amount in those three last years, that it should be at the disposal of Parliament, and applicable to cover the charge of the loan for either year; but if any deficiency should take place, that it was to be made good by Parliament. The principle of this resolution was certainly not that upon which his proposition was founded; because, if he were to take an average on three years, the excess would be 60,000l. more than he meant to take for the service of the present year. He had adverted to this resolution only to shew, that his proposition was not altogether a novel idea in that House. It might here be material, as well with a view to form a correct judgment upon the subject as for the satisfaction of the committee, to look briefly to the state of the trade, manufactures, and commerce of the country, in order to shew, that there was a just prospect that their expectation would not prove unfounded as to the stability of the means and resources of the empire. This would most satisfactorily appear from a reference to the comparative amount of the exports and imports at different periods. The official value of the imports last year was 36,253,2091. The prosperous year of peace (1802) was only 31,442,318. being an increase last year of nearly 5,000,000l. above the most prosperous year of peace. The exports of British manufactures last year amounted to 35,107,000l.; in 1802 they were only 27,993,1991. being a difference between sight and 9,000,000l. in favour of last year. The exports of foreign manufactured goods was last year 15,194,000. somewhat less than the amount of foreign exports in 1802, which was 19,152,000l. But it was most satisfactory to observe, that though the exports of foreign goods had decreased, the export of British manufactures had risen in a greater proportion, and that there was a greater increase upon the whole of 4,180,000l. the amount of all the exports having been last year 50,300,000l., whereas in 1802, they amounted to but 46,120,000l. Upon an average of the two last years, compared with the average of 1802 and the preceding year, the advantage was 3,108,300l. in favour of these two years of war over two years of peace. But if the advantage had even not been so much in favour of last year, the average would shew, that the country was not stationary, but progressive in prosperity. In Yorkshire alone the manufacture of cloth had in creased in the last year to the extent of 1,500,000 yards. But was not the growing prosperity of the country obvious in the great public works which were undertaken throughout the country-the great canals and extensive docks which were on all sides establishing? The progress of such undertakings, with as much spirit, activity, and enterprize, as in a time of the most profound and prosperous peace, was a certain indication of the flourishing condition of our trade, manufactures, and commerce. The Committee would, he trusted, excuse him for having called their attention to such topics which were so intimately connected with the subject of that day. It was of the highest consequence to shew, that the state of the industry, manufactures, and commerce of the country was such as to enable the nation to maintain the burthens it had to bear, and that whilst there appeared an increase in all, there could be no reason for consider. ing this a failing or a falling country, Though undoubtedly the Committee must be sensible that the pressure of the times may bear heavily upon some classes of their fellow subjects, a pressure which they must all equally lament, yet it was consolatory to reflect, that there was no ground for apprehending any material or extensive national calamity. But it was not only in our internal resources, but in our external means and strength, that the progressive prosperity of this nation was to be traced: This too had happily been made out to the conviction of our enemy. It was but a few years since that enemy had declared that all he wanted were ships, colonies, and commerce. If the attainment of such objects were his wish, what progress had be made towards their accomplishment? It was only by acquisitions from this country that he was to realize any one of them, and yet all the commerce that belonged to his empire it had lost; all the colonies that had belonged to him he had lost; and the few ships he had remaining were kept pent up in ports, without ever daring to put to sea. This was the government, too, whose measures were represented as founded in wisdom, and executed with ability, whilst the government of this country had been uniformly charged with weakness, ignorance, folly, and imbecility. He should detain the Committee with but one more observation, to shew that the operations of the wise measures of the orders in council, so much abused in this country, had had the effect of reducing the receipts of the customs in France froin 2,500,000l. to 500,000l. being a diminution of 4-5ths of its whole amount. This shewed how unavailing all the measures of the French ruler were to the accomplishment of his darling object. He should, therefore, not take up more of the time of the committee, but move, That the terms on which the Loan had been contracted for, should be approved of by that committee. Mr. Huskisson did not know whether his right hon. friend, in his very able statement, alluded to him as one of those who thought the country in a falling condition. -If he did, it must have arisen from a mistake, because he had neither thought nor said any such thing. He thought the country was in a state of progressive improvement, which, in a country where property was so well protected, could only be stopped by some convulsion. What he had said was, that it would be difficult to find new taxes, which would not be extremely objectionable-that there was a limit to taxation-and that we had nearly reached that limit; and that he was correct in all this, the statement of his right hon. friend most fully proved. He must himself have felt its force, before he could make up