them; and they would be ready to make every effort in support of the present contest. But they had a right to expect indemnity for the past, and security for the future; they had a right to expect a rerigid economy in the future application of the public money, not, however, that paltry economy that would narrow the scale of public exertion, and paralise the efforts of the country; but such an economy, as without confining the indispensable services of the state, would husband the resources of the nation. For the practice of such economy he looked with confidence to the gentlemen ou the bench below him. He had no hesitation in uttering this sentiment, because it flowed from a pure source; the conviction which arose from the manner in which they had received and treated this motion. He trusted that the plan of reformation, which had been so often talked of, was now at length commenced, and that as ministers had declared their intention not to grant places in reversion, they would put an end to the abuse for the present, and prevent all future ministers from adopting the practise. They appeared to him disposed not only to preach, but to prac tise.

Mr. Fawkes, in a maiden speech, declared, that this was a motion upon which, consist ently with his own principles, or his duty to his constituents, he could not content himself with giving a silent vote. He hoped, however, that in his first attempt to engage the attention of the house, he should meet with that indulgence which was usually extended to a member rising under similar circumstances. Notwithstanding all the efforts that had been made, and all the expences incurred, in endeavours to rescue our neighbours from subjugation, there still remained to this country sufficient means and resources to enable us to cope with all the adversaries with whom we had, and might have, to contend, if only they should be wisely administered and economically applied. He was persuaded that the country possessed ample means to meet every emer gency, and to secure us against every possible danger. But the only means of obtaining this desirable end was, that the government should shew to the people that they were determined to rectify every abuse, and manifest a determination to ameliorate the condition of the people. When he considered the actual state of the country, labouring under a grievous weight of burthens, when he called to mind the declarations made at different times by persons high in office, that the people would be called on to sacrifice, not only the comforts, but even the necessaries of life, for the support of the present contest, he should not think that he performed his duty to those who sent him there, if he did not give his entire and cordial support to the motion then before the house, and every other motion of the same description. The noble lordclared the sincere satisfaction which he felt on the bench below him, had said, that it from the sentiments of the chancellor of was desirable to continue some sinecure the exchequer, and had no doubt that those places, as rewards and retreats for merito- sentiments would be followed up, not in rious public officers. Whenever gallantry the abridgment of public liberty, for that should be displayed, whenever diligence he deprecated as much as any man, but in should be exerted, whenever talents should the reduction of those sinecures which be exercised in the service of the country, were known to have gone in some instances whenever eminent merit should be mani- to such an enormous extent as to have fested in the conduct of its affairs and in-excited the general and just jealousy of the terests, he should not be disposed to quarrel with the grant of adequate and liberal rewards in such cases. But these were times when the public money ought not to be lavished upon persons who had not performed any service to deserve remuneration. The people of this country were fully sensible of the blessings that they enjoyed, and of the dangers that threatened

Mr. Ellison highly applauded the disposition manifested by ministers.-The amendment being moved,

Mr. Biddulph said, that there then was so little of substantial difference between the motion he had the honour to submit and the amendment proposed by the noble lord, that he was not disposed to press his motion. The objects he had in view would be attained by the amendment. He de

public.

Mr. Calvert hoped that at all events the noble lord and his colleagues would do that which was now in their power, namely, to prevent the pledging and mortgaging of those sinecure places, which was a system that had heretofore been practised without restraint.-The amendment was then agreed to, and the committee nominated; to whom

were referred the Reports of the Com-and experience, he, (Mr. H.) should feel it fmittees of Finance, and the Commissioners his duty to assume the courage to meet of Accounts, &e. him, and to oppose at every step a measure (SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL.] A which he believed in his heart to be groundMessage was sent to the house by the ed on a delusive promise of good which house of lords, announcing that their lord-it never would accomplish, and to be pregships had passed a bill, entitled, An Act nant with inevitable, immediate, and extenfor the Abolition of the Slave Trade, and sive mischief. to which they desired the concurrence of the house; the bill being laid upon the table,

Lord Howick agreed with the hon. gent. in the great importance of the present bill. It was indeed important in the highest degree, not merely to the cause of humanity and justice, but it was also highly important to the real interests of the West India merchants themselves. It certainly would never be argued in that house, that the West India

