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(Navy ESTIMATES.) The House re- mies. The fleets of Spain were in a solved itself into a Committee of Supply. dubious state, and the largest fleet might

Mr. Croker proposed a vote of 1,165,0001. be raised at Antwerp-and this might be 158. lid. for the ordinaries of the navy. more dangerous than any other. There

Sir Charles Pole asked, whether the pre- was an addition of enemies in the North, sent number of seamen, amounting to and it was necessary to have our fleets 146,000 might not be reduced to 130,000? there to protect our trade. The fleet of If such a reduction should be deemed eli- Russia was increasing, and the fleet of gible, he proposed that old seamen who Sweden might be turned against us, though had served from 18 to 20 years, should be there was no sentiment of hostility from discharged. He wished that these esti- that country at present. The Danish mates had been referred to a select Com- fleet was also to be considered. All these mittee, as had been done sometimes, in considerations shewed the necessity of order to ascertain with more exactness keeping up the English fleet.

We must what reductions might be made. He be able to cope with the navies of the found they had considerably increased whole world. Besides those regularly since last year upon the civil establish- employed, there ought to be a body of ment of the navy. He contrasted the reserve; the advantages of which had great advance which had taken place in been already felt, in the case of the Cothe salaries of the civil department, with penhagen expedition, in the facility with the slow progress, and in some respects which ships had been seni to the Tagus, diminution of the pay of the military de- and in bringing off the army of sir J. partment. As an instance, he mentioned Moore. The possibility of a rupture with the lieutenants of the 1st and 2d rates, America, was also to be considered, though whose pay was 6s. a day in 1694, and was he did not know that there were any still the same, subject to the deduction of symptoms of that at present. the income tax. The increase altogether view it was proper to keep up the estain the civil department appeared to be blishment. 500,0001. He thought the men engaged Captain Parker was adverse to the rein harbour duty might be discharged. duction of the harbour duty men, and to He also suggested that a saving might be the discharge of old seamen.

It might made by reducing part of the press gangs. be very injurious to the service. The im

Mr. R. Ward was surprised that the press was serviceable, not only in procurhon. admiral should say, that there was ing men, but in preventing desertion. an addition of 500,0001. on the civil de- Lord Cochrane rose and said: Sir; Inpartment of the navy estimates above those disposition has prevented me from subof last year. On the contrary, the addi- mitting to the consideration of this House, tion on the whole of the estimates did not those matters respecting which I had given amount to much more than half the sum. notice, and the same cause has disabled In a great many articles there was a con- me from paying that attention to the Navy siderable diminution, on account of so Estimate, which I should have done, and many ships of the line having been which I might have done, had this estilaunched last year, which rendered it un mate, completed in Feb. 7, been printed necessary to build many more this year; and delivered to us in proper time, instead there was also a diminution in the expence of a few days ago, for which, however, I supof the sca fencibles, and in the article of pose, there was some weighty reason. Nottransports. There was so much additional withstanding these disadvantages, enough business in the civil service that the in- will probably appear, to shew the nature crease of salary was necessary, but the in. of the thing, and first, as to the manifest crease here was not above 20,0001. There injustice of the pension list.-An admiral, was also some advance in the office of the worn out in the service, is superannualed admiralty records, which had been ad-at 4101. a year, a captain of the navy at mirably regulated by the exertions of Mr. 2191.; while the clerk of the ticket office Pindus. There was an increase necessa- retires on 7001.--The widow of admiral rily in the victualling department, owing sir Andrew Mitchell has one third of the to the excess in the army victualling. allowance to the widow of a commisHe contended against the policy of reduc- sioner of the navy.-Martha, widow of ing the navy, which was at present in so admiral Bourmaster, 75l.; Mary Hammuch splendour, and which would, he mond, a commissioner's widow, 3001. hoped, always be the terror of our ene. Elizabeth, widow of captain Blake, 60l.;

