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esq. hon. T. Brand, F. Milnes, esq. N. Barnes. | examination of those wlio possessed the esq. W. Mills, esq. H. M. Ogle, esq.- best means of correcting any errors they Nominees: lord vis. Marsham. sir Thomas might contain, and to give an opportunity Turton-Mr. Hobhouse brought in the to them to come to parliament on the furGreenwich royal naval asylum bill

, which ther consideration of this great subject, was read a first time.-Mr. Addington mo- with the most correct views, formed upon ved for copies of all the correspondence the most deliberate and exteusive examibetween the governors of the West India nation. He lioped that, from these concolonies and others, since the year 1799, siderations, the house would grant hio its relative to the importation of ghaves, which indulgent construction, to aid him in the were ordered accordingly:-Lord Howick task he bad to perform in calling upon parmoved that the house be called over ou liament to weigh the grounds upon which Tuesday next, which was agreed to.-- Lord he was led to doubt of the solidity of the Temple brought in the Sierra Leone trans- system proposed by the noble lord. He fer bill, which was read a first time. was anxious that the difference between

(New PLAN OF FINANCE.-Lord him and the noble lord should not be taCASTLEREAGH'S FINANCIAL RESOLU- ken to be greater than it was. There were TIONS.) Lord Castlereagh said, that in the nany views and many general principles in whole course of his parliamentary experi- the noble lord's statement, which he was ence, he had never felt more difficulty in not disposed to question: no principle was rising to address the house than he felt on niore clear than the propriety of considerthe present occasion. He had to review ingat what time, consistently with equity tothe new and extended Plan of Finance pro- wards the Stockholder, the produce of the posed by the noble lord opposite (lord sinking fund in a certain proportion, might Hevry Petty), and to compare it in all its be diverted from its original destination, parts, and all its bearings, with the present and applied to the current service. If the system. When he considered with what Sinking Fund were allowed to proceed in deliberation the noble lord niust have pre- its operation to the extinction of the whole pared his plan, and what able assistance he public debt, a new order of things would had to complete it, it was so disagreeable albe created, and the relative value of every thing for an individual like himself to state thing as it stood now would be destroyed. any thing in opposition to it, that nothing He therefore agreed with the noble lord, but an imperious sense of duty could war- that at some time parliament would be rant or induce him to offer hinself to the called upon to consider what ought to be house with that view. But the difference the maximum of the Sinking Fund to be between his opinions and those maintained applied to the extinction of the debt. by the noble lord was so great, that there He was ready. also to allow that the time must be some material errors on one side might come when the principle of raisor the other. Considering the advantages ing the expences of war within the year the noble lord had withi respect to the might become oppressive, and proper to means of viewing the subject, the errors be got rid of. He was therefore prewere probably on his own side: but such pared to say, that a maximum inight be was the conviction in his own mind or the put to the Sinking Fund in time of peace, truth of his own views of the subject, that and that even in time of war it inight be he felt it a paramount duty to give the house proper at some period to limit it, and to an opportunity of comparing his opinions apply the surplus to prevent war taxes, and calculations with those of the noble from being pushed to the extreme. lord. He by no means wished to depreci- difficult to say at what point all the bearate the noble lord's plan on any general ings of this question might be made to grounds. The facts and the reasons upon meet. That was too nice a question for which his opinions were formed he would him to discuss here. But the noble lord state specifically to the house; and as he having built his system upon calculations had felt it impossible to follow the noble involving that principle, it became the dulord opposite in the statement he had made ty of every man to examine the point, and on a former night, in a manner so credit- to state his motive for differing with the able to him, from its clearness, it was his noble lord, or for supporting him. He wish to follow the example of the noble was actuated, not by a wish to differ from lord and to leave his opinions open to the the noble lord, but by a fear, that the su

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perstructure which the noble lord's plan which he had left wholly out of his calcu went to rear, was not built upon any solid lation ; and therefore, on this ground, he foundation. Any one who looked to such was sorry, without entering into the prosan extended sysiem of warfare as the pre- pect of 20 years, that the noble lord bad sent, must be convinced, that it would be calculated for the present circumstances unwise not to prepare ourselves to follow only. There were at the present time very it to an indefinite length. He was not dis- strony motives for caleulating on a different pleased that the noble lord had thought it plan. He thought it too much to calculate, right to go the length of calculation, upon that we could hold out for a war of 20 a probable duration of 20 years. But it years duration on an expenditure of S2 'was too much to incorporate the calcula- millions, without any increase. But he tion of the expences of such a length of was more inclived to close with the noble tiine into arrangements to be adopted at lord's data, and to come to issue upen luis present. It was impossible that parliament principles, leaving the particulars to be discould now provide for occasions so distant, cussed in the committee, where sone friends and events so uncertain, without involving of his, better acquainted with the details of itself in infinite contraclictions and emiar these subjects than he was, would make rassments. He therefore owned, he wishet soine oliservations upon them. He thought the arrangements for t'e present year had he had the means of proving, that the noble been built on an extensive view without lord's pian, if acted upon and carried fully calling upon parliament to adopt arrange- into execution, would be the means of inments of the same extent, which it was im. volving the country in great embarrassmenis, possible it could do with information or if not in compicat ruin, and wbat was still judgment. He admitted that unless data worse, in unnecessary and gratuitous rnin. were assumed, it was impossible to reason, He was sensible of the difficulty of the task or to arrive at any determination. But he baci undertaken. But be trusted that what he feared was, that by the assumption the arguments with which he would endea. of fallacious data, far from being enabled vour to establislı his opinions, would be reto proceed consistently, through a series ceived w.th indulgence and liberality, from of 20 years, we should be led into conti- the consideration that the points to which nual errors.

