that course, though if he were so inclined, he appealed to the House, whether he might not object to such a foundation of a charge against him; but he did not deny the letter, on the contrary, he had taken some paius to procure the original, for which be could appeal to his friends, in order to enable the house to form a judgment of the merits of the case. As the hon. baronet had read that letter, be trusted the house would permit him to read it also. The hon. gent here read the letter, which had been read before by the hon. baronet. The letter was dated Treasury Chambers, Sept. 22, some time previous to the dissolution, and was marked "private." He should not say that many letters on official business might not be sometimes marked in this manner, but certainly the gentlemen opposite, who had so much more experience in the business of office than he had, must know that

official copies in the office. He only recommended the candidates whom he wished to succeed, to the favourable influence of the barrack-master-general, and requested of

occasion. When the charge was brought forward against him personally, he should have thought he was entitled to the same attention as any other individual who might happen to be accused. He could not account, therefore, for the conduct of those who had signed and brought forward the petition against him. He was satisfied with the explanation that had been given by the hon. gent. who presented it. He had been long known to that hon. gent, and was not sensible of having incurred either his displeasure or animosity. As to the other gentlemen who signed the petition, he had been known to many of them, and was equally ignorant of his having, in any one shape, deserved their hostility. One of the hon. members who had signed the petition, whom he did not then see in his place (Mr. Dent), had within a very few days given him, as a pledge of the continuance of his former feeling towards him, a splendid and hos-letters so marked were never preserved by pitable entertainment at his house. If he could trifle either with the subject or with the house, he should say that he l:ad been invited to be fattened and pampered for a public spectacle. However, he might ac-him to recommend them to the other genquit that hon. member of such intention, tlemen in that department. These were because he believed he had signed the peti- the expressions he made use of, and he was tion ignorant and unconscious of what it ready both to claim and to justify them. contained, and he begged him, if in the Now, as to the charge "that William Frehouse, to be persuaded that he felt no re-mantle, esq. one of the secretaries, who sentment against him. This was not the had no property in the county, had employpetition that had been sanctioned by the ed the power of his office to influence the freeholders of the county, but a perfectly election," he could easily dispose of that. new one, that had been framed within a few It was one of the unfortunate consequences days. The hon. member to whom he had of the petition having been brought forward alluded, had only lent his name to what he without any communication being made to conceived a general charge against the go- him on the subject, that such a statement vernment. The rumours that had been as that had found its way into the petition. circulated respecting the unconstitutional If the honourable members who brought interference of the government had been forward the petition, had informed him of kept up with such industry, though not its contents, he could have saved them the founded in fact, and he should add, resting trouble of presenting it at all; he would only upon falsehood, that it was no wonder have saved them the disgrace they must feel if they had made some impression upon the from the indignation of the house, or he public mind. But he was ready to answer would have saved the house the trouble of for the fact, and he should be ashamed ever listening to his justification. The answer to put pen to paper, if he could shrink from that he had to make to that charge was, that a responsibility, for every syllable he had he was a freeholder of the county of Southwritten. It was unnecessary for the hon. ampton, that he had a property in that baronet to have taken so much pains, re- county, and that he had as good a right as specting the letter he had written, of which any of the gentlemen who had thought however, he had obtained but a copy. It proper to sign the petition, to employ all would be for him to state that no charge the means which his property, influence, or could be substantiated against any person, on connections afforded, to promote the electhe bare ground of an unauthenticated copy. tion of those candidates whom he wished to He did not by any means intend to take succeed. He had for many years posses