Elizabeth, widow of commissioner Lane, upon examination, that the Wellesleys re3001.-Four daughters of the gallant ceive from the public 34,1291., a sum equal captain Courtenay, 121. 10s. each; daugh- to 426 pair of lieutenants' legs, calculated ter of admiral sir Andrew Mitchell, 251: ; at the rate of allowance for lieutenant two daughters of admiral Epwort, 251. Chambers' leg:--Calculating by the peneach ; daughter of admiral Keppel, 25l. ; sion for captain Johnson's arm, viz. 15., Elizabeth, daughter of captain Mann, who lord Arden's sinecure is equal to the vawas killed in action, 251.; four children lue of 1022 captain's arms.—The marof admiral Moriarty, 250 each.-Thus 13 quis of Buckingham's sinecure alone, in daughters of admirals or captains, several the net, will maintain the whole ordinary of whose fathers fell in the service of the establishment of the victualling departcountry, receive from the gratitude of the ments at Chatham, Dover, Gibraltar, nation a sum less than dame Mary Sax. Sheerness, Downs, lleligoland, Cork, Malton, the widow of a commissioner.-This ta, Mediterranean, Cape of Good Hope, pension list is not formed on comparative Rio de Janeiro, and leave 5,4601. in the rank or merit, length of services, or any treasury.---Two of these comfortable rational principle, but appears to be de- sinecures, would victual the officers and pendant on parliamentary influence alone; men serving in all the ships in ordinary for lieutenant Ellison, who lost his arm, is in Great Britain : viz. in 117 sail of the allowed 911. 5s.; and captain Johnson, line, 105 frigates, 27 sloops, 50 hulks. Lieutenant Arden, who lost his arm, has dock yard establishments at Portsmouth 911. 5s.; lieutenant Campbell, lost his leg, and Plymouth; and, by the addition of a has 401.; and poor lieut. Chambers, who lost few more, would amount to as much as both his legs,'has only 80l. while sir A. the whole ordinary establishments of the S. Hammond retires on 1,500l. per ann. royal dock yards at Chatham, Wool-The brave sir Samuel Hood, who lost wich, Deptford, and Sheerness; and the his arm, 500l. ; while the late secretary sinecures and offices executed wholly by to the Admiralty retires, in full health, deputy would more than maintain the orwith a pension of 1,5001.- To speak dinary establishment of all the royal dock less in detail, 32 fiag officers, 22 cap- yards in the kingdom. To return to this tains, 50 lieutenants, 180 masters, 36 pension list : I observe that pensions surgeons, 23 pursers, 91 boatswains, 97 given by the Whigs to commissioners, gunners, 202 carpenters, 41 cooks, cost clerks, and others, whom they forced out the country, 4,0281. less than the net to make room for their friends, amounted proceeds of the sinecures of lord Arden, in 13 months, to about 1,508l. more than 20,358h ; Camden, 20,586l.; Bucking- the present aılministration have, by this ham, 20,6931.-All the superannuated list, given away in nearly three years that admirals, captains and lieutenants, have have elapsed since And the right hobut 1,0121. more than earl Camden's si- Dourable gentleman, (Mr. Ponsonby.) necure. - All that is paid to all the who, two nights ago made, so pathetic an wounded officers of the British navy and appeal to the good sense of the people of to the wives and children of those dead or England against those whom he was pleaskilled in action, does not amount, by ed to call designing men and demagogues, 2141., to as much as lord Arden's sine actually receives for having been is cure alone, 20,358l.-What is paid to months in office, a sum equal to nine the mutilated officers themselves, 11,4081. admirals, who have spent their lives in 16s. is but half as much.-Is this jus. the service of their country; three times tice? Is this the treatment which the as much as all the pensions given to all officers of the navy deserve at the hands the daughters and children of the adof those who call themselves his Majes mirals, captains, lieutenants, and other ty's government? does the country know officers who have died in indigent cir. of this injustice? Will this too be defende cumstances or been killed in the service! ed? If I express myself with warmth 1 and as much as would pay the officers trust in the indulgence of the House; I and men employed in the fifteen hulks cannot suppress my feelings. Should of the line in ordinary.-From the mithirty one commissioners, commissioners nute expences noticed in this estimate, wives, and clerks, have 3,8991. more | viz. for oiling clocks, killing rats, and among them, than all the wounded of keeping cats, I should have supposed that ficers of the navy of England ? I find, great care was taken to have it very core