The noble lord, in looking they referred deserved the fullest attention. to so small an expenditure as 32,000,0001. In examining the system of the noble lord, hoped not only to be able to cover that he hoped he should be permitted to sepaexpen-liture, but to provide for its inci- rate two questions, and that those who dental escesses. But the expenditure of lieard him would keep them disiinet. First,

from 41,000,000l. and in putting it for should now be adopted with respeet to the ward as the probable amount of our war Sinking Fund ? and, secondly, If it was expenditure, the noble lord should take consistent that such measures should now be care not to niislead the country as to the adopted, whether it was consistent that they amount of the burile it would bave to should be adopted with a view to their tabear. He was sure the noble lord must king place 20 years lience ? With respect have derived from the source with which to the appropriation at the present time, lie was so honourably connected, principles he would not question the fact that the which would be very far froni disposing Sinking Fund would afford in 1826, a surhim from rendering his countrymen the plus applicable as the noble lord stated, i Penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos.” He The noble lord must allow, that the sum of was sure the noble lord would be sorry to 1,200,0001. to the charge of which, divest think that we should be prevented from co-ed from the War Taxes, this surplus would operating, even by money, to the exertions be then applicable, was in itself a fund on which might still be made for the deliver- which parliament might raise and might ance of the world from the common enemy. charge loans, and on which any system of fiIf the noble lord had looked to the average nance might be built, either the present actual expence of the last war under this head ; system, or that proposed by the noble lord. if he bad looked to the average expences of The written explanation of the noble lord's the last four years in particular, he would plan stated, that, conformably to the node have found that there was an anuual con- / in which the noble lord wished to raise the tingent charge of 3,700,000l. for expences, loans, the Property Tax of 11,500,000 was as liable to those loans as any other old; 2dly, the relative amount of the public part of the War Taxes, but that was a fal- debt, and the effect of the operations of lacy. In charging War Loans, amounting the old and the new plan upon it; 3dly, the to a capital of 210 million, the noble lord relative qualities of both systems with rehad assumed that the War Taxes were ap- spect to the charges they would create in a plicable to the discharge of it. But parlia- period of 20 years; 4thly, the relative face inent was pledged to the country to repeal lity with which they would admit of mitigathe War Taxes in the event of peace. tions of the present barthens; and 5thly, Thus, the pledge of parliament was to be what relative state they would leave the violated in order to cover with all these tinances in at the conclusion of their opeabsorptions of the War Taxes, a principle rations. By a comparison of the quantity which must involve in ruin any individual of capital to be borrowed, the noble lord or any country that bad recourse to it, bors would feel how he would be best enabled rowing the interest of loans, and constitu- to provide for a war expenditure of ting that interest so borrowed into a perma- 32,000,000). and if it could be shewn that nent fuuded debt. He would ask the no- by any means a loan of 11,000,0001. could ble lord if he had considered the conse- be raised, without materially ad Jing to our quences of borrowing any given sum in tirat present burthens, which loai, in addition to way, and compared them with the conse- 1 21,000,0001. of war taxes, would make quences of borrowing the samne sum under the desired sum of 32,000,000). the adthe usual system. One of the resolutious vantages of such a plan would be obvious, he should have to submit would be found. He would compare the amount of capital ed on the principle of this comparison. If borrowed, at this rate, of eleven millions the abstract principle of the system had a annually, with the amount of capital, at the disadvantage in this respect, the mischievous same time ouder the noble lord's plan. At influence of the principle would extend to the rate of 11,000,0001. annually, only every part of the superstructure he had 210,000,0001. would be borrowed on the raised upon it. It was a grateful and a whole period of 20 years, without any of proud question for the house, if it could go the embarrassing machinery of the noble into the consideration of the propriety of lord's plan. According to the noble lord's releasing the country fronı any part of its plan, there would be raised in the same present barthens. But he wished the noble period by war-loans 210,000,000l.; and iord in that view also to consider bis own in Supplementary Loans, 204,200,0001. system comparatively with that which he making a total of 416,200,000). There uow proposed to substitute. The noble was thus an excess of capital, by the opelord proposed to raise 12 millions by Loan, ration of the new plan, of no less amount on an appropriation of ten per cent. and than 190,200,0001.exclusive of 82,000,0001 1,200,0001. at 6 per cent. He wished to borrowed on the war taxes, and redeemed compare the effect of this with the effect of within the period. Certainly it was not a au operation of the same ainount under the matter of indefinite importance and policy, old system. The ultimate result would wheiher such an immensé sum should be be, under the new system, a charge of raised beyond what would be necessary 60,144,0001. before the period of extinc under accustomed and more simple ará tion, while under the old system, the charge rangements, while the whole of the warwould be only 30,960,0001. Thus