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Narrative, that his Majesty's ministers advised his Majesty to give that answer to the city of London, by which all enquiry was denied. He would not believe, unless the noble lords on the other side stated it themselves, that they could at that time be ignorant of those facts and circumstances. Their lordships were aware, that in consequence of some dissentions in the cabinet, two of his Majesty's ministers, who were ministers at the period of this Expedition, had since resigned. But what must be their lordships opinion, if it was now pleaded by the noble lords on the other side, that they were ignorant of the facts and sentiments detailed and expressed by their colleague, the author of the Narrative? Were they then to infer, that their dissentions on the cabinet still continued; that such was the indifference, with which they viewed each other, that they would not even ask for information from a colleague with reference to factsof the greatest importance to the country; that such was their mutual distrust that they could not communicate with each other even upon topics which intimately affected the public service; that such was their contempt of each other, that one would not condescend to ask the other a question, for the purpose of obtaining information, however essential that information might be to the purposes of government, or to the interests of the country? Was the House to infer, that such was at this moment the divided and degraded state of the ad ministration of the country? He would not believe then that such could have been the ignorance of his Majesty's ministers, unless they themselves stated it. Under the impression, therefore, that his Majesty's ministers could not have been ignorant of the facts and circumstances detailed by their colleague, the master general of the ordnance, in his narrative as commander in chief of the Expedition to the Scheldt, of circumstances, each of which most imperiously called for inquiry, as well for the purpose of satisfying the public and the country, as for clearing that profession, which was so important and valuable to the dearest interests of the Country; the, navy, from the blot, which had been attempted to be cast upon it, he felt it to be his duty to move for an Address to his Majesty, praying That his Majesty would be graciously pleased to inform the House who it was that advised his Majesty to return the Answer to the City of London respecting the Expedition

to the Scheldt, That his Majesty had not deemed it necessary to institute any inquiry.

The Earl of Liverpool said, if the object of the noble marquis was merely to know who it was that advised his Majesty to return the Answer alluded to, he had not the smallest objection to state, that the whole of his Majesty's ministers had concurred in advising his Majesty to give that answer, with the exception of the earl of Chatham, who, as must have been observed, from some of the papers on the table, had not attended the deliberations upon that subject. It was open, therefore, to the noble marquis to make that answer the subject of any accusation, that he might think it proper to urge against his Majesty's ministers; and he had no hesitation to say that he was prepared distinctly to meet the noble marquis upon the ground of that answer. He was fully prepared to justify the advice given to his Majesty with reference to that answer, upon the grounds of the facts and circumstances of which his Majesty's ministers were then in possession; and if the occasion were to occur again, he would advise a similar answer upon a knowledge of facts and circumstances similar to those then known to his Majesty's ministers. The noble marquis had spoken of the noble earl as master general of the ordnance, and a confidential servant of his Majesty ; but the fact really was, that the noble earl acted as commander in chief of the Expedition in a capacity wholly distinct from his office as a minister, and that his Majesty's ministers considered that noble earl in his situation as commander in chief to be under the same circumstances as the commander of any other Expedition. They had, therefore, no more right to call upon him for papers or documents, than they had upon the commander of any other Expedition.The noble earl was therefore, perfectly at liberty to use his own discretion, with respect to the facts and circumstances he chose to state, and must have been considered in the same situation as any other commander. The noble marquis had omitted to state one part of the answer, which did not exactly suit his purpose, and the object of which was to refer the inquiry to parliament. This, he contended, was the only proper course that could be pursued. There was no ground for a military inquiry-there was no charge by one branch of the service against another

that the only fit course of proceeding was what had taken place, namely, to refer the whole case to parliament.

The Earl of Rosslyn admitted, that considerable difficulties arose from the dif ference of the naval and military code, in instituting a general enquiry into the conduct of a conjoint expedition. But the existence of such difficulties was by no means to preclude all enquiry. On the contrary, in such cases, it was the duty of ministers to pave the way for practical investigation, by calling upon the commanders in chief of the two services for reports of the occurrences which fell within their respective departments; and if the failure of the Expedition arose from a deviation from instructions, or any delay, negligence, or want of energy in their execution, the reports in question would furnish the details out of which such charges prima fuciè arose, and which therefore ought to form the subject of particular enquiry. Ministers justified the late Expedition by saying that it was intended to be a coup de main, and that the success of it essentially depended upon rapidity of execution, and simultaneous co-operation. But were they en