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rect. It was, therefore, with much sur-ject, (contemptible idea !) The paltry prise, I found the name of my worthy and increase of cost will be more than comrespected grandmother, the widow of pensated by the superior wear of the canthe late captain Gilchrist of the navy, vas, independent of its strength, on which, continued on the list, as receiving 100l. consequently, depends the safety of the per annum, though she ceased to exist 8 ship, and the preservation of the lives of years ago ! -I shall dwell no longer on all on board. I shall, no doubt, hear it this subject than just to notice, that while urged, that a remedy is about to be apall this profuse waste of the public money plied; and so it has been ever since I can is going on, the builders in our naval remember : but remedies and, redress at yards, on whose ability and attention so public boards are sought in vain; and so much depends, have only 720l. per annum it is with respect to the hardships noticed salary, that is only 201. more than a re- by an honourable admiral, imposed on tired clerk of the ticket office. The old and wounded sailors by the harbour petty perquisite of a silver cup, given to duty; which is justly considered by them them when they launched, and thereby as oppressive in the highest degree, more added a ship to the British navy, was grievous than all the other hardships to taken from them as a saving to the which they are subject.—Should the latter nation, by the mischievous and contemp- days of a life, spent in the service of the tible admiralty of 1802. Such are the country, be those in which the severest pretended savings, by which, when any dury is imposed, and that too, when are made, the country is doped.-Were wounds and infirmities have rendered men there a prospect of success, I could point unequal to the task ? One person who out to a committee of the House some contends for its continuance says it is a savings worthy attention.—The canvas laborious duty, and must be executed. department (though by no means free) | This reason is conclusive, in my mind, yet, least supported by political intluence. why it should not be imposed on those, is probably that in which the abuses whose infirmities have rendered them unmight be most easily corrected. I will equal to the task. No good conduct, or undertake to prove that, by adopting can- character from his captain, can, under the vas of a better quality, a saving equal to present system, free an old seaman from one-fourth of the British navy may be this misery. I well remember the sad made—a saving, equal to the additional case of William Farley, an infirm petty income tax imposed by the Whigs. The officer; a man of respectable character, remaining three-fourths of the ships will in my own ship, who, I think, had been in be more effectual than the whole, their 13 general actions, and about 20 years in velocity will be increased upwards of half the service; he was sent to be invalided, a mile in seven miles ; and thus every one that, by a change, hiş impaired health will be enabled to capture those ressels might be restored, and that he might pass which at present escape from them all ; his latter days in peace. He was conas beside its bad quality, the enemy know demned to harbour duty, but obtained our ships of war from foreign ships by leave to return to his ship. After a time, the colour of the canvas, consequently run being still unable to do ihe smallest duty away the moment they perceive our black in the ship, he was again surveyed: the sails rising above the horizon; a circum- same decision passed. Whether this hapstance to which they generally owe their pened a third time, I do not recollect; but safety, even more than to its open texture. of this I am certain, that he died on board I have observed the meridian altitude of off Brest. My gunner's mate (I think the sun through the fore topsail, and by his name was Ford) was invalided too for bringing it to the horizon through the this heart-breaking service, and such was foresail, ascertained the latitude as cor. his abhorrence of it, that, by permission rectly as otherwise I could have done of the lords of the Admiralty, he proAny man who knows black from white cured two substitutes, who cost him 901. can distinguish the difference, as you will sum equal to all that with the greatest perceive by the colour of the samples economy he could save in ten years from which I now shew you.--This (ihe his pay. Is such a recompence for ser, white) is used by the Spaniards, Portu-vices ? If meant as a benefit, as asserted guese,

Dutch, Russian, Danish, American, by one officer, it should be optionable and in fact by all ships except ours. The dif- not compulsive. If grievances exist, they ference of price has been stated as an ob- should be examined into and redressed, POL. XVI.