there taxes would be absorbed at the end of 14 would be a loss to the public of 29,184,0001. years, and the whole 32 millions would be This manner of comparative consideration to be raised without any aid from them. would prove the difference of the advantages There was little room to doubt that a newith which the war could be carricd on, on the cessity for going into the market for a loan old plan or on the new; and those points of such vast amount would in a few years of comparison which he was about to sub have as great an effect in destroying credit mit were the only points he could discover. and capital as that anticipated by the noble The complicated and extended scale of the lord from the unlimited operations of the poble lord could not be well comprehended Sinking Fund, and the extinction of the without looking at its ultimate results. It whole public debt. Thus the new plan was would, therefore, be necessary to consider, injurions, not only in respect to the great first, the relative amount of the capital bor- accumulation of capital borrowed, but also rowed according to the new system and the in respect to the vast change it was calculated to make in the market. Another point its maximum of 28,155,3581. in the year of comparison was the state of both plans 1820, would have descended to 26,901,3601. at the end of 20 years; and also the com- in the year 1825, and would continue to parative state of the Sinking Fund; for he decline so long as the excesses would be was ready to allow that an increase of dent applied to pay the interest of Supplemight be compensated by an amelioration mentary Loans. Ile wished the noble lord in the Sinking Fund, and therefore the to continue the calculatious of four of his comparison of the debt alone would not own tables, froni years beyond the year suffice. If 11 millions were to be borrowed | 1826. Nothing further would be requisite every year for 20 years, the amount of the to prove to him the fallacy of his plan.Public Debt at that time, according to the The next point of comparison' was, the calculations in the noble lord's tables, charge of borrowing 11,000,0001. - The would be in money value, 270,443,3051. charge for Interest and Sinking Fund for The present amount in money value, was this loan would be, according to the pre363,793,7221. Thus there would be a sent system, 733,3331. The amount of decrease of debt according to the old charges for these Loaus for 20 years, c system, to so considerable an amount as 220,000,0001. would be 14,666,6601. Ace 93,350,4171. According to the new sys- cording to the new Plan, the charge for Suptem of the noble lors, the money value of plementary Loans, amounting in 20 years the debt would be in the present yeario 209,000,0001. would be 14,966,3887. 364,993,7221. The amount in {S26, wonld And the loss by War Taxes mortgaged for be 455,537,9321. This would be an in-14, vears, till liberated, in successive por: crcase of debt in money value of 90,544,2101 tions, according to the series in which they which, added to 93,350, 4171. the dininu- had been appropriated, 21,14001. The tion that might be efected by adhering to charges of the Supplementary Loans, only the old system, would make a total disad- under the new plan, would amount to vantage of 183,594,6071. in amount of debt within 370,27?. of the whole charges uit in money value, together withi 196,000.0001. der the present system; with the additionincrease of capital borrowed from the adop- al loss of the whole of the war taxes morttion of the new plan--He would now pro- gaged away for war loans, for 14 years; ceed to compare the effect of the two plans under these circumstances the house would with respect to the Sinking Fund. Accor- not be at a loss to decide to wlrich of the ding to the old system, the present amount two systeins the preference was due.--The of the Fund was 8,515,0491. In 1826 it next point of comparison was the relative, would be, following still the calculations in means of relieving the country from taxes, the noble lord's tables, 27,115,581/. being and he admitted that if this could be done an increase in 20 years of 18,610,8391. without injury to those who had advanced According to the plan of the noble lord their property for the service of their counthe amount of the Sinking Fund in the try, the people who had so nanfully bome present year would be 8,935,942). In up against the difficulties and dangers of 1826 it would be 26,901,3601. affording the present time, were justly entitled to an increase of 17,966,3181. in 20 years ; that relief, and it was highly desirable to but falling short of the improvement by the legislature to be able to afford it. the old system in 644,4211. According to With reference to this object, he would the new plan there would be but a sinking compare the state of the Sinking Fund acfund of 26,901,3601. on an increased debt cording to the effect of its own inherent of 455,537,9321. while the present system principles under the present system, and acwould, if followed, give a sinking fund of cording to the application of the noble lord's 27,115,8817. on the reduced debt of plan to it. Could the period be fixed, 270,443,3051. The proportion of the sink at which we might look to an applicable ing fund to the debt, under the present success upon the sinking fund above what plan, would be in 1826, above 1-10th; ac- onght to be applied to its special purpose ; cordmg to the noble lord's plan, it would and if that period could be ascertained to be but 1-17th. According to the present be at the end of ten years, the 1!,122,8001. system, the interesi on the Sinking Fund which it was proposed to take from it at would go on accumulating at compound that time, for the charge of supplementary interest till the debt would be extinguished. loans, might as well be appropriated to According to the new Plan), having reached the payment of interest of loans, raised any

