Imágenes de página
PDF
ePub

of offices executed by deputy, why are they continued if they are unnecessary; and if they are necessary, why should they not be executed at the charge which is found suf ficient for the deputy? Why is the state to be burthened with immense salaries to unemployed principals, who do nothing but bear the name of the office? In the 26,0001. I alluded to, no service whatever is done. In the thirty reports of the Committee of Finance, there are several other instances of of fices of the same kind, but I do not think it necessary to trouble the house with detailing any more than the principal branches, in which the propriety of reform is obvious. My motion will embrace every branch of the Public Expenditure. The powers I propose to give to the committee are the same as those granted to the committee of 1797. The Pension List was not referred to the committee of that time, neither would I have it expressly referred to the committee now proposed; but ny motion will be framed in such a manner that the commnittee will be enabled to attend to that branch of Expenditure, as well as to every other. I shall conclude with moving That a committee be appointed to consider of what saving can be made by the reduc

[ocr errors]

therefore becomes necessary to inquire what these regulations and that practice were. By the act of 4th William and Mary, the barous of the Exchequer were directed to inquire what were the antient and legal fees. Those fees were reported and vested by law in the officers. But notwithstanding the title by usage, and the investment by law, an alteration was made in 1702. In that year great exertions being required, the sum which was raised for the public service, 1,600,000l. was considered so great as to render it proper to look to some reduction upon the Exchequer fees, and in consideration of the largeness of the sum a reduction was made. In 1744, on the same principle, the supplies being larger than at any former period, 6,600,000l. being raised for the general service of the year, besides 2,200,000l. for the army, it was agreed by the officers of the Exchequer to reduce the fees one-third. The law and the practice of the Exchequer ought to be no more a bar to the reduction of the fees now, than they were then; and certainly the vast increase in the amount of the public expences, and every other reason, make much more strongly in favour of the reduction at this monent. My motion will embrace all offices and all places, and alltion of useless Places, Sinecure Offices, incomes deprived from the state. There is one department in particular to which the inquiry I recommend will apply with particular effect. I mean that of the Courts of Justice. In the Report of the Committee of Finance, sinecure offices to the amount of 26,5007. in thar department, are pointed out as admitting of total reduction. The committee, in pointing out the propriety of this reduction, and the proper mode of carrying it into effect, quote the opinion of lord Hale, saying, that timely amend ment did much good, and prevented much evil, particularly in things connected with the general weal; but that the reform ought not to be made abruptly, nor all at once; but gradually, with as much attention as possible to the rights of individuals. I do not find that any thing has been done upon this Report, or that any part of its recommendations has been carried into execution. Ten years have elapsed, since the Committee in its 27th report, pointed out as worthy of consideration, whether these offices should be abolished as they became vacant, and yet nothing has been done in compliance with that recommendation. Lord Hale says VOL. VIII.

[ocr errors]

Exorbitant Fees, and every other retrenchment that can be made in the expenditure of the public money.'

Lord Folkestone said, that he had the honour to second the motion.

Lord Henry Petty rose and observed, that it gave him the highest satisfaction, that whatever difference of opinion might exist between himself and the hon. gent. as to the words of the motion, yet between him and the hon. gent and not only that, but between the hon. gent. and all his majesty's ministers, there was a perfect coincidence of sentiment upon the grounds of the present motion. For if there was any thing upon which it might be expected that all should concur, it was this, that the strictest economy should be preserved in the management of the public money, and that all places, offices, and pensions, should be reduced to the smallest charge, consistent with the proper administration of the affairs of the nation. Therefore any mea sure which had that object in view came recommended by a strong similarity and union of sentiment amongst his majesty's ministers, as well as amongst others." But if he had the satisfaction to concur with 2 Z