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that is the mode to prevent bad conse: pension list in a manner that did not apquences or complaints. We have heard pear to him to be very candid. The much about "deluding" the public; an noble lord had stated different cases from unfounded statement can injure only the the pension list, but he had omitted what individual who makes it. These subjects in fairness he ought to have mentioned, are worthy of being examined by a Com- viz. the dates of the cases which he had mittee of the House, or a deputation; such quoted, because, the Committee must be as was ordered lately to Sombrero.-Al. aware that a considerable variation had though perbaps not immediately arising taken place in the value of money, and out of that part of the Naval Estimate, that what would have been a considerable which is before us, I may be permitted to provision thirty years ago, certainly was ask why are not the Ships abroad paid, as not so at present; but the noble lord had well as the Army? What inconvenience cited all the cases as if they were of recent would result? We scruple not to export date, and as if the present administration large sums for other purposes, less bene- were answerable for them all. He would ficial to the country than the exertions of venture, however, to contend that no inour seamen, whose money is annually in- stance could be found in which the precluded in the Naval Estimate, although it sent board of Admiralty had not in grantis not paid to them. The petty officers ing rewards to officers for wounds which and seamen in the East and West Indies, they had received in the service, or in Cape of Good Hope, Mediterranean, Ame- providing for the families of deceased of. rica, in fact, every where abroad, do not ficers, gone as far as they were justified receive one shilling of pay until they are by precedent, and in many instances ha permitted to return to England, often after would take upon him to say, higher penan absence of twelve or fifteen years ! - sions had been lately given than had ever The Boston's crew, who formed one half been known before. The Admiralty acted of my ship's company, joined the Pallas in all cases upon one regular uniform syswith nine years pay due, although the tem; when an application was made, Boston had been all that time within they ordered an investigation, and proabout fourteen days sail of England ! iceeded according to certain rules laid should like to know where all this money down anportioning the reward according is lodged ?

to the rank and suffering of the person Mr. Wellesley Pole said, that the noble who claimed the reward, without regard lord who had just sat down, had made to any other consideration. For the acone of the most extraordinary speeches, curacy of his assertions upon this subject, that he believed had ever been delivered he would appeal to any naval ofñcer in in that House, upon the question of the the House, and he was sure that not one Navy Estimates. The noble lord had of them would assert that the present or occupied the time of the Committee with any board of Admiralty, had ever suffered discussing a variety of topics, which had their decisions upon cases of this kind to no connection with the points then under be influenced by feelings of a political consideration, but which it seemed of late to nature. If the Admiralty did in any case be thought necessary to bring before the deviate from the strict letter of their duty, public on all occasions, and which, in- it proceeded from their anxiety to make deed, had been so often obtruded upon as large an allowance, as the nature of the the House, that they had become quite case would possibly admit. He would trite and hackneyed. He had represented now, with the permission of the Commitministers as totally regardless of economy, tee, advert to some of the cases which and as distributing public rewards, not had been mentioned by the noble lord. for public service, but for the gratification One of them was that of captain Dickson, of party feeling, and for the promotion of whose pension had been represented as party purposes. He certainly should not by no means adequate to the sufferings follow the noble lord through all his de- he had undergone. The facts of this case riations from the sụbject then under con- were simply these; Captain Dickson sideration, but he would, with the per-when a lieutenant, bad distinguished bimmission of the Committee, make some ob- self by a very gallant exploit, in which servations upon the very few remarks he was severely wounded. The Admiwhich had fallen from the noble lord upon ralty, upon that occasion did every thing the real question before the committee. that was in their power to do ; they imThe noble lord had discussed the navy mediately promoted bim to the rank of

