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House.

fessional conduct was attacked, but that racter was assaulted, his honour aspersed,
his private honour was impeached, with and his reputation almost broken on the
what feelings of indignation would be him. wheel, and even heard his oppressors or
self view any proceeding which went to their advocates talk of the kindness and
deprive him of the opportunity of defence; the tenderness with which he has been
which went to allow his enemies or their treated.
advocates to indulge in the most acrimo. The Chancellor of the Erchequer defended
vious aspersions on his character, at the the conduct of the duke of Cumberland,
same time that it denied to him the means and contended that capt. Foskett. had suf-
of proving that the conduct of his accuser fered no injury, and that neither the duke
was the most malignant and reprehen- of Cumberland nor the commander in
sible? The inconsistence of the gallant chief had violated the 12th article or any
general's reasoning was most observable. / article of war in his case.
Captain Foskett, he said, was an officer Mr. Lockhart thought that the matter
whose general conduct was not good, but of the petition related almost entirely to
who so managed as to kcep within the the commander in chief, and not to the
circle which kept him safe from a court duke of Cumberland, against whom the
martial, and yet almost in the same breath complaint was made, and. whose name
he arraigned that very officer for his con- had been so frequently introduced in the
duct on the duel; conduct for which the debate. He could not avoid stating, that
gallant general would have brought him it appeared to him rather extraordinary,
to a court martial. Thus, according to that this petition should have found its
such reasoning, capt. Foskett, though a way into the ditlerent public papers, al-
bad officer, contrived to keep so within most as soon as it was presented to the
the line that he could not be brought to
court martial, although he was guilty of General Loft opposed the motion, upon
this alleged atrocious conduct, for which, the ground that capt. Foskeit had not
if in his regiment, the gallant general taken the steps which he ought to have
would have brought him to trial.- To the adopted for the attainment of redress.
principle, that the House should not light- Mr. Lyttleton said, that he was deter-
ly or rashly enter into investigation of mined to defend the character of the
military concerns of this kind, he most gentleman, who had placed in his hands
readily subscribed, at the same time that the subject of his complaint, and who
be thought it their duty to redress griev- depended upon his exertions for redress.
ances, where redress had been repeatedly It had been said, that many allegations
refused in those quarters constituted to af. introduced in the petition, were unnecesa
ford it. The hon. judge advocate had re- sary and improper. He was not respon-
marked that capt. Foskett had evinced no sible for the allegations contained in the
overstrained delicacy; without considering petition, but he wished that the House
the propriety of that delicacy which might would allow him to go into evidence upon
be termed overstrained, he would say, the subject. He denied the probability of
that that oficer had shewn no want of de- the statements made by the gallant ge-
licacy, and from the length of time which neral respecting the duel in which capt.
he remained silent under his heart-break- Foskett was concerned ; and conceived
ing wrongs, he proved himself a man of that the gallant general ought to bring
considerable temper. When he heard the forward his authorities upon a subject of
gallant general so philosophically talk of so important a nature, both to the cha-
the moderation and tenderness with which racter of capt. Foskett, and to the party of
capt. Foskett was treated, he was remind- whom he had complained, He concluded
ed of one of the most atrocious murders with observing, that if the papers were not
which disgraced the annals of human na- produced, there existed no chance of a
ture-it was that committed by Charles 12 fair elucidation of the subject. If those
on the gallant and patriotic col. Parcul. papers were studiously suppressed, the
When that gallant man was leading to the consequence would be most prejudicial to
stake to be broke alive on the wheel, he the cause of the duke of Cumberland, in-
was told that his majesty had remitted a stead of producing any possible service.
part of his torments: his exclamation in The House then divided, when there
reply was "Oh! what clemency ! So appeared, for the motion s. Against it $4.
could capt. Foskett exclaim, when his cha. Majority 76.

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HOUSE OF LORDS.

a commission to ascertain the whole and

entire value of all benefices. He also Friday, May 11.

