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fund was not to be touched, unless by a kind of bargain with the stockholder, who was to have his quid pro quo from the public. But he wished to be informed what quid pro quo was to be given to the stock holder when the noble lord came to take the excesses of the sinking fund. The principle laid down by the noble lord on this subject could not be acted upon, and he would be obliged to abandon it." Parliament had unquestionably a right to exercise its discretion respecting a sinking fund; but here he begged to state, that he should not wish for any measure to be adopted that would prove injurious to the public creditor, and he contended that the interest of the public creditor would be best consulted by the adoption of either of his suggestions than by the plan proposed by the noble lord. If the sinking fund was to be touched at all, it would in either of the cases suggested by him be touched in a manner less liable to objection than in the manner proposed in the new plan. The excesses as calculated on in the new plan would be available both in war and in peace, and at the disposal of the minister, whereas according to his plan the excesses could only be taken during war, when loans would be necessary. His plan would afford a greater principle of limitation on the discretion of parliament respecting these excesses; besides, the interest of the stockholder was materially con cerned in keeping up the value of capital in the market, and it would be impossible to effect that, when in the last period a loan of thirty-two millions annually would be raised, nay of forty or fifty millions, in consequence of the rise of stores, the deprecia. tion of money, and an increase of expenditure. Small loans with a small sinking fund, would be much more beneficial to the stockholder than a loan of that amount with a sinking fund of twenty seven millions. The noble lord had that night, in express terms, admitted that his system was founded upon a principle of raising money upon a compound interest, though he contended for the advantage of a compound benefit. But he had no doubt, that the noble lord upon reflection, would perceive how unwise a principle that was. The noble lord proposed to borrow money to pay the interest of his war loans, as well as the interest upon that interest. What would be the effect of such a statement going forth to Europe? and he could not see any other view in bringing forward the plan at present, but to exhibit it to Europe. There were good calculators, he wished the noble lord to recol

lect, in Europe, and particularly in that part of it with which we were at present at issue, and they could not fail to discover the fallacy of a system built upon compound loans and compound interest, a system which must inevitably lead to bankruptcy. There was only one authority upon which the noble lord could justify such a system, and he thanked God, that his late right hon. friend afforded no such authority. There had been but one person who, as a public man, could declare to a nation that he would provide for the expences of a war, and for the interest of the debt incurred, by loan without taxes. That man was Mr. Necker; and he trusted the example was one which the noble lord would not be ambitious to imitate. After the difficulties experienced last year with respect to taxes, and the gloomy representations which had been made, without foundation, as it appeared to him, of the finances of the country, it was somewhat extraordinary to have this plan proposed for raising above four hundred millions upon a fund of two millions and fifty-one thousand pounds. The noble lord seemed to have found the philosopher's stone, and certainly it would appear to Europe, as if there was conjuring in it. But from the effect of his plan, it would appear that the noble lord had discovered the negative philosopher's stone, which his right hon. friend (Mr.Tierney) would explain to him-the power of spending money with out creating resources. He here begged leave to repeat, that the noble lord's system would increase the public debt ninety millions; and contended, that there was a most striking difference between its effect, and that of the pure operation of the present system, or of either of the plans which he had himself suggested. The amount of debt under the noble lord's system, at the end of fourteen years, would be 429,386,000l. the amount of debt under his suggestion, 369,955,000l. which would give an increase of debt of 59,000,000l. The sinking fund, in the former case, would be 27,000,000l. in the latter 11,140,000l. the war taxes however, would be completely bound in the former case, and be completely free in the latter, and allowing for the reduction by amount of excesses, it would be brought within a fraction of the same proportion to the debt under the noble lord's plan, as the sinking fund would bear to the debt under his present suggestion. The noble lord had said that the whole of the war taxes would be pledged, yet on the return of peace it would be open to determine what taxes

might be substituted for any part of them. | the first sum of eleven millions, nineteen for The consequence would be, that the whole the second, and so on in proportion. This amount would be to be laid on in a period would amount to something upwards of of peace, when the energies and zeal of a 144,000,000l. of interest, in the whole, at period of war would be relaxed, in the place the end of the time stated. The noble lord of being gradually laid on as the occasion had stated, that the interest, according to may require; and the minister of the day his calculation, would amount to only the would be placed in the situation of devising sum of 14,056,0004, or something thereameans for raising the whole at once,amount- bouts. This immense difference arose from ing to eight or nine millions, instead of hav- his mistake in not having taken any idea of ing the twenty-one millions of war taxes at the accumulating interest along with him as his disposal. There would be ten millions he proceeded. The plan of his noble friend two hundred thousand pounds of the war (lord Henry Petty) whilst his calculations taxes made permanent, and there would were fair and correct, had also this advanconsequently remain but 10,800,000l. to be tage over that of the noble lord (Castlesuccessively set free. Against such a doc- reagh), that at the expiration of the term trine he entered his protest. As to the proposed, it would leave the sinking fund plan he had suggested, he had thought that entirely free and unfettered as to its future by the explanation he had given, he had sa- operation. ved the noble lord the trouble of making an attack upon his own principles. The whole of what the noble lord had said on that head, went to prove, that it would be more dangerous to act upon his principles for nine years, than for twenty years. His plan went on the ground of a nine years expenditure; and certainly, with the same funds, would add much less to the debt, than the supplementary loans of the noble lord. He agreed that he could not go on further without fresh taxes, but if a peace should take place at the end of that period, or be fore, no new taxes would be necessary. The system of double loans and compound interest of the noble lord would only lead to bankruptcy and ruin, and certainly would bear no comparison either with the present system or either of the suggestions which he had the honour to make by way of modification of the noble lord's plan.