British empire, and that their interests did not deserve the most serious consideration. When the bill should come seriously to be discussed, it would be considered not only on the ground of humanity, but also of sound policy, as it affected the West India Islands, and the general interests of the empire. He, therefore, wished as much as any man, that this important subject should be considered with calmness and due deliberation. The hon. gent. had spoken of pains taken to raise a popular clamour against the Slave Trade: he, however, knew of no such practices. He knew, indeed, that there had been a most laudable and persevering attention on the part of the hon. gent. (Mr. Wilberforce) who originated

Lord Howick rose and moved, that this Bill be read a first time; upon which Mr. George Hibbert, in a maiden speech, said, that he could not suffer a measure of such great and critical importance to pass even over this stage without remark: al-Islands were not an important part of the though in seeking to impress upon the house the duty of giving to it the most calm and solemn deliberation, he should be careful to abstain from any argument concerning the principle or provisions of the bill, for which he knew there would be another and a fitter opportunity. It was a bill that, without question, put to risk our West India commerce, a most important resource of the empire, and of peculiar value at the present moment: nothing that had passed in another house of parliament; nothing in the form of resolutions or opinions of a former parliament; no popular sentiment out of doors, however assiduously and enthusiastically excited, ought to affect their deliberations. To this parliament, to which they were called, the question came unem-the measure, but this attention was never barrassed and unprejudged, and to many of the members of that house its temperate dis cassion must be novel. They were not a commitium, a mere organ of the voice of the multitude, but a deliberate body, limited in their number that they might the better deliberate, bound to inaintain the rights, and to consult the interests and the wishes of the people, but bound to decide as their consciences should dictate for the good of the whole, after full and free disenssion. He trusted, therefore, that gentle men would come to this subject with minds impressed with its importance, and open to its calm and dispassioned investigation. He was aware of the disadvantages he must encounter in contending with the hon. gent. (Mr. Wilberforce); he could not for moment pretend to ascend the heights on which the confidence of that house, due to the hon. gent.'s talents and virtues, bad en trenched him; but if he would descend and fight this battle upon the level plain of fact

employed to mislead any body, but merely to make the subject generally understood. He had never laboured to excite a prejudice or clamour, but merely to convincé the understandings of all dispassionate persons. There certainly ought to be a fair time allowed for the discussion, but when Ire recollected how much time had been already given, and what notice the persons concerned had already had from the proceedings in the other house, he could not consent to postpone the second reading farther than to Tuesday next; the hon. gent. would then have an opportunity of arguing the subject fully.

General Gascoyne thought it could only be from the multiplicity of business in which the noble lord (Howick) was engaged, that it had escaped his notice, that every measure that invention or artificé could devise to create a popular clamour was resorted to on this occasion. The church, the theatre, and the press, had laboured to

Mr. T. W. Plummer thought it neces sary, that a bill of such general interest should not be rapidly carried through its different stages, but that sufficient time should be given for the consideration of the measure. On which account, he concluded, that the proper time to debate the question would be on the second reading of the bill, which he hoped would be fixed for a day sufficiently distant to admit of members being furnished with every information on this important subject.

create a prejudice against the Slave Trade. | he did not mean to express himself so gene It had even been maintained from the rally as what the hon. gent. had supposed pulpit, that "England could never expect he had done. He rather meant to say, that to be victorious in war, while she persisted there was scarcely a city or borough, that in such an abominable traffic." Now this had not imposed restrictions upon the repredoctrine, which certainly ought never to sentatives returned. have come from such a place, had been completely falisfied, for England never was more victorious by land and by sea than in the present reign, and in the present war; and some of those victories had been obtained by men who, in another place boldly professed their opinion to be against this bill. The attempts to make a popular clamour against this trade were never so conspicious as during the late Election, when the public newspapers teemed with abuse of this trade, and when promises were required from the different candidates that they would oppose its continuance. There never had been any question agitated since that of parliamentary reform, in which so much industry had been exerted to raise a popular prejudice and clamour, and to make the trade an object of universal detestation. In every manufacturing town and borough in the kingdom, all those arts had been tried. It was not his in- Mr. G. Hibbert was of opinion this petention to speak at present upon the gene-riod would not be sufficient to admit a meetral subject, as he would consider it disrespectful to the lords, if any bill which came down from their house should not at least be read a first time; but as it was a subject respecting which former parliaments had expressed great doubts, and as the bill went to abrogate all the colonial laws of the country, he intreated that the house would give the measure the fullest and most serious consideration.

