the First Report from the Select Committee on Finance, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed, March 27th 1817. law, is a total objection to an indictment. My I have met the laws, and I beg this may * As to the office of lord justice clerk, see Vol. 10, p. 989, note. ↑ See his case Vol. 19, p. 1, of this Collection. * one) that in one year, forty-four judges were of it? It is from the necessity of things that hanged and you will know the fate of Jef- we must judge of it-no other person can ferys, who, though the slow hand of the law judge of it, and therefore I hold that objeccould not overtake him, was torn in pieces by tion to be null and void. With respect to the the people. I do not mean to say that you attendance of the lord justice general-by are guilty-that remains for a higher decision act of parliament it is declared, that any three than mine, at that tribunal where you must of this court shall be a quorum to try any crisoon appear, to answer for those actions minal, consequently, though my lord justice which you have committed; but you will re- general is absent, and even if your lordships member, that there will be at that day a mix- | and I were absent, any other members of the ture of guilt and innocence-may the inno- court, provided there are three, is a legal quocence appear predominant;-I do not wish to rum sufficient for the trial, therefore I am of be one of your accusers on that day. opinion that the objection should be repelled. Lord Justice Clerk.-Does any of your lordships think otherwise?—I dare say not. Repel the objection. My lords, the objection that I have stated it is impossible to get over, for that man is remarkably accurate,-I mean the public prosecutor, and if it was not necessary, he would not have inserted it. I expect no mercy from him, neither shall I expect any thing like mercy from the Court in the situation in which I stand, if what I have heard be true. [The objection repelled.] Lord Justice Clerk. You will attend to the criminal libel that is to be read against you. Mr. Margarot. Before that is read, my lords, I claim another privilege, which is, that of having my witnesses called over, and if there are any who do not attend, I insist-I demand-I do not ask it as a favour-I demand it-you are on the seat of justice, and take heed how you administer that justiceI demand it as my right, that a caption be granted against the absentees. Lord Eskgrove.-With respect to what Mr. Margarot has said of his witnesses, I dare say your lordships would not hesitate at sending a messenger to serve even your lordships, or any man in the kingdom with a citation. I hope it is not true, that the officer refused to cite your lordships; it was his duty, and he ought to have done it. Lord Justice Clerk.-Mr. Margarot, stand up and hear the criminal libel read against My lords, there is another objection alsoI need lord justice clerk and lord Henderland's testimonies, as exculpatory evidences: I wanted to bring them upon their oaths to the bar, but though it is the privilege of an Englishman-of a Briton I mean, for I wish the name of Englishman to be annihilated in that of Briton-it is a privilege granted to us by that constitution which is so loudly trumpeted up upon every occasion, that a panel at the bar, shall have the same compulsory method of bringing his witnesses that his prosecutor has, that has been denied me. The man whose business it is to cite witnesses said, he would attend in court, and give his reasons why he did not dare to serve those judges with a citation. It is true, I mention-you. ed only the lord justice clerk to him, and I charged him to tell the lord justice clerk that I wanted his evidence, and I apprehend, that you are not competent to determine upon this objection. I have obeyed the laws. This is not the high court of justiciary, inasmuch as it lacks the centre stone-inasmuch as it lacks the principal officer of the court, and the man who here should represent the king; and consequently the wording of the indictment is loose, and renders it null and void. I have done my duty, and I demand to be discharged from your bar simpliciter. Lord Justice Clerk.-What do your lordships say to this objection? Lord Henderland.-My lords, the objection as I understand it, is, that the lord justice general does not attend this court, and it is even said, that we are not competent to judge of the force and validity of that objection. Why, my lord, with respect to that, if we are not competent to judge of it, who is to judge See Vol. 8, p. 196, of this Collection. Not quite so. Jefferys died in the Tower of London: see the anecdote concerning him at the end of Tutchin's case, Vol. 14, p. 1199, of this Collection. The Indictment read as follows: George, &c. Forasmuch as it is humbly meant and complained to us, by our right trusty Robert Dundas, esq. of Arniston, our advocate, for our interest upon Maurice Margarot, merchant in Marybone, London, No. 10, High-street, residing or lately residing, at the Black Bull Inn, head of Leith Walk, barish of St. Cuthbert's and county of Edinburgh: that whereas, by the laws of this, and of every well governed realm, sedition is a crime of an heinous nature, and severely pu nishable; yet true it is, and of verity, that the said Maurice Margarot has presumed to commit, and is guilty actor, or art and part of said crime: in so far as, the said Maurice Margarot having been named a delegate by an association of seditious people, calling themselves the Corresponding Society of London, did repair to Edinburgh with the wicked and felonious purpose of joining and co-operating with an illegal association of evil disposed and seditious persons, who originally designed themselves, The General Convention of the Friends of the People; but who have of late assumed the designation of, "the British con"vention of the delegates of the people, as |