Lord Castlereagh insisted that the error was not his; he had taken the statement from the tables C, F, and G, of the chancellor of the exchequer's plan.

Mr. Giles observed, that was where the noble lord was in error. He only took a view of part of the amount of interest, whereas if he had looked into table L, he would have found that it summed up the whole.

Mr. Davies Giddy highly applauded the plan of the noble lord (H. Petty). He had made some calculations upon the subject himself, and had taken some time to consider the plan which that noble lord had laid before the house; and he found that it united all the physical and moral powers that were necessary for the attainment of the object which he had in view. It was with arithmetical calculations as with the machinery used in mechanics; the operating power Mr.Giles declared that he would not have must be proportioned to the weight or sum risen at that late hour, but that he saw one which it has to raise On this principle he general error pervade the whole system of found the noble lord's system to be corthe noble lord (Castlereagh), which he rect in all its parts with making only the nethought it was incumbent on him to state to cessary allowance for any thing that might the noble lord and the house. If he proved hereafter accidentally impede the operations the existence of this one fundamental error of the machinery. It also possessed the mothroughout the whole of the noble lord's state- ral power of exciting the confidence and ment, he thought that that might in itself energy of the people.The resolutions were be sufficient to induce the house to reject then read and agreed to. The house rethose calculations which had so much of falla- sumed, and the report was ordered to be recy in their foundation. The noble lord pro-ceived on Wednesday next. posed a loan of eleven millions, for twenty years, without ever mentioning, or taking into his consideration, according to the cal culations in his own papers, the accumulating interest for that period. The sum borrowed would amount to 220 millions; the interest to accumulate on the different sums to borrowed would be twenty-three years for

HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, February 17. [MINUTES.] In the committee of privilege, Mr. Adam was heard on behalf of the claim of Charles Augustus Ellis, an infant, to the barony of Howard de Walden,

A petition of the tanners of Ulverstone and its vicinity, in the county of Lancaster, was presented to the house, and read; taking notice of the bill for indemnifying persons who have incurred penalties for regrating and engrossing Oaken bark; and for repealing so much of an act of the 2d

and the Attorney General on behalf of the | esq. sir C. M. Burrell, bart. lord Archibald crown. After counsel had withdrawn lord Hamilton, Henry Swann, esq. hon. A. C. Arden moved, that the chairman should be Bradshaw, sir William Paxton; Nominees, directed to move the house that the pro- sir John Doyle, bart. Robert Hurst, esq. per officer should attend with the enrollments of patents of peerage granted in the reign of queen Elizabeth. A conversation ensued between lords Hawkesbury, Auckland, Arden, the duke of Norfolk, lords Eldon, Holland, the earl of Suffolk, the lord Chancellor, and lord Redesdale, the result of which was, that lord Arden with-year of king James the first, as prohibits drew his motion. After some further observations from the duke of Norfolk and lord Hawkesbury, the further consideration of the claims was deferred till this day three weeks.--The Controverted Elections Trial bill, the Barrack Commissioners bill, and the Cape of Good Hope Trade regulation Bill, passed through the committees and were reported.-The bill for the Regulation of Courts of Justice in Scotland was, on the motion of lord Walsingham, ordered to be read a second time on Monday, the 9th of March, and the lords to be summoned for that day.-The earl of Rosslyn moved an Address to his majesty, praying for certain papers consisting of returns respecting the effective strength of the military force of the country. Ordered.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, February 17. [MINUTES.] A message from the lords announced their lordships' assent to the Irish Customs Regulation bill.-The house was ordered to be called over on Thursday next. The following members were appointed by ballot, to try and determine the merits of the petition, complaining of an undue election for the borough of Liskeard: sir Charles Pole, sir Charles Mordaunt, E. R. Portman, esq. John Maitland, esq. Michael Sims, esq. Joseph Cripps, esq. John Hudson, esq. John Leveson Gower, esq. hon. Courtenay Boyle, Richard Trevanion, esq. Edward Long, esq. Charles Edmonston, esq. R. H. Bradshaw, esq. Nominees, Thomas Creevey, esq. right hon. Charles Long.-The following members were appointed to try the merits of the petition, complaining of an undue election for Sudbury: lord Brooke, Mich ael Hicks Beach, esq. hon. sir A. Wellesley, hon. Robert Curzon, lord Grenville Leveson Gower, Jas. Graham, esq. hon. W. Augustus Townshend, William Mellish,