Mr. W. Plumer begged leave to set right the hon. gent. who had last spoken; and to inform him, that no one man, in the whole county he represented, ever asked him to pledge himself upon the subject of this bill. He could assure him, that if any man had asked him to pledge himself upon that, or any subject, he would have refused to accept of his vote. He should, therefore, vote quite free and uncontrouled for the abolition of the trade. He did not know what the hon. gent. might have met with in boroughs; but as to cabinet measures, and cabinet ministers, he cared not for any measures which were so denominated. The time was, when a member would have been called to order for having hinted at such things as cabinet measures. General Gascoyne, in explanation, said,

Lord Howick was almost persuaded, that from the number of years which had elapsed since the first discussion of this bill, and from the frequent debates which had since taken place on this subject, ås well as the decision of the last parliament, there would be no necessity to postpone its consideration to a more remote period than Tuesday next.

ing of those merchants, who were, above all others, concerned in the present measure; and therefore requested the noble lord would put off the second reading until this day fortnight.

Lord H. Petty hoped the humane movers of this salutary and merciful measure, would persevere in bringing it, as soon as convenient, again before the house. It had already been submitted, for above a month or six weeks, to the public, during its discussion in the upper house, from which it had come with every recommendation. As that house undoubtedly contained many of the most enlightened and virtuous statesmen, this was a consideration, which he hoped would have its due weight with gentlemen. He concluded with expressing a wish, that the second reading of the bill should not meet with any unnecessary delay.

Captain Herbert thought with the hon. gent. near him (Mr. Hibbert) that time should be given to consider the consequences arising from the passing of the bill just now read. This bill, he was of opinion, would not effect the abolition of the Slave Trade, but rather would become the ruin of the British Colonies in the West Indies,

and consequently of our finances in that part of the world. As to the argument resorted to by the noble lord who proposed the motion, he conceived it to be very defective, inasmuch as he was not, nor could he devise how he should be, bound to conform to the decision of the last parlia

ment.

Mr. H. Addington thought it necessary to defer the second reading to a more remote day. In which opinion he was supported by Mr. Lethbridge.

Mr. I. H. Browne said, that, though the uniform enemy of the Slave Trade, and that from a conviction of its injustice, juhumanity, as well as impolicy, yet, when

an innovation was about to be made on the

private properties of a considerable portion of this commercial country, he could not think the suggested delay of a fortnight unreasonable. He should, if the house divided on this point, certainly vote for the postponement, and therefore could not be content without expressing himself as he had done, lest he might be supposed an enemy to the abolition of this detestable traffic.

Lord Temple objected to the day intended for the second reading of the bill, and was at a loss to conjecture the reason of his noble friend's wishing thus to hurry the bill through its stages. He conceived it would be prudent, in a case of this importance, to furnish the house with a printed account of the evidence in the other house. It should be remembered, that this bill was intro duced with the blanks filled up, and in this respect, not similar to other bills, on their first reading, which originate in this house. From these circumstances, he was induced to hope the noble lord would concur with him in deferring the second reading for another week.

Mr. Tierney thought there was abundance of time for a meeting of the West India Planters; and the same counsel, if it should be thought expedient to hear counsel on the subject, might be employed in this, as in the other house.

Mr. Babington thought a meeting of the West India Merchants could easily be called within the time appointed by the noble lord.

Mr. Hibbert then moved, as an amendment, that the second reading be fixed for this day fortnight.

Lord Howick wishing above all things, that no pretence should be given for cavil

ling, to the enemies of the bill, he would, if the hon. gent. withdrew his amendment, fix the second reading for Friday week; which being assented to, the motion for the second reading on Friday se'nnight, was put and carried.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday February 11.

[FINANCE COMMITTEE.] Mr. Biddulph moved that the name of Mr. Ellison be added to the list of persons appointed yesterday as a select committee for the purpose of examining into the salaries and emoluments annexed to public offices.

Mr. Bathurst declared that he could not avoid resisting a motion of this nature. The committee at present consisted of 22 instead of 21, the more usual number of members; and, if the practice of adding names to a select committee were to be encouraged by the house acceding to the proposal of adding any name, however respectable, to a committee already so numerous, as this was, instead of select they would have almost general committees, when they were voted to be select ones, as every other member would have an equal right to propose the addition of whatever person he might think particularly qualified to serve on the committee then spoken of. If one was to be proposed in the stead of another, however disagreeable it might be to their feelings, gentlemen must see that that would be a fair ground of discussion.