his mind to propose the mode which he intended to adopt to supply the means of the year. He had heard nothing from his right hon. friend in contradiction to what he (Mr. H.) had stated on a former occasion; and he really wished that something positive could be got from his right hon. friend upon this subject. He wished to know whether he thought it possible, for any great number of years, to continue adding from a million to 1,200,000l. every year to the public burthens? Whether he thought this would be sufficient on the present plan, even if it could be procured? and, Whether he hoped that the war could be continued in this way? His right hon. friend had not touched on these points; but he thought that his right hon. friend owed it to the country to state what his views were on the subject, supposing the war to continue for a great number of years, as, in all probability, it would. Supposing the presumptions balanced as to the long continuance of the war, and the speedy conclusion of peace; and this he thought was a very sanguine view of the matter; even then, he said, that it concerned us to look at our means of supporting it for a great number of years. VOL. XVI. He maintained, that without a reduction of the scale of our annual expenditure, it would be impossible to carry on the war for any long time. Even in the event of peace they would not be without their difficulties, as it would be expected that a considerable share of the public burthens should then be reduced. When his right hon. friend took part of the surplus of the consolidated fund to meet the additional charge of the present year, he did not much improve the prospect in the event of peace. He advised the House therefore to consider well the nature and extent, and applicability of their resources, with a view to peace and war. It was impossible always to go on in this way, from expedient to expedient; satisfied with getting over the difficulty of one year, without adverting to the accumulating difficulties of the next. He begged the House to consider to what, if they went on in this way, they would come at last? The hon. gent. here related an anecdote which was current in France before the revolution-some person asked the minister of finance how they were to go on for a number of years?-his answer was, that the state of things, such as it was, would last their time; and after them, no matter what became of the finances. In a few years after came that horrible catastrophe, the French revolution. He did not mean to say that any minister of this country would have uttered or conceived so worthy a sentiment; but if the House did not take an extensive view of the subject, and provide accordingly, it would not do its duty. He thought that by suitable reductions provision might be made for both alternatives, of peace and war, and that too without any diminution of our dominions or of the proper means of defence and carrying on the war. If he had not thought so, he would not have been so ready to come forward with his ideas on the subject. He had no doubt that this might be done.-He should not therefore in saying this, betray the secret of our weakness, but the measure of our strength. He would not then enter at length into the subject; but must say that next session it would be the duty of Parliament to consider it with attention. His right hon. friend had resorted to a source which would not avail in other years. If he could have found taxes to answer his purpose, it would have been a much better course, and one which no doubt he would have adopted. 3 Y un ment to look at the expenditure in their several departments, as applied to a favourite object of pursuit. It had been said that we might be in difficulties with regard to America; but it had not been stated that there was any particular reason to apprehend this. Then the use of a large reserve had been argued upon from the dispatch, which had been evinced in sending out the expedition to Copenhagen. Adverting to that part of the statement | practice for the several officers of governwhere the increase of the duty on stamps from 106,000l. to 1,200,000l. had been ascribed to the regulations and additions of 1808, he observed that the stamp duties had been consolidated in 1806, and had since been increasing by the usual growth of the revenue, and the better mode of collection, as well as by the new duties. There were some articles, such as bank paper, &c. in which a diminution might be calculated upon, though he allowed-But in 1801, a large Expedition had that an increase might be expected in other articles. He disavowed whatever share of merit might be ascribed to himself for any thing he had done in 1808 on this head. The sound principle was to take the whole of the taxes and the charge upon them. They were in some instances above, in others below the charge, although certainly upon the whole above. But this course of his right hon. friend would only create the necessity of adding another million to next year's loan, so that it was only shifting the ground; he might as well have placed the charge upon the war taxes. It was, however, a cheering part of the statement, that no additional burthen was to be created this year. With regard to the statement on the whole, however, he confessed he had been greatly disappointed. When the ministers had made up their minds to advise his Majesty to promise that the accounts would be made up with a rigid attention to economy, he had expected that a considerable reduction was to have taken place. He thought that reductions had been intended to be made in some of the larger establishments. He did not say that any very great diminution could be made; but he thought a reduction of some millions might be effected without injury to the country. He then adverted to the arguments which had been used by one of the lords of the Admiralty (Mr. Ward,) for keeping up the number of seamen to 145,000 men. It had been said that it was desirable to have a navy, not only sufficient to cope with