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the same; and praying, that the same may
pass into a law. A petition of the tanners
of the district of Armagh; and also, A pe-
tition of the tanners of Gorey and its vicinity,
in the county of Wexford, were also seve
rally presented to the house, and read;
likewise taking notice of the said bill; and
setting forth, that if the object and clauses
of the said act of the 2d year of king James
the first, to prevent the regrating or re-sel-
ling Oak bark, should be carried into exe-
cution, the annihilation of the tanning trade
in Ireland would be the inevitable conse-
quence; and therefore praying, that the
liouse will not permit the provisions of the
said act to be enforced. And the said pe-
titions were severally ordered to be referred
to the consideration of the committee, ap-
pointed to take into consideration the act,
made in the 2d year of king James the
first, intituled, an act concerning tan-
ners, curriers, shoemakers, and other arti-
ficers occupying the cutting of leather."-
Sir Edward Knatchbull reported from the
committee, to whom the bill for extending,
to sums of greater amount than forty shil-
lings, the provisions of three acts, passed in
the 5th, 6th, and 10th years of his present
majesty, for the recovery of sniall debts
within the hundreds of Blackheath, Brom-
ley and Bekenham, Rokesley otherwise
Ruxley, and Little and Littleness, in the
county of Kent, and of Wallington, in the
county of Surrey, and for amending the
said acts, was committed; that the com-
mittee had examined, and found that the
standing orders of the house, relative to
bills for the more easy recovery of small
debts, had been complied with; and that
the committee had examined the allegations
of the bill, and found the same to be true;
the report and amendments were read, and
agreed to-Ordered, that the bill, with
the amendments, be ingrossed.

Sir Charles Mordaunt reported from the Committee, to whom the petition of

several inhabitants of the town of Bir-ing of leather; and therefore praying, that, mingham, and the hamlet of Deritend before any alteration is made in the said thereto adjoining, in the county of War-act, they may be heard, by themselves, wick, was referred; that the committee their agents, or counsel, in support of such had examined the matter of the said parts thereof, as they conceive to be benepetition, and had directed him to report ficial to themselves and the public at large. the same, as it appeared to them, to the-A petition of the master tauners of the house; and he read the report in his place, city of Waterford; and also a petition of and afterwards delivered it in at the table, the tanners of Stradbally, in the queen's where the same was read. Ordered, that county, were likewise severally presented leave be given to bring in a bill to alter, to the house and read; taking notice of amend, and enlarge the powers of an act, the bill for indemnifying persons who have passed in the 25th year of his late majesty, incurred penalties for regrating and engrossfor the more easy and speedy recovery of ing Oaken Bark, and for repealing so much Small Debts within the town of Birming- of an act of the 2d year of king James the ham, and hamlet of Deritend thereto ad- first as prohibits the same; and praying joining, in the county of Warwick; and that the same may pass into a law. And that sir Charles Mordaunt and Mr. Dug-the said petitions were severally ordered dale do prepare, and bring in, the same. to be referred to the consideration of the -Resolved, that when the house shall have committee, appointed to take into consideproceeded upon Thursday next to the ap-ration the said act.-Resolved that an pointment of select committees for the trial of the several petitions which are appointed to be taken into consideration upon that day, and the names of the members shall be drawn and called for that purpose, Mr. Speaker do direct the name of every member so called, who shall be absent from the house, to be set aside; and that a list of the names of such absent members be reported by Mr. Speaker to the house, at such time as the house shall think fit to appoint.-Resolved, that, upon the report of the list of the names of such absent members, the members for whose non-attendance, on the appointment of the said select committees, a sufficient excuse shall not be made, and allowed by the house, shall be forthwith ordered to be taken into the custody of the serjeant at arms attending this house, and shall not be discharged out of custody without the special order of this house.-A petition of the master, wardens, and commonalty, of the art or mystery of the curriers of the city of London; and also, a petition of the master, wardens, and commonalty, of the mys-house, together with the minutes of the tery of cordwainers of the city of London, evidence taken before them; and he read the were severally presented to the house, and report in his place, and afterwards deliverread; taking notice of an act, made in the ed the same, with an appendix thereunto, 2d year of king James the first, intituled, in at the table, where the report was an act concerning tanners, curriers, shoe-read. Ordered, that the said report do makers, and other artificers occupying lie upon the table; and with the appendix, the cutting of leather;' and setting forth, be printed for the members of the house. that the petitioners are interested in many Mr. Hobhouse reported from the comof the provisions contained in the said sta-mittee of the whole house, to whom the bill tute, and the more especially in such parts to provide more effectually for regulating thereof as regulate the well tanning and dry-the Drawbacks and Bounties on the expor