moved for a return of the churches con

solidated under the acts of the 37th Henry [Poor Clergy. ] Lord Holland, on the villih, and 17th Charles IId, and for an sudije ct of which he liad given notice, en- abstract of the returns made by the bishops tered into a detail of considerable length, respecting the value of benefices in their for the purpose of shewing that the first dioceses. fruits and tenthis, which were now paid on The Archbishop of Canterbury denied the value of benefices, as ascertained in that the law remained as stated by the the reign of Ileory the Villth, ought to be noble lord, and quoted a clause in the act re-valued, so as to bear a proportion to of the 2d and 3d of queen Ame, referred the present value of benefices, and ren- to by the noble lord, in which it was dered a sailable for the purposes of Queen enacted, that the payments of first fruits Anne's Bounty to improve ihe situation of and tenths should thereafter be the same as the poorer clergy. Ilis lordship referred hai heretofore been paid. to several acts of parliament, leginning The Lord Chancellor was not quite clear with the 26 h of llenry Vilith, which first as to the meaning of this clause, thinking vested the first fruits and tenths in the it might refer to commissions issued by crown, and proceeding to the act of the the crown for ascertaining the value of 20 and 3d of Anne, which appropriated benefices; but supposing that to be law the first fruits and tenths to the fund known which was stated by the noble lord, be by the name of Queen Anne's Bounty, thought it ought to be repealed, as a most contended that it appeared from ail these vexatious system, and it being at the same sources, and also from a subs{ "juent act of time impossible to make such a valuation, George Ist, that the power still remained which must be annual, in order to ascerin the crown of issuing a commission for tain the tenths. Not conceiving it neces. the purpose of ascertaining the actual sary, therefore, to declare the facts convalue of benefices, with a view to the first tained in some of the noble lord's motions, fruits and tenilis derivable from them. as he could not agree to the plan proposed, To resort to this mode would, he contend- he therefore moved the previous question. ed, be greatly preferable to adding to the Lord Grenville was clearly of opinou burthens of the people by appropriating that the clause quoted by the most re100,0001, to Queen Anne's Bounty. There verend prelate was decisive on the point, would not at the same time be any in- as he thought it must have been in conjustice in such a measure towards the templation at the time the act passed, as church, as what was thus taken would what was likely to be the amount of the still be appropriated to the support of the fund called queen Anne's bounty, and that church. The estimated annual value of therefore the clause was introduced to the property of the church was about settle the amount of the payments of first 3,000,0001

. The sum required to increase fruits and tenths. He differed in opinion all livings under that sum to 100l. or 105). with his noble friend, as to the expediency per annum, was about 100,0001. and of the plan which his noble friend had to increase them to 150l. per annum, proposed, and objected particularly to the would require about 240,000l.

tax of first fruits, which he thought bore evident therefore, that the first fruits particularly hard upon those preferred to

tenths taken upon the actual benefices, who were necessarily put to value of bnefices might be rendered great expence in the first year of their available for all the purposes of Queen preferment. Anne's Bounty. It was, however, no The Earl of Harrowby and Lord Redespart of his plan that this fiesh valuation dale agreed in opinion with lord Grenville. should attach upon the present incum

Lord Holland was not aware of tlie bents, but upon their successors. His clause quoted by the most reverend prelordship concluded by moving eight re- late, and which he thought, as far as he solutions

, the first six stating the acts of was enabled to judge from nierely reading parliament which selated to this subject; it at the moment, decided the point

. He the seventh declaring, that by law the therefore withdrew his eight motions. Of power still remained in the crown ; and the other two motions, the first was, after the last, moving an address to his Majesty a short conversation, also withdrawn, and to carry the law into execution, by issuing the other was negatived.

It was

and

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

as

Mr. D. Giddy said, that before he I'riduy, May 11.

moved that this Report be laid upon the [Siv F. BURDETT's Notice to the Earl table, and also that it be printed, he thought of Morra.] The Speaker acquainted the for certain reasons, to have it taken into

it right to state his intention of moving, Ilouse, that he had received a Letter from consideration instanter. There were, acthe earl of Moira, Constable of the Tower, cording to his judgment, three modes of the contents of which related to his having had notice of a suit instituted against him proceeding in cases of this nature, from by sir F. Burdett. And the said Letter among which it would be for the House

to select the one most congenial with its was thereupon, by the direction of the llouse, read by the Speaker and is as

view of expediency. The first was, to followeth :

issue some process which might serve as an

inhibition to prevent the courts of law from “St. James's Place, May 10th, 1810. proceeding at all in actions under consi** Sir; Mr. Garrow, my counsel, having deration. But he did not understand that “ represented it as incumbent on me to there was any precedent for such a course.

impart the circumstance, I do myself As to the second mode, namely, that of “ the honour of informing you that I have committing all the persons concerned “ had notice of a suit instituted against me in bringing or promoting such actions,

Constable of the Tower by sir F. Buro he conceived that there was a variety of • dett, on the ground of illegal detention. precedents in support of the power of the " -I beg leave to explain, that, by this House so to commit if it thought proper. « communication, I do not mean to solicit The considerations of expediency, how.

your intervention : for I have directed ever, alluded to in the Report, and the at

my solicitor to defend the action, resting torney alone being at present engaged, " myself upon the Speaker's Warrant and

were against the adoption of this mode. “ instructions from the Secretary of State. There was, then, only one mode remain“ I have the honour, Sir, to be with great ing, and that was to plead to the actions, respect, &c.