the whole world at sea, but also a considerable reserve. To the general proposition, that it was desirable, he would assent; but then he must balance the advantages and disadvantages. It was customay for persons out of doors to say, that liberty was desirable--so it was in the abstract; but then the government of the country must so far infringe on that liberty, as to provide the ways and means of the year. He repeated, that it was too much the been sent to Copenhagen, and with great dispatch, when the number of seamen was much smaller, and the calls upon the service of the navy much larger. There were at that time no less than ninety-four sail of the line, French, Spanish, &c. B fore the battle of Trafalgar the enemy had large fleets, and the numbers of our seamen did not exceed 120,000 at that time. He thought that the distinction between the present naval war, and former wars of the same description, was not sufficiently attended to. The object formerly was to oppress the commerce of the enemy, but, now even with 200,000 seamen nothing in that way could be done. By the injury done to his commerce and revenue, we might have hoped formerly to have driven the enemy to reasonable terms of peace. Now, however, there was no hope of doing this by any such means. His right hon. friend had asked, what progress Buonaparté had made in his favourite object, of obtaining ships, colonies and commerce. But Buonaparté had altered his policy in that respect, for it seemed now to be his policy to destroy commerce altogether, and whatever deficiency might be occa sioned in his revenue, he would have no scruple in supplying by exactions of any kind. He had, besides, the command almost of the whole continent, and could draw his supplies from all quarters by land. He concluded by adverting to the state of Ireland, which had to raise five millions by extraordinary means. He deprecated any thing like despondency as to our resources, but at the same time urged the propriety and necessity of husbanding them as much as possible. Mr. Rose concurred in the wish of his hon. friend that every practicable retrenchment should be adopted, and that opinion he had already communicated out of doors. He felt strongly, that his right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would present himself before the House next sessions with a very bad grace, if he did not prove that the utmost attention had been paid to the economy in the public expenditure. But to what amount the wished for reduction of that expenditure would extend, he thought it impossible at present to calculate. There was happily however no reason to entertain any gloomy apprehension. But suffi cient for the day was the evil thereof. There would, he trusted, be a considerable reduction in the expenditure of the navy, as his hon. friend had estimated, from the present state of the enemy. As to the propriety of a provision for future years, and of an additional tax at present in lieu of the proposed appropriation of the surplus of the stamp-duty, he could not help observing, that we had done quite enough for our posterity, and he hoped, that they would be able to do as much for themselves. We had, in fact, made such arrangements for the benefit of those who are to come after us, that no less than 10 million per annum were set apart to relieve them from debt, which sum was more than the whole revenue of the country, when he first entered into public life. How the resources of the country had been so prosperous as the statement of his right honourable friend displayed, he declared himself unable to account. But somehow it appeared, that from the industry and ingenuity of our merchants, every prohibitory measure of Buonaparte's had utterly failed of their object. In fact, instead of limiting our trade, it had rather been extended in spite of the hostile proceedings of the enemy. Mr. Huskisson disapproved of his right hon. friend's sentiment in this instance, that sufficient for the day was the evil threof. On the contrary, he thought it would be wise in the present circumstances of the country, to consider of an arrangement of some permanent system calculated to guard against future evil. Mr. Tierney thought it necessary that some inquiry should be instituted as to the cause of the present state of our resources, in order to ascertain whether that cause was likely to be permanent, or merely of a temporary nature. This inquiry ap: peared the more necessary, as even an old member of the board of trade (Mr. Rose) professed himself unable to account for that prosperity upon which the House had been congratulated. As to retrenchment, he heard no proposal of it-he could see no sign of it-notwithstanding all the professions that had been made. He saw a vote of credit equal to that of the last year, when we had Austria and Sweden to subsidize ; and this vote too in addition to that already granted to Portugal. What then could be the object of this vote? It certainly required explanation. As to the rise in the price of three per cent. stock, he thought it owing to artificial causes, by no means indicative of national prosperity, although enabling the right hon. gent. to conclude the loan upon such advantageous terms. But the right hon. gent. seemed to have had a great deal of good luck to help him out in his difficulties. In the first year of his financial duties, the loan had been provided by his predecessors; in the second year between three and four hundred thousand of annuities fell in; and now a surplus produce of taxes offered, which, however, he thought the right hon. gent. was grossly misapplying when setting them apart to pay the interest of the loan. This surplus ought rather in his judgment to be included in the produce of the consolidated fund, to which it properly belonged, and a new tax imposed to defray the interest of the loan. But the right hon. gent. by his measure broke a wisely established principle, merely to make a fetch at popularity, by a shew of declining new taxes. This, however, all