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commander, and they settled upon him his however would consider, that the com. full pay as a lieutenant, and yet the noble missioners of the navy were chosen from ford' had thought proper to select this the captains of the navy, of long standing,

case, as one affording ground of charge for their knowledge of the civil part of against the Admiralty. Another case

that service, and that when they accepted mentioned by the noble lord, was that of the office of a commissioner, they gave admiral Moriarty's children, whose pen up the emoluments and the honours of sions he considered as insufficient; but their profession, and he was rery sure that when the Committee was informed of the unless the temptation of a pension of 300l. real circumstances of this case, they would a year for their widows, was held out to see that the noble lord had as little ground them, very few, indeed, who were qualified for censure, as he had in the former one. for the office, would consent to accept it. The noble lord knew that the widow or This was the ground upon which ihese children of an admiral, were not entitled, pensions were granted, and he was constrictly speaking, to any pension. It was vinced that the Committee would be of found, however, upon admiral Moriarty's opinion that the money was wisely and death, that his children had been left beneficially laid out for the public serrather in distressed circumstances, and vice. With regard to those pensions upon application a pension of 1001. per which the noble lord considered as being annum was granted to them. Larger too small, he begged leave again to state, pensions had certainly been granted, but that the present board of Admiralty was, that was where the admiral had fallen in upon all occasions, anxious to go as far action when employed in active service, as they possibly could in bestowing reor had been particularly distinguished. wards, and upon some occasions they had Admiral Moriarty did not die, while on availed themselves of particular prece- . active service, nor had he ever been at dents to grant more than was strictly jussea, as an admiral. Another circum- tified by general usage.

In addition to stance with which the noble lord had the pension list, the board of Admiralty found fault, and upon which he had laid had last year brought forward an estab. particular stress, was, that sir Andrew lishment of a compassionate list, similar to Hammond had been permitted to retire that which had been formed for the army, upon 1,5001. per year. Mr. Pole said, thereby evincing the anxiety they felt that it really was with the utmost asto- | for the comfort of the families of the offi. nishment that he heard the noble lord cers of the navy. Mr. Pole observed, urge this as a ground of charge. Sir An- that the noble lord had brought all his drew Hammond was a veteran of fifty observations upon the Pension List to this years standing. During the former part result; that it was clear that the merits of that period he had been employed in of officers were left wholly out of the the most active service ; he had distin- question, and that nothing but parliaguished himself upon many occasions, and mentary interest and influence could had deservedly acquired a high reputation. gain any like justice for any officer, howDuring the latter part of his professional ever meritorious his services might be ; life his time had been devoted to the ser that all rewards w

were apportioned acvice of his country, in discharging the cording to interest, and that the services duties of the civil part of the naval de- of the navy were wholly overlooked, unpartment. The noble lord himself, a less they were put forward by the parprofessional man, could not be igno- liamentary friends of the minister. Now tant of the eminent and important ser- this assertion of the noble lord's was most vices of sir Andrew Hammond as Comp- extraordinary. That such an accusation troller of the navy, and therefore he should be brought forward by the noble ought to have been one of the last men lord, astonished him more than the same to censure government for permitting this sentiment could have done, coming from distinguished officer to retire after 50 any other quarter. That noble lord, who years active and meritorious service, with was, in his own person, the strongest 'exà comfortable and honourable provision. ample that could be produced of the inThe noble lord had also expressed great justice of the accusation he had brought dissatisfaction at the amount of the pen against the government. For he would sions granted to the widows of the com- venture to assert, without fear of being missioners of the navy, which he consi- contradicted, that there never was an indered as much too large. The Committee stance of more ample justice being done

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