humble address be presented to his majesty, that he will be graciously pleased to give directions, that there be laid before this house, copies of any commissions issued by his majesty, for the Sale of Lands in the British West India Islands, between the years 1765 and 1775, inclusive. Ordered, that the said address be presented to his majesty by such members of this house as are of his majesty's most honourable privy council. Earl Temple reported from the committee appointed to consider of the expediency of permitting the use of Sugar and Molasses in the Distillery and Brewery, for a time to be limitted, under the circumstances now affecting the trade of the British Colonies in the West Indies, and to report the same, with their observations and opinion thereupon, from time to time, to the house; and who were empowered to report the minutes of the evidence taken before them; that the committee had considered the matters to them referred, and had directed him to report the same, as they appeared to them, to the

tation of Sugar from Ireland, and for al- | lowing British plantation sugar to be warehoused in Ireland, was committed; the amendments which the committee had made to the bill, and which they had directed him to report to the house; and he read the report in his place, and afterwards delivered the bill, with the amendments, in at the table, where the report was read. Ordered, that the said report be taken into further consideration upon Friday next. --Mr. Hobhouse reported from the committee of the whole house, to whom the bill to amend several acts for the sale of his majesty's Quit Rents, crown and other rents, and of certain lands forfeited and undisposed of, in Ireland, was committed; the amendments which the committee had made to the bill, and which they had directed him to report to the house; and he read the report in his place, and afterwards delivered the bill, with the amendments, in at the table, where the amendments were read, and agreed to by the house. Ordered, that the bill, with the amendments, be ingrossed, and read the third tinie to-morrow.-The bill for extending to German Yarn the provisions of an act, made in the last session of the last parliament, for permitting Prussian yarn to be imported in foreign ships, on payment of the like duties as if imported in British ships, was read a second time, and committed to a committee of the whole house, for to-morrow.

[PETITIONS AGAINST THE SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL.] A Petition of Joseph Marryat, esq. agent for the island of Trinidad, was presented to the house, and read; setting forth, "That the petitioner observes, with inexpressible concern, that a bill is now depending before the house for the Abolition of the Slave Trade; and that the operation of such a measure, if passed into a law, will inevitably ruin many British subjects, who have embarked their property in the island of Trinidad, confiding in the encouragement held out by his majesty's ministers; and that the whole of the sugar estates in the said island are in a state of infancy, all of them having been cleared and put into cultivation since the year 1784, and many of them since the year 1797, when the island was surrendered to the British arms; and that, in consequence of the encouragement held out to British subjects by his majesty's ministers, purchases were made from the

Spaniards of those estates which had been settled under the cedula of Spain, at the very high prices of from 50l. to 601. sterling per acre, and large sums of money have been expended in erecting works and buildings upon the different plantations, for the manufacturing of sugar and distillation of rum, upon an expectation that the planters would be able, as their capitals increased, to acquire by gradual purchases a sufficient number of negroes to cultivate their estates to advantage; and that none of the estates in the island are as yet sufficiently stocked with negroes; and, if this bill should pass into a law, the lands thus cleared and purchased, and the buildings thus erected, would become of little or no value, from the impossibility of cultivating the one, or making the intended use of the other; and that the government of Spain has lately issued cedulas inviting settlers to the Spanish main, by the offer of liberal grants of land, an open trade with all nations, the free importation of slaves, and exemption from taxes and from duties on imports and exports for ten years, advantages which, from the facility of the communication between the adjacent Continent and Trinidad will, after the abolition of the Slave Trade, be powerful temptations to the inhabitants of that island to emigrate with their negroes to the opposite coast, and thus to depopulate a British settlement to aggrandize those of the enemy; and therefore praying, on the part of his constituents, that the said bill may not pass into a law; and that he may be heard by counsel at the bar of the house, and may be permitted to give evidence in support of the case of his constituents."

A Petition of the planters, merchants, mortgagees, annuitants, and others, interested in the British West India colonies, whose names are thereunto subscribed, was presented to the house, and read; setting forth, "That the petitioners observe, with the deepest concern and alarm, that a Bill for the Abolition of the Slave Trade has passed the house of lords, and is now depending before this house; and that the trade to Africa for labourers has been, for a great number of years, sanctioned, approved, and encouraged by royal charters and proclamations, and by repeated acts of the British legislature, which declare, in the strongest terms, a most anxious desire to regulate, extend, secure, and preserve this trade, pronounced by par

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