there was no charge by any individual against the commander. How then, could an inquiry be instituted? He put it to those who objected to instituting a court martial, where the noble lord who was the object of it demanded it; how it could be justified if they were to have instituted an inquiry where no charge was made, where no court martial was demanded, and thus to have trifled with the feelings of officers, and cast a stigma upon either service. There was no instance, besides, of an inquiry in the case of a conjoint service, nor could it with any propriety take place, where the military and the naval code differed in so many material points. The only place in which a case of that kind could be fully gone into was in parliament, and to parliament it had been referred. It was true that the Expedition had failed in its main object. The original design of the Expedition was, that the attack upon Antwerp should be simultaneous with that on Walcheren, and this proceeded upon the assumption that Flushing might have been masked whilst the attack was made on Antwerp. He then was strongly of opinion, and still thought, that to attempt the destruction of the enemy's naval preparations at Antwerp was worth en-couraged to entertain any such expectacountering a considerable risk. He there- tions from what had passed between sir fore most sincerely regretted that the in- Richard Strachan and the first lord of the tended destruction was not effected; be- admiralty? The winds and weather, it cause he still thought that those naval seems, had disconcerted the project in the preparations might become formidable to outset. But if simultaneous co-operation this country. To effect the desired ob- was to be the life and soul of the enterject, the greatest Expedition was em- prise, how came they to plan an expedi ployed that was ever sent from this or any tion which was to sail in three or four other country upon any occasion. That successive divisions? and if it were so to it failed in its ulterior object was not to be sail, how came they to calculate that the attributed to any fault or failure in the winds and weather were to be exactly plan, or in the execution of it, to any neg- such as would favour the junction of the lect of the executive government, or to any whole, at a given period, at the point of misconduct in the army or navy, but to cir- debarkation? The fact was, that they cumstances which it was impossible to shut their eyes to the doubts and difficulcontrol-to the elements, and to the un- ties suggested by sir R. Strachan. To usual state of the weather at that season. him they said "Go, go, we have comHe denied that there was any blot upon plete confidence in you; every thing will the navy, or the least slur cast upon that go on well." From lord Chatham all most important and valuable service. The these difficulties were studiously concealfailure of the ulterior object of the Expe- ed. To him they said, "You will find dition, was alone to be attributed to the every thing ready to your hand; you difficulties arising from the unusual state of will find Flushing invested, and cut off the weather. It was under this impres- from all reinforcements and supplies; sion, that his Majesty was advised to re- and you will have nothing to do but to turn the answer alluded to, and upon proceed as fast as possible, up the West which, without meaning to go into a de- Scheldt to Antwerp."-He would not detailed argument relative to the Expedition tain their lordships, upon the present oche was still prepared to say, that an in-casion, with minute details; but he could quiry could not have been instituted, and not abstain from touching upon two or

three points, upon which, in his opinion, his Majesty's ministers ought long ago to have called for explanation. In lord Chatham's dispatch of the 11th of August, he stated that he was prevented from proceeding up the West Scheldt, owing to the transports with the cavalry and provisions not having then got through the Slough; whereas, in the dispatch of the same date from sir R. Strachan, the transports were stated to have already got through, and every thing was alleged to be in the most forward state for prosecuting the ulterior objects of the Expedition. Ought not this difference of statement to have induced ministers to have called for some explanation? Ought they to have published both, and there let the matter rest? Ought they not to have suspected some mistake on the part of one or other of the commanders, and to have inquired into the reason? Were they not aware that much of the abuse and calumny so improperly directed against lord Chatham originated in the erroneous supposition, that as early as the 11th of August, all the necessary preparations for going up the Scheldt were completed? The pas-nisters have thought it strange, that lord sage to which he alluded in the admiral's dispatch, he found altered in the copy laid on their lordships' table. He hoped that circumstance would be explained.

by direction of the naval commander in chief applied to him (lord Rosslyn), then in command of the troops in South Beveland, to know whether he had instructions to prosecute the ulterior objects of the Expedition, assuring him at the same time that every thing was ready on the part of the navy, to co-operate with him. His answer was, that he had no instructions; and he would now say further, that if he had had instructions, he had not the means of carrying them into execution. Was there not something on the very face of those documents that demanded enquiry the instant they came into the hands of ministers? Did it not strike their lordships as extraordinary, that the naval commander in chief, though able to communicate directly with the military commander in chief, without the delay of a couple of hours, and thus at once ascertain what instructions had been forwarded to the commander in South Beveland, should, instead of taking that course, apply to the latter through the medium of a subordi nate naval commander? If all the naval preparations were complete, must not mi

Lord Mulgrave here said, that he could immediately explain it, to the satisfaction of noble lords. The discordance in the dispatches alluded to, had not escaped his attention. On the contrary, it was one of the first points on which he requested an explanation from sir R. Strachan upon his return; and the answer was, that the mistake originated in a premature report made to him.