the hon. gent., if so far an union of senti- vants by means of large pensions, than by ment prevailed, he hoped that there would sinecure places. But when these places also be an union of sentiment upon another were conisdered as connected with the hisposition, essential to the welfare and stabi- tory of the country, and with the different lity of government, which was this, that in branches of the Constitution from their first every country there ought to be rewards origin, it was unquestionably desirable to prefor services performed; that it was not fit serve and continue them. He was therefore ting that means should be wanting of not disposed to count much upon any regranting adequate remuneration for gene- duction that could now be made in Sinecure ral services, and that such rewards ought Places and Pensions, if it was determined to form part of the establishment of all not to reduce them below what the public well-regulated governments. The only dignity and public service required them to point, then, to be considered was, how far be kept up to. Perhaps the manner in these rewards existed in the manner they which the prerogative of the crown was exought, for though places ought to exist for ercised in bestowing such offices, might not the purpose above-mentioned, yet it was be in every instance satisfactory. But the im right that they should be limited, and they proper use of the prerogative in these inconfined to their proper object, and that stances, was no reason why the power of they should not be allowed to run to excess, using it better should be altogether done either through abuse or neglect. That away. If there were improprieties in the such excess did formely exist, especially conduct of the judges, that was no reason with regard to sinecure places, a point to why the administration of justice should be which the hon. gent. had particularly adver- stopped. If there were improprieties in ted, he was perfectly aware. But he beg- the conduct of those at the head of the ged leave to remind the house, that during military department, that was no reason a course of 20 years it had been a constant why the country should be left without an object to reduce and confine such places army. In the degree then in which such within their proper limits. Such was the places were necessary to reward public serobject of the commission of accounts esta-vices, these places ought to be maintainblished at the close of the American war, ed. Why then, what had been the result when there was so great and so just a pub- of all the inquires on this subject? He lic clamour on this subject, a commission might state generally, first, that all sinecure which had in the most able manner dis-places in the customs had been abolishcharged the duties entrusted to it. In the ed. Such also had been the case with readministration which succeeded, and con- gard to the excise.. With regard to the eluded the peace of 1783, an administra- great offices of state, some had been abofion of which a near and dear connexion lished, and a certain chamberlainship in of his (his father, then lord Shelburne) the exchequer, and all the offices, with formed a part, this object was not lost sight the exception of a very few, had been of, and the plan was laid for an inquiry, regulated by commutations being agreed which was carried into effect some time af-upon, instead of fees, which were liable to ter. It was not lost sight of during the a perpetual increase with the increase of administration of Mr. Pitt, a committee the public expenditure. The profits of having been appointed in 1786, and then the tellers and the auditors were thus limanother in 1796, over which the right hon.ited. For the purpose of being perfectly gent. who now filled the chair (Mr.Abbot) had correct in what he had stated with regard to presided with so much credit to himself and the abolition of sinecure offices in the cusso much advantage to the country. Thus it toms, he ought to have observed, that one had been the constant study, for a length of place of this nature, that of collector outtime, to reduce the public expenditure with wards, belonging by patent to a certain respect to offices, as far as it could be done noble duke (Manchester) had been reserved. consistently with the reservation of certain The fact was then,, that sinecure places places of reward for the public servants. If to a certain number were necessary to be the country had been in the situation of retained in order to reward those who one laying down, for the first time, the had given their time, and industry, and their commencement of a system of expenditure, talents to the public service, in offices it might perhaps be more wise to confer re- which did not afford an adequate remune wards on the higher classes of public ser-ation, and to afford them a proper suppor

been done with respect to England. But as to Ireland, he admitted that much as yet remained to be done. But it would be recollected that a committee had been ap pointed 3 years ago, on the motion of the right hon. gent, who then held the office of chance or of the exchequer for Ireland, the object of which was to inquire into the mode of collecting the revenue in Ireland; and although he (Lord H. Petty) was then on the opposition side of the House, yet he took an opportunity of expressing his perfect approbation of that measure, and of promising all the support which he could give. That commission was now ae

on the table of the house; and the house must have seen with satisfaction that his right hon. friend (sir John Newport) had brought in a bill to abolish no less than 38 offices, in pursuance of the suggestions in these reports. Every one who knew his right hon. friend, or the noble lord at the head of the finance department of that country, or the noble duke who was at the