thinking men must feel to be mere delusion. For the sum thus taken from the consolidated fund must be again supplied by new taxes; and if the right hon. gent. should go on from year to year, appropriating a part of the surplus of the consolidated fund to pay the interests of his loans, it was obvious the public could not ultimately be gainers. But the right hon. gent. was in fact violating his contract with the public creditors, who lent their money upon the security of the stamp tax, by appropriating the surplus of its produce to the payment of the interest upon a new loan, and he was also neglecting to make provision for the future. Was the right hon. gent. aware, while he thus declined to look to future difficulties, that he would in the event of peace the next day be obliged to find nine or ten millions a year of new taxes? Why then be so improvident on this occasion? He was not one of those who despaired of the resources of the country, or wished to damp its spirit, but he would strongly recommend it to the right hon. gent. to look minutely into our situation. With that view he advised the right hon. gent, at an early part of the next sessions, to institute a similar inquiry to those which took place in 1782 and 1796. The necessity for such an investigation was obvious. For the satisfaction of the House and of the country it ought to be immediately entered into. He was persuaded that the right hon. gent. did not himself know how the country was going on, or how to calculate upon the means of our future provision. It was not for the right honourable gentleman then in the present state and prospect of Europe, to be contented with the making of shifts for a session or two, but to lock to some permanent system-to look particularly to the reduction of our expenditure, for which no disposition whatever was manifested by him, and above all in future to abstain from crippling the consolidated fund. The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that the terms upon which the loan had been that day negociated were in his opinion, the best proof of the increasing wealth and resources of the country, and gave the best assurance of hope that in future the people would be enabled to bear those burthens which the necessities of affairs might require. With respect to the prosperous state of the country, and the application of the revenue, he agreed with his hon. friend and the right hon. gent. that under any government less disposed to pay attention to measures of economy, it might rather be productive of evil than good. It however could not be denied that there were considerable diminutions in many of the items of the public expenditure, though certainly not in so great a degree as that the committee could look to them as any material saving. In the ordnance there was a saving this year of 1,500 000l.-In the army 800,000l. but there was most assuredly an increase in the navy expence of between 2 and 300,000l. It would be recollected, however, with respect to the increase in the navy, that he had stated formerly that expectation from the necessity of making an addition to the number of seamen of 15,000 more than the number employed in the former year, for the purpose of affording assistance to our allies in Spain. The right hon. gent. then proceeded to vindicate the appropriation of the surplus of the stamp duties, which he proposed. He contended that the additions and regulations made in 1808 had produced much more than was originally estimated. This was a mistake in the former calculation, and the only way of correcting that mis take was by applying the surplus to the relief of the public from any new tax. He denied that this surplus could be fairly deemed as a part of what was called the surplus of the consolidated fund, and therefore the right honourable gentleman's objections were inapplicable. That there was a saving in the proposed expenditure would, he asserted, be obvious to any man who examined the several heads of expence, particularly in the ordnance, the army and navy. As to the vote of credit, another opportunity would occur for discussing that topic. But although, from the present state of Europe, it was deemed expedient to place such a sum at the disposal of his Majesty, it did not follow that it would be expended. With respect to the right honourable gentleman's allu sion to his good luck, he observed, that the right hon. gent. seemed quite sore upon that point. But the effects of this good luck, as the right hon. gent. would have it, furnished another obstacle to the wish of his right hon. friend. For it appeared that notwithstanding all the drivelling and blundering ascribed to him and his colleagues, the country was thriving under their government, and in a state of pros perity, which the right hon. gent. and his friends, with all their talents, could not deny. As to the reduction which had taken place in the production of the malt duty, that notoriously arose out of the stoppage of the distilleries, which could only be of a temporary duration; and he had the satisfaction to think that this was the only branch of our revenue which had suffered in the slightest degree a diminution. The right hon. gent. concluded with observing, that he did not mean, in his allusion to his hon. friend (Mr. Huskisson) to insinuate that his hon. friend meant, in a former declaration of his, to create the false impression respecting our means, which it certainly produced. But he thought it right to advert to it, as the present appeared a proper opportunity for removing that impression. Mr. H. Thornton was apprehensive that the calculation upon the surplus of the consolidated fund would be found to be rather vague and uncertain; the produce in consequence of the act of the year 1808, upon that fund, which had been so much relied on, was in great part owing to the product of the duties upon stamps, rather than to any new taxes imposed at that time. The great object would be to keep the income and expenditure of the |