sed a property in that county; and his near- of his official situation. He begged here to est and dearest connections lived there, who bring back the attention of gentlemen to the were in the habit of consulting him, and letter, and he would then ask whether there who would be influenced by his advice, had was a single expression in it which could be properties in that county equal to any, and construed to convey the command of office. larger than the properties of most of those He had written in precisely the same terms whose names were to the petition. Though that any gentleman not holding an official he had been settled at the Treasury, it situation, would, to the head of a departdid not follow that he was to be denied ment with whom he was acquainted. He that which was the birthright of every had known general Hewitt, and had underEnglishman, the right of giving his support stood that major Davies was a freeholder and influence to the candidate whom he in the county of Southampton, and had preferred. If he were to be deprived of applied to general Hewitt for the purpose that right by his office, he would not hold of obtaining that vote. Whether he had the office for five minutes.-So far he had been rightly informed as to major Davies considered the question on the ground of pri- having a vote, he could not tell, but he had vate feelings. He should next ask the hon. reason to believe that he had not voted baronet, by what law it was that he was de- either for Mr. Herbert. or Mr. Thistleprived of this right, merely because he held thwaite. The hon. baronet had stated, that the situation of secretary to the treasury? the whole barrack department had been put The resolution of the house in 1779, ex-in motion, and that considerable influence tended only to persons who should use the power of their official situations to influence elections, but did not preclude persons holding offices from giving their votes and interest to whatever candidate they pleased. He was not aware of any law to that effect, and he begged the house to look at the situation it would be in, was every member of the government of this country, whatever might be their talents, their wealth, their consequence, or their other claims to be high in the estimation of their countrymen, deprived of all the influence natural to such qualifications, solely because they happened to fill an office in the government. Was that a doctrine that could be supported in that house or tolerated in this country? Having thus stated that he was not restricted by any law from pursuing the course he had followed; that his property gave him the right, and that that right was strengthened by the consideration of the property possessed in the county by his nearest and dearest connections, he had next to state another motive, which had induced him to take an interest in the election for Hampshire. Mr Thistlethwaite, one of the candidates, was his cousin by marriage, and their families were connected by all the ties of affinity and friendship. Under such circumstances, he should have been wanting in the proper feelings of attachment if he had not exerted himself to promote the success of a candidate in whom his nearest and dearest connections had such an interest, provided, that in so doing, he did not employ the power

had been thereby created in the decision of the election. But he challenged the hon. baronet or any of the gentlemen by him, to prove the influence thus charged. If he was well informed, not a single individual connected with the barrack department, had given a vote at the election, and even major Davies had not voted, either for Mr. Herbert, or Mr. Thistlethwaite. The hon. baronet had likewise brought forward several letters which had been written on the subject of the one originally written by him. But he trusted the house would not think him responsible for any letter but that of which he had himself been the author, and which, he trusted he had shewn, could neither implicate him nor the government under which he acted. The hon. baronet had also read a letter of the duke of Chandos which had given rise to the resolution of parliament in the year 1779. It would be recollected that the duke of Chandos had been a peer of parliament, and consequently disqualified by a resolution of that house from interfering with elections. He was a freeholder of the county, and possessed as good a right as any of the petitioners to canvass his tenants or his friends, in favour of the candidates he preferred. So far he trusted the house would feel that he was justified in going. Having said thus much of the charge contained in the petition, he should now begin to state the only two grounds of crimination against ministers, for an exercise of undue influence. The first was, when they abused their patronage either by holding out mena

Sir Henry Mildmay in explanation said, that he had not asserted that the petition had the sanction of a county meeting.

ces or rewards to persons employed in the others to give their individual influence and public departments, with a view to influence support to such candidates as they may pretheir voices at an election. On this head fer. The hon. gent here briefly recapitulathe could only say, that neither a menace of ed his former statements, and declared punishment nor a promise of reward had that the exercise of any unconstitutional inbeen held out by the treasury, at the last fluence was as repugnant to his own feelings election, to any person in any department as it would be hostile to the wishes of those of the state; and if any such proceedings with whom he was connected, and by whom had taken place, they must have passed he had been placed in the situation he then through his hands. There had been no held. If he had been guilty of such conabuse of the patronage of government in duct it would have deprived him of the any department in the kingdom. But the good opinion of those whose approbation allegations of this petition were not expres-he most coveted, and the apprehension of sive of the sense of the county of Southamp-what he most valued was, next to his own ton. The petition had been obtained sur- principles, the best security against such unreptitiously, privately and clandestinely, constitutional conduct. He might have had and was signed only by 112 persons, who an opportunity of recriminating by charges could not be said to express the sense of a ef a much more dangerous tendency than county in which there were 6000 electors; those preferred against him, but he would the petition therefore did not contain the have been ashamed of himself, if he could sense of the county. Was there a fact descend to such a course. As he trusted brought forward to prove its allegations, or he was incapable of acting in the manner was it supported by any charge from any imputed, he should with confidence throw other part of the kingdom? It rested solely himself upon the justice of the house. upon the credit of the 112 gentlemen who had signed it, and who had signed it on a belief that he had not been a freeholder of the county, and had consequently no right Mr. Broderick expressed his surprise at to interfere. The second ground, upon the speech of the hon. secretary of the treawhich charges of undue interference could sury, and had never heard sentiments avowbe made against government, was the proed in parliament so directly in the teeth of fligate use of their power in the abuse of the the resolution of the house. He said that disposal of the public money. As far as he had property in the county, and he behis knowledge went, no such practise had, lieved that the fact was so, but his situation or could have taken place, though he had in the treasury would be more attended to heard that other governments had resorted by barrack-masters and others, over whom to such means of influence. He could with the treasury might be supposed to have the greatest confidence assert, that no mosome influence. The hon, secretary had ney, not a single shilling, had been issued said, that this was not the petition of the from the treasury, directly or indirectly, for county. Certainly not. It had never been the purposes of the late election. He wish-presented as such. But it was not his busied this to be well understood by the house, ness to say how the voters, who wished to and to go forth to the public and to the petition, were to assemble. He (Mr. B.) world, and he would not pledge his credit knew nothing about their mode of proceed was not in the habit of attending clubs, and and character upon the assertion, if he had not the most positive certainty of its truth.bench near bim, might give him any inforing. But the hon. secretary's friends on the There had not been a single shilling issued,mation on that head he might require. As Feither of secret service money, nor of any to the right of government to interfere in other fund, levied upon the public, for such elections, the hon. secretary had said, that no an unworthy purpose. These were the only two points upon which charges could be brought for undue interference against government. He had answered the charges that had been brought against him to the best of his judgment, and he took that opportunity of protesting against the doctrine, that the individuals who may compose an administration, had not the same right as