in their retirement. But he could not quit this part of the subject, without alluding to the principles which had been admitted during the progress of Mr. Burke's bill. The principles then admitted were, that those who held offices by grant from the crown, had as strong a title to them, as any proprietor of land had to his landed estate, and that to destroy the one title would be as great an invasion of property as to destroy the other. The reform could apply only with respect to the future holders, and in that view it had been applied in every practicable instance. But where offices were granted in reversion it could not be applied. The reform must remain suspend-tually sitting in Dublin, and its reports were ed till the reversion should have expired. There were two principal oflices granted in reversion. One was that of Register of the Admiralty Court, granted to lord Arden, with the reversion to a member of that house (Mr. Perceval). The other was that of the clerk of the parliament, held by a right hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) over the way, the reversion to his son. But when these reversions expired, he hoped that mea-head of the government there, would feel sures would be taken to regulate these of satisfied that all useful suggestions would fices also. So much with regard to offices be taken up by them, and immediately in England, where a good deal had been acted upon. Why, then, great progress done, except in the law offices, which form- had been made here also. The only point ed the subject of the 27th report of the com- of difficulty was the practice of granting missioners of accounts. It was true that offices in reversion, which he highly disapthere were a great number of law offices proved of, especially in the case of offices which had been stated by them to be un-where the fees were liable to increase with necessary, and which might be subject to the increase of the expenditure, as this was ameliorations; though they had stated, at in some measure entailing abuses. He knew the same time, that these being perquisites it would be said that ministers were unof the great.law officers, the lord chancel-friendly to offices in reversion, and would lor and the lord chief justice, they ought not to be deprived of the patronage and the means of providing for their families which they afforded, without a material increase of their salaries. It was true that the salaries of the judges had since that time been augmented, but he did not know whether the salaries of the lord chancellor and lord chief justice had been raised, so as to compensate for a loss of this sort, and yet it was obvious that the augmentation of their salaries ought to have been particularly attended to, in case of their being deprived of these places and this patronage. However, this was a case, which had certainly been less attended to than others, and therefore, with respect to this the hon. gent's motion came recommend ed by all the authority that could be derived from this report. A great deal then had

wish to abolish them because they could not get them for themselves. To those who were of this opinion he would say, that they might discover a more obvious method by which ministers might secure such advantages, if they were so disposed, and that was by making other offices reversionary, But he had the satisfaction to state, that since the present ministry had come into power no offices had been granted in reversion. They had abstained from this praetice, having in contemplation the means by which reforms might be accomplished here also, and an end put to the iniquitous effects that resulted from such a mode of proceed ing. Things, then, being in this state, there remained little to be done except with respect to the courts of law the offices of which formed the subject of the 27th report. He was not aware that any sinecure

of this description had been created sincement to promote that important object by that report had been made. But that other every means in their power. The noble more loose abuses had not taken place he lord concluded by proposing an alteration was not prepared to deny, knowing as he in the motion, so that, as amended, it stood did the tendency to abuse which existed thrus, That a select committee be appointwhere the expenditure was so large as it ed to examine and consider what regula was in this country. All, therefore, that tions and checks have been established, in the government could do was, to use every order to controul the several branches of effort to prevent the growth of such abuses; the public expenditure in Great Britain and and to check them where they existed. It Ireland, and how far the same have been had accordingly given an instruction to the effectual; and what further measures can auditors of accounts to observe such abuses, be adopted for reducing any part of the and to report upon them from time to time said expenditure, or diminishing the amount to the treasury. He would read the words of salaries and emoluments without detri of the warrant in which this instruction was ment to the public service; and that they conveyed. Here the noble lord read the do report the same, with their observations words, which contained an instruction to the thereupon to the house.' auditors to attend to and report specially Mr. Wilberforce thought the liberality upon ali abuses and frauds committed at and candour manifested by his noble friend home or abroad. This was part of a war-who had just sat down, particularly entitled rant under whieh the auditors acted, and him to the thanks of the country. But at by this means he hoped that a strong and the same time he must say, that his noble permanent check upon abuses would be friend's opinion as to the necessity of subestablished. Why, then, it appeared that stituting pensions for the established sinegreat progress had been made in destroy- cures, struck him with surprise. If the contjug offices, and that there was a disposition mittee so properly moved for, should be apin the government to prevent the unneces-pointed with the impression which such an sary renewal of them. But though little opinion, from so high an authority, was remained to be done, yet he did not con-calculated to produce, he confessed that tend that that little ought to remain undone. He had no objection, therefore, to the appointment of a committee which should finish a business in which so great a progress had already been made. He was of opinion, that with a slight alteration in the words, the motion deserved the assent of the house, and that a committee should be appointed to inquire into what had been done, and what remained further to be done towards the accomplishment of this great object. Whatever might be the merits of former commissioners, it would be recollected that they were fallible, and that in the best institutions there would be some failure. He expected from this examina-wished rather that the sinecures night retion, that a foundation would be laid for finally eradicating great abuses in the management of the public money, and that the most material benefit would accrue with regard to the system of public economy. Therefore he not only agreed in the principle of this mation, but also approved of the policy of appointing such committees, at different successive periods, to examine into the real state of the public expenditure. He trusted he had satisfied the house that all due attention had been paid to economy, aud there was a disposition in the govern

his good wishes towards that appointment would be considerably abated. No prin ciple would be more injurious in its operation, according to his judgment, than that of voting to each public officer a certain remuneration for his services, instead of leaving these sinecures to be applied to such purposes, for which only they could be allowed to exist. He disapproved of the system of voting pensions, because he very much feared that under that system the amount of reward would depend too much on ministerial influence or popular clamour, or might be too much calculated to induce the one or irritate the other.