Moira."

and let the parties sued shew to the court, The right hon. the Speaker of the that the acts .complained of were done in " House of Comnious''

consequence of the privileges of that House. [Proceedings RESPECTING Sır F. BUR. If the House should think proper to allow DETT's Notices.] Mr. Davies Giddy re. the Speaker and Serjeant to plead, it would ported from the Select Committee ap- then bave to consider what sort of plea pointed to consider of the proceedings had should be put in; whether a plea in abateand to be had with reference to the seve. ment, or a plea in bar. If the former, ral papers signed “ Francis Burdett,” the which would involve a denial of the juriscontents of which related to his being ap- diction of the court, that plea must be put prehended and committed to the Tower in the next day, of course, no time was to of London, and which papers were com

be lost. It was necessary, indeed, that municated to the House by Mr. Speaker proper measures should be prompıly taken, upon the 13th and 17th days of April last; and this necessity called for the immediate and to report such facts as they may consideration of the Report. The hon. think necessary, together with their opinion gent. concluded with moving, That the thereupon, from time to time, to the report do lie on the table. House; and to whom the matters stated Lord Milton felt it impossible to sit siby the Serjeant at Arms attending the lent after hearing the report which had House, and the process served upon him been just read. What! that the Speaker in an action at law by sir F. Burdett; and should be advised to appear in a court of also the summons served on Mr. Speaker law to defend an act done as the organ of and the notice of declaration delivered to that House of the representatives of the the Serjeant at Arms at the suit of the said people of England ! If this advice were sir F. Burdett, were referred ; That the acceded to, and that the court should go Committee had considered the matters re- on, that it should enter into the action, in ferred to them, and had directed him to what a state would that House be placed ? report the same, as they appeared to It would be defending itself in a court them, to the House.

from which an appeal would lie to the The Report (a copy of which will be House of Lords, and thus it might happen found in the Appendix to vol. 17, p. Ixxxi.] that the privileges of that House would be having been read,

decided upon in the other House of Parliament. He conjured the house to pause to guard those privileges entire and unbefore it became liable to a consequence broken which were so essential to the liso much to be deprecated. Would the berties of the people, and to the protection House be contented to place itself in such of the House itself against the prerogative a situation? Would it be willing to go of the crown. Let gentlemen consider back a century in its consequences that it the slightest invasion of the priviWould it, after the decisive victory it bad leges were admitted there was no knowing obtained in the Aylesbury case, consent where it would stop. The barriers once to surrender its dignity and power by broken down, it was difficult to say, bow surrendering the means of their security, far the invaders would proceed. by committing their defence to a court of while he was thus tenacious of the privi, law? Was it to be endured, that tbe pri- leges of the House, let it not be supposed, vileges of that House should be tried, per- that he would be any advocate for their haps overturned, by the decision of the abuses in the opposition of individuals. court of King's bench? While he opposed He was not however prepared to say, such a proceeding, he protested against the that the charge of abuse or injustice apother alternative of committing the par- plied to the case which gave rise to this ties concerned in bringing the actions discussion. The noble lord concluded which gave rise to this discussion. In- with an appeal to the House not to endandeed, there was no other party to which ger the best bulwark of the constitution such an order could apply, but the attor- and of liberty, by acceding to the recomney. But it would be improper, in his mendation of the honourable mover, by judgment, to adopt either alternative. submitting the privileges of that House to The House should not at all submit to have be tried in an inferior court. He ferrently its privileges brought into discussion in prayed that providence might avert from an inferior court. If one privilege was to the House the consequences of such a debe so discussed, then another and another cision. would be questioned, until all the power of Lord Folkestone had not intended to the House would be put to hazard if not trouble the House at this time, but froin overturned. In fact, he did not see the ne- the allusion to an expression from him overcessity of taking any step whatever in this beard by the noble lord who spoke last. case. If it were said that by taking no He did contend that there might arise a step the parties sued would be left unde state of things in which their privileges fended, he would answer no. That House might be disputed in a court of justice. had always the power to defend its pri. If they went the length to which the arvileges, and its officers against any violation guments used on this occasion seemed to from any quarter whatever, and if it took go, and if they would justify every exerno step whatever in this instance, it would cise of power for which they could find a