been used by the government without his threat, no improper influence, could have knowledge; so extensive was his connection with all its members. This circumstance would prevail much more with the barrack-masters than any consideration of the hon. secretary's property in the county. It had been said by a right hon. gent. the other night, that this petition ought to havẹ

been presented sooner. He hoped that upon reflection he would take a longer view of parliamentary duties. When any one had a matter of great and serious moment to the interests of the house and of the country to propose, he ought to have credit for his motives, and to be allowed to bring it forward at the time which, in the exercise of his own discretion, he might think proper.

the able and manly defence of his hon. friend, little remained for him to say on the merits of the charge; but he would ask the hon. baronet (sir H Mildmay) how he could produce papers there that had been disavowed by another hon. baronet, who had first made the statements contained in them. That hon. baronet had confessed that he could not pledge himself as to their accuracy, as he was dull of hearing. He insisted on the right of the individuals composing the government, to interfere in elections like any other individuals, and expressed his hope that the house would join with him in censuring the conduct of those who had presen ted this frivolous and unfounded petition.

to himself, to shew the house why he, for one, could not place confidence in those as sertions. That very hon. gent. the secre tary of the treasury, had openly and plainly told him, that if he again offered himself as a candidate for Poole, he must not expect the

Mr. W. Herbert expressed his satisfaction that the stream of calumny which had been so industriously spread all over the country, which had been swelled by every possible means abroad, and nourished by insinuations even in that house, had been at last brought to the test of public investigation. But, however much he felt satisfied at this, he Mr. Jeffery said, that after the bold asser must say something respecting the conduct tions made by the secretary of the treasury of those who presented this petition. They that no influence had been used by govern ought to have presented it at an earlier period. ment, either in Hampshire or any other But an hon. gent. had said, that they had place, he could not rest satisfied with giving been desirious of presenting it at the open- a silent vote on the question, for fear it might ing of the session, but that they had thought be taken as a sympton that he assented to the proper to delay the matter till a full atten- truth of those assertions. He would theres dance of county members might be expect-fore request the attention of the house till he ed. But what could he say to justify him-gave few reasons, which came within his self, if it should appear to be true that the own knowledge, and which in fact related petition did not exist at the opening of the session, nor had been even in contemplation; but that another petition, different from this, and containing no distinct charge against his hon. friend, was then intended to be presented, but was afterwards abandoned from want of grounds? He did not say this light-influence of government in his favour, which ly; and he took the liberty of adverting to it in order to enable the house to judge whether this petition was presented from party motives, or with a view to the interests of justice. He then adverted to the assertions that had been made respecting the interfe rence of government in the dock-yards, and denied that any improper interference had taken place there. For this he had the authority of the commissioners, and other officers of the dock-yards, who declared that they had exercised no improper influence over the artificers, nor had endeavoured to detach such of them as were connected with the other party from their friends and connections. This affair of the dock-yards was the subject of the other petition, which had been abandoned. But having ascertain-to be given to Michael Angelo Taylor, esq. ed that there were no substantial grounds for this, they had resorted to this unfounded charge against his hon. friend. Threats and calumnies had been used on the other side, however, even by some invested with magisterial authority. Such threats had been used, not only to procure votes, but to force voters to violate their pledges, After

he had formerly experienced, because he had in the last parliament opposed and voted against the government: that they were therefore determined to oppose him. Here some murmors taking place, Mr. Jeffery said, "Nay, hear me out, I have not half done yet." He then proceeded to say, that the secretary of the Treasury went on to inform him, that if he persisted in standing as a candidate, government would endeavour to open the borough, and try the right of the commonalty, which had once before been done without effect. He stated further, that after the first government candidate had tried a canvass, and afterwards declined the contest, it had been publicly notified that the patronage of government was

