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Society of 10,000l. which was not to be incorporated into the funds usually granted to that institution, but to be left at the disposal of that society, to enable them to afford encouragement and support to similar institutions in the interior of the coun try, and particularly a society that had been established at Cork for the same objects. It was then ordered that Estimates of the Expences of the several Charitable Institutions in Ireland, should be laid before the house, after which the hon. baronet presented the several Estimates, which were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed-Ordered, on the motion of Mr. Johnstone, that there be laid before the house an account of the Income and Charges of the Consolidated Fund for the years ending the 5th of Jan. 1806, and 5th Jan. 1807, distinguishing each quar

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standings. The rules that circumscribed the authority of the Speaker in that house, and precluded him from a double voice, and a casting voice only in the case of a parity of voles, were, he thought, in direct analogy, though he admitted the difference of that house being a legislative, and the other merely a judicial tribunal. It was to be remembered, however, that it was the only court in the empire in which the presiding member had a double voice, He left it to the house to form its own judgment on the circumstances of the case, and decide upon the propriety of the bill he now moved for. He then moved, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to alter and amend the Act of the 10th of the king for the better Regulating the Trials upon Controverted Elections.

Mr. Bankes said, that the cause of complaint was of such a kind, and the mode GRENVILLE ELECTION ACT.] Mr. which the learned gent. meant to propose for Simeon, pursuant to notice, rose to move its redress, was such, that he thought the law for leave to bring in a bill to amcad cer- was preferable as it now stood; he should tain parts of the said act. He was wil therefore oppose the motion upon the preling to yield every tribute of just praise sent occasion, as he thought it was needto the act in question, which went in some less to encourage a bill to be brought in, incasure to immortalize its author; great, which was so likely to be thrown out in however, as were unquestionably its merits, some future stage. The case stated, was it was yet, like all other things human, not one which very seldom occurred. The act perfect. The object of the proposed bill had put it into the most convenient of all would be, to remove perhaps its only im- forms, because the decision was left to be perfection. In a late case (he Maldon determined by the casting or double vote petition) the chairman of the committee of the chairman; who was naturally lookhad not only a casting voice, but a double ed up to on account of his abilities, integrione. In mentioning this, it was far from ty, and other qualifications which distinhis wish or intention to insinuate the slight-guished him. The learned gent. seemed est reflection upon the gentlemen who to imply, that this very man who was so composed that tribunal, but what occasioned held up to notice, on account of the necesa double vote in that committee, might pro- | sary qualifications, should be the only one duce the same effect in any other. The who should be deprived of the ability unavoidable absence of one of the 15 to give a double vote, should it happen to members might produce a parity of voting, be necessary. He saw no remedy in thus and thus involve the committee in this di- taking away the vote of the chairman, lemma; they must decide upon the issue The general maxim of law was, that there before them, or they must not; if they did should be an end put to a dispute by not decide, justice slept; if they did, one of the judicature to which it was originally the 14 had a double vote. Besides, as submitted, and therefore it was better to the chairman of such committees was gene- take the decision of the committee as at rally a man whom the rest of the commit- present constituted, than that it should be tee had preferred for some superiority in suspended altogether. The chairman was certain qualifications, for talents, good bound to perform the same duties, and to sense, address, arising from habits of busi- take the same oath, as other members of ness, &c. there might be found in some the committee were; and why should not committees men of that diffident cast of the decision depend upon his vote, as well mind that would induce them to look ra- as upon others, the more especially as he ther to the decision of that chairman, than was the one who paid the most particular consult the suggestions of their own under-attention to the subject?

Mr. Simeon explained. He never meant a mere nonentity. Supposing that a comthat justice should be asleep by the deci-mittee were to be reduced to 14, by the sion being suspended. He meant only, that indisposition of any one of their number, in no case should the chairman vote, ex- would his learned friend propose to have the cept in cases of equality, where 7 of the matter decided, by giving a casting or other members had voted on each side; double vote to one of those 7, with whom and that in no case should he have a the chairman was not united in opinion, in double vote. preference to having it determined by the others, with whom he agreed? Why not give a double vote to the chairman, as well as to any of the other members of a committee, when found necessary?

Mr. Simeon here rose, and said, that as he plainly saw the opinion of the house was different from his own, he should withdraw the motion he had proposed-It was accordingly withdrawn.

Mr. C. W. Wynne concurred entirely with the hon. gent. who had spoken last, and who had anticipated almost every thing that he had meant to say on the subject. The analogy between the practice of that house and that of the committee did not seem to him to apply. It was essential to the dignity of the house, that the opinions of their Speaker should not be known, as his interference must thereby possess far greater weight and authority. The committee appointed their own chairman; he as well as the rest, being sworn to a faithful discharge of the trust reposed in them; and he believed, there was no instance for the 30 years that the act had existed, of a charge of partiality being even alledged against any one committee. He could not, therefore, see any propriety, in altering the law, or in saying that the person best qualified to judge on such an occasion, as the chairman must naturally be presumed to be, should alone be precluded from speak-bring in a bill to alter and amend so much ing and voting equally with the rest of the of the act of the 28th of his majecty, as committee. relates to Recognizances.