Mr. Calvert supported the motion on the ground of the probability that some of the members might be absent from their duty at the committee; and adverted to "an instance where he had seen only one honourable member, (Mr. Bathurst) acting in a committee-room.

Mr. Bathurst explained to the house that he was at that time engaged in making abstracts from the statements which were in the voluminous documents bofore the committee. It would be perfectly useless for 14 or 15 persons to attempt to perform such a task. In this he could only suppose that he acted as an assitant to the clerk, and not that he personated the committee.

Lord H. Petty reminded the heuse that the committee of finance, whose labours were esteemed to be particularly advantageous to the public, and with whom the house was most particularly well satisfied,

consisted of only 15 members, and yet, now that the plan was completely designed before them, when the labour must necessarily have been considerably decreased, the house was to be told that 22 persons were not equal to the task. The names had not been chosen by ballot; they were each announced singly in an open manner to the house, and were thus the polled representatives of the whole body of the house. He appealed to the house itself, whether there was any possibility of there being a committee more impartially chosen; they were a selection of the men most eminent for their talent and independence within those walls, and might be said to have been culled from every class of men, except that class which most assuredly the hon. gent. could not think the best qualified for acting on a committee, such as that of which they were then speaking; the class of placemen he meant. He had not, for his own part, the smallest objection to the gentleman alluded to being one of the committee; but then his name should have been mentioned before a committee of 22 persons were actually chosen by the house.

case as the present; bnt even on the score of precedent, he understood that it was contrary to the established usage of the house to add any names after the complete appointment of a finance committce.-The gallery was then cleared for a division, but the motion was withdrawn.

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HOUSE OF LORDS.

Thursday February 12.

[LORD DUNSTANVILLE'S INDEMNITY BILL.] The Lord Chancellor left the woolsack, to observe, that a noble lord (De Dunstanville), having inadvertently assisted at part of the debate on the Slave Trade bill, without having previously qualified himself by taking the usual oaths and his seat,the noble lord had thereby incurred certain pains and penalties prescribed by an act of Charles II. Their lordships would naturally observe that the members of that house, being hereditary members of the legislature, might readily be supposed to overlook or forget the ceremonies of taking the oaths every new parliament. Such was the inadvertency the noble lord had lapsed into, the same as had been incurred by a noble marquis (Lawnsdowne) some years ago. In that case his majesty's will and pleasure was consulted, and instructions given to bring in a bill to indemnify that noble lord, as quickly as the bill could be gone through. What he had to perform on the present occasion would be squared upon that precedent; and he now held a bill in his hand similar to that proposed in the case of the noble marquis, which he trusted the house would allow to pass through its different stages as rapidly as possible. He should now propose that it be read a first time.

Mr. Johnstone declared, that the noble Lord had not satisfied his mind upon this head. The former committee, he agreed with the noble lord in saying, had discharged their duty in a manner highly creditable to themselves, and beneficial to the service of the public. He had no doubt also that the present committee were as eminently qualified as the noble lord bad described, to perform the task assigned to them with honour and ability. But still he thought it was rather hard that, after his hon. friend had suggested the propriety of adopting a measure, though he unquestionably was not so capable of supporting it as the noble lord was, and though the noble lord entire- Lord Walsingham hinted that the standJy concurred with him, and supported himing orders of the house did not allow the in the main object of his motion, with only bill to go through more than one stage in some little variation of terms; he still thought a day--After a few words from the lord it was rather hard that his hon. friend should chancellor, the bill was read a first time. not be allowed to name one person for the committee. There had been instances of names being added to select committees on many former occasions.

pre

Mr. Freemantle also bore testimony to the respectability of the names on the sent list; in fact he could not see that it was possible to select 22 more independent, more capable, or more honourable men. As to precedent, he did not think that it was necessary to be resorted to in such a

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday February 12. [MINUTES.] The following members were appointed a committee to try the merits of the petition complaining of an undue election for the borough of Chippenham: N. Calvert. esq. W. Fitzhugh, esq. William Fawkes, esq. hon. A. Cooper, lord Mahon, A. Eyre, esq. W. Odell, esq. J. H. Street,