Places which were before promised to certain persons, were actually given to others, in order to obtain their support of the candidate who opposed him in his native place. These and many other instances of a similar kind, shewed, beyond contradiction, that the undue influence of government had been exerted; and therefore that the secretary to

the treasury should deny there was any such | Southampton, a letter, dated from the offthing, he should have thought impossible.

cial Chamber of the Treasury, the purport of which was, to desire his influence with all those connected with that department, to obtain their votes for the gentlemen who had started on the ministerial interest. In what way, I ask, was such a communication to be received by the officers of that depart

Mr. Biddulph.-Sir, the hon. gent. who spoke last but one, has, in an ardent and energetic manner, called upon the house to express its disapprobation of the principle and allegations of the petition, on which the motion of the hon. gent. near me is founded. Really sir, with the feelings which I entertainment? or what impression must such a reon this subject, and without the least party bias, for, in this house, or out of it, I am attached to no political party, I can by no means subscribe to the hopes and wishes of the hon. gent. nor conceal my opinion that the petition is a proper one, introduced on proper grounds, and for the introduction of which, whatever delay may have been occasioned, the persons who have taken it up, deserve the warmest gratitude of parliament. There have fallen sentiments from the hon. gent. whose name is particularly alluded to in this petition, which I do confess have struck me with no small share of astonishment; indeed, when I heard him this night asserting the positive right of government to interfere, as a government, in the exercise of the elective franchise, I felt not only astonished, but actually dismayed. This, sir, is a principle against which it is the duty of this house to make a stand, and which should not be suffered to escape, without the individual reprobation of every member of this house, together with the expressed and recorded disavowal of the legislature. That hon. gent. has also declared, that no kind of undue influence was exerted, during the late election, by any department or in dividual of his majesty's government; that if such influence had been exerted, from the situation which he held as Secretary of the Treasury, it could not have escaped his notice and observation; in fact, he has told us, that it must have actually gone through him, as the official channel. With this voluntary statement from the hon. gent, upon this plain and perspicuous acknowledgment, I put it to himself and to the house to decide, whether a considerable suspicion does not naturally attach to the interference of a person so connected with his majesty's government, in the elective rights of the people, and whether it did not become a peremptory point of duty with the hon. gent. to exercise the most scrupulous caution and delicacy, in any step, either personal or official, which he might have been induced to take, with reference to the election of members of parliament? It has this night come out, that he, a public character, did write to the head of the Barrack Department of the county of

quest, on the part of a gentleman who held a high official situation in a branch of the government with which the Barrack Department had frequent intercourse, have made on the persons thus addressed? I do seriously contend, that such a communication must be considered as one of those suite of orders they were in the habit of receiv ing from the Treasury. Arguing from my own view of the case, I conceive, that such was the natural impression of that request, and that the officers or persons to whom the application was made, did consider such application directly official. But the house has been told, that not one of the officers employed in that department, did actually vote for either of the candidates, who were supposed to possess the influence of government. Such a circumstance, in no degree changes the view of the case, nor in any manner lessens the charge of undue influence, if that charge be otherwise well-founded. The influence was not to operate on the officers of the Barrack Department alone; but it was to be exercised by those officers over the nu merous persons they may be fairly supposed to be connected with, and under the direct controul of, the Barrack department. For instance, the owners of barns hired out for barracks; the dealers in hay, oats and those various other articles, which that branch of our establishment so particularly demands. With the merits of this petition, I was totally unacquainted, until this night. My opinion I have formed from what has fallen from the hon. gent. who have preceded me in this discussion. From the acknowledgment of the hon. gent. the Secretary of the Treasury, I do feel, that the privileges of this house, and the liberties of the people, have received, by his influence, in the county of Southampton, a constitutional stab, and that it becomes a paramount duty with the representatives of the people, to immediately interfere. With such a conviction, I shall certainly support the motion for referring this petition to a committee of privileges.

Mr. Fremantle, in explanation, said that he meant that the individuals in the govern ment had as good a right to interfere as those of a corporate body. As to the other posi