He

main for those to dispose of, who were best qualified to appreciate the merils to which they ought to be granted, and there was more likelihood that they would be groperly granted. That talents dovoted to the service of the state were by any means so well rewarded as the same talents would be in any of the liberal professions, either of the church, medicine, or the bar, he was fully prepared to deny. He meant of course pecuniary reward; but that was not the object of public men, for their great and generous minds must look to views of

ready to receive a proposition of economy from any quarter of the house, which must encourage every man to suggest to them the means which might serve to carry their acknowledged principles into effect. With, however, this concurrent wish of all to pursue economy with every practicable industry, he deprecated the application of it to the purpose of producing any reduction of the salaries allowed to our public officers, who so far from being over-paid, were many of them he was prepared to say, with regard to money, very much under-paid. Considering their situation, connections, names, and talents, the remuneration was, he had almost said, quite too little. In rewarding such men, parliament should ever bear in mind fidelity towards the people, and libe

ing to the same point, must urge them to provide that the character of the one should not be degraded, by allowing the comfort and interest of the other to be neglected.

a higher nature, and be actuated by motives | shewed the alacrity with which they were of a noble character. Indeed, it was for the credit of the country to mention that there were many who had giving up the most lucrative professions, to follow the course to which these lofty motives were calculated to lead; therefore such men were entitled to the liberal consideration of parliament and the country, when there should be no longer occasion for their services, and when they should happen, from their circumstances to require such liberality. Men who had long occupied, and ably acted in, the high offices of the state, should not be allowed to fall from the connectious and rank to which they had been accustomed, in consequence of the illiberality of those whom they had served. Such a thing would be degrading to the character of the country, and he trusted it would never be allow-rality towards the officers, both which tended to occur. Of the principle avowed in his noble friend's speech he most sincerely approved; he the more rejoiced to hear the principle stated, because from the knowledge he had of his noble friend's disposi- Lord H. Petty rose to explain a point tion, he was perfectly confident that it would upon which he had been evidently, without be acted upon. He was fully persuaded any intention, misinterpreted by his hon. that his noble friend, was as well disposed friend. In his observations with respect to rigidly to apply the principle of economy the comparative propriety of pensions and as any minister could be. At the same that sinecures, he was in fact but endeavouring he mentioned this, he could not omit stat- to answer an argument; which appeared to ing, that which might be unknown, that his him likely to arise in the disscusion. But noble friend's predecessor (Mr. Pitt) carried he expressed no opinion. His argument the principle of economy as far as was was merely speculative upon the question, practicable, never over-looking any oppor- whether if we were about to constitute a tunity of retrenchment, or of the abolition new system, it would not be better to inof useless places. Indeed he knew that his vest, not that house, as his hon. friend seemlate right hon. friend had, without evered to think, but the crown, with the power mentioning a word about it in that house, abolished between 30 and 40 places in the customs and excise, to which his noble friend had alluded in the course of his speech, although his right hon. friend was at the time pressed by many of his friends and connections, to grant those places to others. But no, his late right hon. friend preferred the principle of economy to the gratification of his friends, and the merit of that great man was, that he did such meritorious things without having it ever known to the world Like the man of Ross, he " did good by stealth, and blushed to find it fame." The hon. member conceived that motions like that before the house should not be at all considered as acts of opposition to mi- Mr. Wilberforce professed his unwillingnisters. From the conduct of his nobleness to mis-state any sentiment of his noble friend this evening, it was evident that mi- friend's, and that he was quite satisfied with nisters themselves did not so consider them. his explanation. On the contrary, their candour clearly

of granting pensions as rewards to meritorious public officers, than to create nominal offices for the purpose of such rewards. But those offices being already in existence, rendered the case different, and their continuance was connected with the honour of the crown, and with the interests and good faith of the country. It was however, the duty of that house to take care that such a system was not carried to any unjustifiable excess, by the appointment, from time to time, of such committees as that which was now moved for. The noble lord concluded with moving an amendment to his motion, that Ireland should be included in the inquiry.

« AnteriorContinuar »