Lord Rosslyn then proceeded, and observed, that the explanation just given, instead of being satisfactory, came powerfally in support of the charge of egregious negligence which he brought against his Majesty's ministers. Why was not the explanation demanded at the time when the dispatches were received? He would ask, too, why lord Chatham, who returned so long prior to the admiral, and whose character was so much interested in an explanation, had not been applied to upon the subject? The next point, upon which ministers ought to have called for an explanation would be found in a dispatch, with inclosures from sir R. Strachan, dated the 22nd of August. From the inelosures it appeared, that sir R. Keats had

Chatham should still be at Middleburgh? Did they suppose that he was so indifferent to military reputation, as that, at the moment when the enterprize was to be crowned with success, he should voluntarily transfer all the glory that would have resulted from it, to one inferior in command?-The noble lord then proceeded to remark upon the tendency of sir R. Strachan's dispatch of the 27th of August, the period when the ulterior object of the Expedition was finally abandoned. He severely censured ministers for having published that dispatch, unless they had determined upon enquiry, because having been given in a garbled shape, its immediate effect was to direct the censure of the public against lord Chatham. He could not be accused of any bias in favour of that noble lord. He was not united with him in political party; he was not in the habits of intimacy or friendship with him; nor had he any connection or intercourse whatever with him, except what had arisen from the circumstance of serving under his command. He could, nevertheless, with perfect truth assert, that he never remarked in that noble lord

any want of zeal or energy, or any defi ciency in the qualities requisite for the due discharge of the trust reposed in him. But if sir R. Strachan's dispatch excited

no surprise in the minds of his Majesty's appeared only the more important. The ministers, he could assure them that it ex- plain matter in issue was this, whether his cited a good deal of surprise when it got Majesty's ministers were in possession of over to Walcheren. The gallant admiral the information which had subsequently there gave the same satisfactory explana- appeared from the Narrative of lord Chattion of it which he recently gave before ham at the time they gave the answer to the House of Commons, namely, that he the address of the city of London, stating never conceived it was to be made public, that it had not been judged necessary to and that he had no other object in it, than institute an inquiry? If they had the inin writing to the heads of the department formation, then they would be called upon in which he was employed, to pass a just to account for their conduct in returning and merited encomium on the force under such an answer; if they had not the inhis immediate command. But why did formation, then it would appear that they ministers publish only an extract of the themselves had not the confidence of his dispatch in question? Sir R. Strachan was Majesty, but had been supplanted by one understood to have in the same dispatch, of their own colleagues. It was necessary or by the same conveyance, informed go- that their lordships should distinctly ascervernment of an impending scarcity of tain how this matter stood, to pass such reprovisions, there being then only a supply solutions upon it as the nature of the case of ten days in store. Not a word of this should require. He had been often rehad come out; because, to state that buked in that House for saying, that there there remained only a ten days' supply, was an influence behind the throne diswhile our force amounted to 70,000 men, tinct from that of the ostensible servants would have been to tell the public that of the crown-whose influence alone the there was an end of the Expedition. He constitution recognized. He had often disclaimed any idea, in what he stated, of been told that there was no such influcasting any imputation whatever upon sirenee; but would those who had rainR. Strachan or the navy. He considered him as an ornament to his profession, and he was convinced, that he and his officers and seamen had done every thing in their power. He was satisfied that nothing in lord Chatham's Narrative was meant to convey an insinuation to the contrary. The facts there stated would ultimately be found to lay the blame where it ought to be laid, upon the board of admiralty. But the Narrative in question, like the dispatches he alluded to, shewed the necessity of enquiry, with the view of fairly ascertaining where the blame really lay. That the failure did not, in the genuine opinion of ministers, arise from the want of simultaneous co-operation, was evident, from lord Castlereagh's dispatch of the 24th of August, in which he congratulated lord Chatham upon the fall of Flushing; and expresses a confident hope that he would proceed to accomplish the ulterior objects of the Expedition, with the same zeal, vigour, and perseverance that had already been displayed. The noble lord concluded with some observations on the illiberal treatment which lord Chatham had received on the part of the public journalists, and particularly those of them who were the supporters of the ministry.