no worse situ on than it was at pre precedent, then they might do whatever sent. By these observations he wished to they pleased, and the person suffering guard the House against the monstrous under their act could bare no remedy. lengths to which it might be carried, if it To exemplify to what length this might submitted on this occasion to give up the be carried, he would suppose an extreme privileges which could alone render them case, for it was by supposing extreme cases an eficient body. Here the noble lord alone, that principles could be tried. took occasion to advert to the phrase of Suppose, founding themselves on prece« illegal privileges,” which he observed deni, they should commit a person for a had been just repeated by his noble friend limited time, was it to be contended, that near him (lord Folkestone). Was not his the subject could have no remedy against noble friend aware, he would ask, that the this arbitrary measure? Suppose they law of parliament was a part of the law were to fine or to pillory, a person, should of the land ; that it was as much a part the person aggrieved have no remedy? of that law as any of the common law; Suppose they had chosen to punish Mr. aye, or of the statute law either; he felt Gale Jones, as they had once punished a most strongly that any abatement of the person, by putting him on horseback, privileges of that Hlouse, which formed with his face to the tail, thus conducting such a vterial part of the law of parlia- him to Charing-cross, and after having ment, cocid not take place withoui a ge- put hiın in the pillory there, committed neral deterioration of the constitution. him to Newgate for life ; could not that Tue roble lord then exhorted the House exercise of power be legally disputed i If

2

they chose again to exercise this right, it of this to be, that few persons would take was monstrous to contend that they could the trouble to learn their nature and exthus treat any man, without being amen. tent, but any one might do so who would able to a court of justice. And yet it take that trouble. He approved of the would be the case, were they to plead suggestion, that the Speaker should plead against the jurisdiction of the courts in to the court in bar of the action now preference to putting in a plea in bar. brought against him. With regard to the Report, be lamented Mr. Whitbread observed, that the plain that ever a Committee had been appointed question before them now was, whether to give their opinion on this subject. He the Report should lie upon the table? and wished it had been left to the course of he would have interrupted his noble friend, law, without the interference of the House to remind him of this, but from a desire at all. He did not, however, quarrel with not to break in upon his speech. He was the Report; though it appeared to him to averse to this premature discussion, and be deficient in that species of information thought the right hon. the Chancellor of which the House most required from the the Exchequer, and his friends, who had Committee. It produced a case in the 3rd brought them into their difficulty, ought year of Charles the 1st, which went direct to state their opinions, and not now be ly against the opinion it recommended; allowed to gather from the feelings and for in this case the House had altered its borrow from the intellects on the other course, owing to proceedings in a court of side, the mode in which they might prolaw. The bill of rights had been often cure a vote to bear them through. " He referred to during these discussions, and wished to confine the present discussion to particularly that passage which declared the point of order, and on the ulterior that the proceedings of parliament were course of proceeding, before they gave not to be questioned out of parlia- their opinions on his side of the House, he ment. But the case before them had no thought it necessary that they should wait thing to do with what was done in, but to hear what the chairman of the Commitwhat was done out of parliament. He tee had to propose. maintained that it had not; for what had Mr. C. W. Wynn agreed with the last the breaking open of sir F. Burdett's doors Speaker, that a premature discussion of to do with what was done in parliament? any of the points connected with this subThe Report, in stating the case of sir John ject was to be deprecated, but it was imBilliot, &c. had omitied a very material possible to sit still or suffer any other sub. part of that case, namely, that the House ject to intervene, after hearing the very of Commons, not content with their own extraordinary doctrines advanced by the declaration, and the declaration of the noble lord behind him (lord Folkestone.) House of Lords, against the decision of In opposition to that doctrine, he held, the court of King's bench, had brought a that all the privileges of the House must writ of error into the House of Lords, to be discussed in the House, and no where have the sentence pronounced, reversed. else; and that when they first departed This prored that the House of Lords had from that, their ruin began. The noble been called on by the House of Commons lord supposed extreme cases—but he saw itself, to decide on its privileges. The nothing contrary to reason in the House Report also stated the case of sir Frances having the power to fine now, as they had Pemberton; and he was surprised that, in the year 1669 fined White 1,000l." The after the consideration of that case, any only thing to be considered was the time man could wish the Speaker to plead against when it was proper to exercise these rights. the jurisdiction of a court of law. It was He denied the court of King's bench held in that case that if the Speaker pleaded could interfere to remedy any abuses that the court was to consider, not the privileges might be committed by the House. It of the House of Commons, but, whether was the opinion of Mr. Fox, that it was the person against whom the action was the most absurd thing possible to argue brought had acted according to these pri- from extreme cases, in discussions on a vileges ? He held that the privileges of subject like the present, since, by the the House were known to lawyers; and nicety with which the component parts of though the opinion of lord Coke was often the constitution were balanced, and their quoted, to shew that they were known to action upon each other, all extreme cases but few parliament men; yet lord Coke were prevented. For instance, the King. in an after-passage, explained the reason might order the first regiment of Guards

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