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according to the present system, or applied and intanglements into which his own plan to the mitigation of the public burtheus, led him. It would upon more mature in other manner. So might the consideration appear to the noble lord a 683,0921. of annuities likely to fall in in the strange option to have prefered borrowing 20 years.

So miglit the new taxes of upon a double system, rather than to pur292,0001. anuually on an average,

sue the simple one that had been hitherto 9,031,0001. on the whole proposed to be used. It would be satisfactory, he hoped, raised by the noble lord's plan, between to the noble lord to find, the country might the third and the tenth year of his series. be relieved without embarrassing the war These sums altogether making 13,856,8611. taxes, and that the 13,800,001. which he were equally applicable to the present sys- proposed to appropriate to the Suppletem, or to any other, as they were to that mentary Loans to that object. This Supof the noble lord. As applied to the plementary Loan began at so low an acharges of the Supplementary Loans, mount as 200,0001. It seemed to be inaniounting to 14,296,3887. this amount of tended as a sort of small charge for the Ways and Means of 13,836,0001. leit a War Taxes; but when it would laye deficiency of 440,3881. As applied to the reached its 14th year, this little gentleman charges of annual loans of 11,000,0001. would have out grown its parent, and would for 20 years under the present systemu, be- have amounted to 20,000,0001. The ing 14,656,6601. it leit a deficiency of whole amount of the average want at the 809,7991. Deducting from this deficiency end of ten years, would be but 7,733,0001. of 809,7991. the deficiency, under the new There were to meet this Ways and Means plan in the application of the same Ways to the amount of 3,200,0001. Thus there and Means to the Supplementary Loans would be to be provided only a Loan of only, there would remain a ditierence of 4,520,0001. It would be madness, after only 369,4111.; and that was the whole the facility of provision he had shewn, to consideration for which our taxes were go to the Jews to borrow, and to find the mortgaged and alienated. It was an insult interest of the Loans. In 1816, the Sinklo the country, which had so manfully ing Fund would not only be capable of borue up against the difficulties of tlie time, furnishing the aid now looked for from it, and had burthened ilself with war taxes in but also a large sum in addition. Adorder to prevent any accumulation of debt ding, therefore the average annual want of in war time; it was a reproach to it to im- 400,0001. to the loan di the year, and agine for a moment, that, however desirous carrying the interest and Sinking Fund of it may be to be relieved from the rigour of it, amounting to 33,000l. to be advanced its present hardships, it would seek such a out of the Consolidated Fund to be repitiful relief at the expence of so great an placed by the Sinking Fund as soon as it ultimate sacrifice; it was an insult to sup should afford surplus applicable to this pose, that the country would rather suffer purpose, the wbole difficulty would be met. their war taxes to be cosumed by war Thus instead of 204,000,000l. of Suppleloans, rather than prevent that evil, rather mentary loan, only 4,500,0001. would be than charge itself with additional taxes, to added to the gross amount of the perma. the amount of 369,411. which with the nent debt, and only an amount of 33,0001. Ways and Means appropriated by the no- interest and Sinking l'und, to the permanent ble lord's plan to the Supplementary Loans charge. The whole of the complicated merely, would enable the country to sus- machinery of the noble lord's plan, raised tain a War Expenditure of 32 millious. It story after story, and crowned with cumhad never been considered as part of the brous scaffolding, which threatened to fall duty of those who sat on that side of the and crush the country with its ruins, would house, to propose Financial Plans, and thus be dispensed with. There was anthose who ventured to propose such plans Other principle, which might, as it apwandered from their proper line; but peured to him, be applied to the object of when he came forward to dispute the Sys- the noble lord, namely, that when the tem of Finance proposed by the noble lord, amount of the Sinking Furid should exceed he thought he could do no less than point the interest of the unredeemed debt, no out another plan, which would enable the provision should be made by new taxes for noble lord to meet the difficulties of the the interest of the loan, but that it should time without any of the embarrassments be provided for out of the interest of the

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