Lord Holland expressed his hope that his noble friend would persevere in his motion, as from all he heard in opposition it

tained that position, assert now that there was no such influence? If the ministers had the information communicated by lord Chatham at the time they gave the answer to the London address, then they were highly culpable; for it appeared that one of the commanders did in his of ficial Narrative accuse the other, a ground sufficient for inquiry. If, however, every thing of this kind had been concealed from them-if lord Chatham had availed himself of his situation as a privy counsellor, to give this Narrative to the King without the knowledge, not only of the admiral and the public, but even of his colleagues, what were their lordships to think of such proceedings? Was it consistent with their duty to pass over this species of secret influence without the severest censure? If it should appear that this Narrative had been given in without the knowledge of the ministers; if they were kept in perfect ignorance on this point, in what situation did they stand? They presented the disgraceful spectacle of a set of men submissive enough to continue in office without the confidence either of their sovereign or of their country.

The Earl of Westmoreland conceived, that the conduct of his Majesty's servants was highly justifiable in not instituting an inquiry, at so early a period, into the conduct of the commanders of the Scheldt Ex

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pedition. In the public documents there | charge against them. He could not but were no reflections against the admiral, admire the grace with which such an ob no blame attached to either of the officers, servation came from the noble lord. and therefore no grounds existed for in- he really felt ashamed to trouble their stituting inquiry. He then alluded to lordships with answering such observawhat he conceived to have been said by a tions. The noble earl often indulged himnoble lord opposite (Grey) on a former self in such general assertions, for the sake occasion, viz. that it was impossible to of effect, he supposed; but he begged possess the confidence of the crown and leave to state, that henceforth he certainly of the people at the same time. As to the should not think himself at all called upon confidence of the people, he did not feel to give them any answer whatever when it necessary to say any thing upon that urged in such a manner.-The merits of subject; but of this he could assure the the question, as to the Expedition to the noble lord opposite, that ministers did Scheldt, he would not anticipate. This not think themselves deprived of the con- much however was a matter of notoriety, fidence of the crown. His lordship seemed that an Expedition the greatest, as the to feel for them on that subject much more noble secretary had stated, that ever had than they did for themselves. On the been sent from this or any other country, subject of the Walcheren inquiry, his lord- on any occasion, had completely failed, ship expressed himself perfectly satisfied and that, under the most aggravating and that the ministers would come out of the disastrous circumstances, our brave troops trial with honour; that the country would having been so long exposed to perish, not think that they had done their duty; that by war, but by pestilence. And this was they had not only done their duty, but the state of things under which the noble that with the means they possessed they lord had held out, that he and his colwould have been bighly blameable if they leagues were so easy and confident; but had not made the attempt to destroy the parliament and the public however would arsenal at Antwerp. The conduct of mi- soon be enabled to decide upon that nisters, he said, would appear more bright matter.-He was ready to admit that the when compared with the incapacity of question at present before the House lay their predecessors. in a very narrow compass, being merely Earl Grey observed, that after the ex- as to the propriety of ascertaining whepression of confidence, which had escaped ther, on the 20th of December, when the the noble earl as to the complete justifica- answer was given, ministers were or were tion of ministers on the subject of the not in possession of the information which Scheldt Expedition, any thing which had had subsequently come out upon that subbeen uttered by the noble lord with re-ject. He agreed that ministers ought spect to himself personally, must appear but light. But since the noble lord had alluded to what had fallen from him some weeks ago, it would have been but fair to have quoted him correctly. He did not say that it was impossible to have the confidence of the crown and of the people at the same time. He had only expressed his regret at the sort of measures pursued, which, unfortunately had a tendency to disunite the sovereign and the country, and to hold the interests and consequently the confidence of both as incompatible. As to the observation about the incapacity of the late ministers, he felt that deeply, and he felt it the more severely, on ac'count of the peculiar sharp and acute manner in which it had been urged. He Lord Mulgrave entered into a defence of had never heard, however, that the late the conduct of sir R. Strachan, which, he ministers wished to avoid inquiry. The considered as wholly free from the slightest noble earl, if he thought their conduct possibility of imputation. He had been called for it, and he had every opportu-induced to give the advice which he had nity of knowing, ought to make a regular given to his Majesty on the subject of the

only to have called upon lord Chatham for information in the capacity of military commander; for it would have been abhorrent from the principles of the constitution, and unjust to the character of the admiral, to have received secret communications. His lordship then contended, that independent of the Narrative of lord Chatham, there were various circumstances stated in the dispatches, that called for inquiry, especially the change of measures after the sailing of the Expedition. He could not exactly collect from the arguments of the noble lord who spoke last; whether he meant to support or oppose the motion, but he was sure their lordships ought to support it.

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