Lord Folkestone hoped, that the fate of the motion which had just been disposed of, would not have any influence upon that which he rose to make. The object of his motion was to make the notices at present required by an order of that house, respecting the entering into recognizances, a part of the law. The house would be more disposed to agree to his bill, as the effect of it would be to put an end to its interference in such cases, on applications for extending the time for receiving recognizan ces. He therefore moved for leave to

Mr. C. Wynne did not think the object of the noble lord's measure corresponded with its title. It would not alter nor amend the act of the 28th of the king, because there was no mention of notices in that act, neither was there any provision in it, respecting the time for presenting petitions.

The Attorney-General said, that he conceived the election laws to be of such very great importance, that the house should hear some very cogent reasons indeed urged, before they even allowed a bill to be brought in. He believed his learned friend's motives were pure and sincere; but as the subject had engaged much of his (the At-These matters were settled by the regulatorney-General's) attention, he found himself to be of a very different opinion. In courts of law, the judges were frequently equally divided in opinion, and consequently not able to decide; but ancient usage had been so much respected, that nobody had ever thought proper to propose any alteration in their constitution. In the year 1775, Mr. Grenville brought in that act, which gave the casting vote to the president of committees, and even where the numbers were equal, no case of unjust or improper partiality had occurred. His learned friend seemed to aim at theoretical and unattainable perfection. He appeared inclined to render the very person who was likely to be most intelligent amongst that committee,

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tions of that house, which all parties who came before it as petitioners, were bound to make themselves acquainted with. As there did not appear to him to be any necessity for an act of parliament on the subject, or to make the other house of Parhament a party to the orders by which the proceedings of that house were to be regulated, he should oppose the motion-The motion was then negatived without a division.

[FOREIGN PROPERTY IN THE FUNDS.] Mr. Bankes rose pursuant to notice. He was happy after the fate of the two last motions, to be able to state that he had one to make, which was not likely to meet with any opposition. The document for which he

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year ending Lady Day, 1806."

was to move, was a very important one, government. But, as he should very soon and was very material to the house to have have an opportunity of stating his opinion on its table, in order that gentlemen might on the general question respecting the. perceive how far the strength and resour finances of the country, he should then conces of this country were supported by its tent himself with moving, "That there be own property and means, and whether the "laid before the house an account of the property of foreigners in our funds was "amount of all Exemptions granted to Foconsiderable or insignificant. He had also "reigners, in respect of the duty on Divianother view in bringing forward his mo- deuds, in the various public funds of tion, namely, that it might he brought un- "Great Britain, and on the duty on Divider the consideration of the house, how far "dends on South Sea and East India the exemption of the property of foreign-"stock, under the Property tax, for the ers from the property tax was, or was not expedient. He did not mean then to enter into any argument upon the subject, but he was inclined to think that the exception of the property of foreigners from the tax had been founded on a mistake, and that this would be made manifest when the subject should come to be reviewed. He had framed his motion not so much with a view to this object, as on the precedent of a similar motion that had been made last year. As an indulgence had been granted to foreigners, he was of opinion that they would not be slow in claiming it, and that, therefore, the document he was to call for might be easily prepared. He took this opportuuity of asserting that his opinion on this subject remained the same as it was last session; and so far from having been in the slightest degree altered, it had been strengthened by consideration and reflection. He still continued to think that the property of foreigners should be subject to the tax. This was but an act of justice to our own subjects, to shew where the burthen of the tax fell, and could not be construed into a severity upon foreigners, who invested their money in our funds for its security, not for our advantage. If they enjoyed the protection, they ought to contribute in a just proportion to its maintenance. He would not have it understood, however, that he was pledged to bring forward any motion on the subject, because such a proceeding would, in a great degree, depend upon the support it would receive, and principally upon the opposition it would meet with. At the same time he was of opinion, that, though a motion might not lead to a successful result, there was often much advantage derived from the frequent discussions that took place even upon motions that might have been finally unsuccessful. He did not by any means propose to bring forward this question from views hostile to

Lord Henry Petty thought it might be more satisfactory to the hon. gent. to have the account made up to a later date, as well as more likely to answer the object he had in view. He was not aware that the account could be furnished to a later date, but wonld assure the hon. gent. and the house, that if upon enquiry he found that to be the case, the account should be presented. The information called for by the hon. gent. was such, that however he might differ from him as to the result to be drawn from it, he thought it ought, and could not with propriety be kept from the house. As the hon. gent. had with so much candour stated, that the opinion entertained by him last session on this subject remained unaltered, he thought it not amiss to declare, that upon the best reflection he could bestow upon the question, he could see no reason for changing the opinion he had on that occasion expressed of the propriety of granting the exemptions to the property of foreigners in the funds. He was confirmed in the opinion, when he considered the small assistance that could be derived from extending the tax to such property, and the indirect but great mischief that would result from adopting the suggestions of the hon. gent. At the same time he was ready to admit, that whenever the question was brought forward, he should be open to the arguments that he knew would be ably urged by the hon. gent. As to the expediency of bringing forward motions without any prospect of success, and the beneficial consequences of repeated discussions, he trusted that the present session of parliament would afford an instance (the Abolition of the Slave Trade) of the advantages and happy results of discussions upon reiterated motions.--The account was then ordered up to the latest period, to which it could be made out.

HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, February 10. [SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL.] The order of the day for the third reading of the bill for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, being read,

Lord Redesdale rose, and observed, that however the preamble of this bill might set out, that the African Slave Trade was unjust, inhuman, and impolitic, and, however it might be considered unjust, inhuman, and impolitic, to emancipate the Slaves in the West Indies, yet he considered the present measure would be the means of producing, in the West India Islands, all the horrors of a revolution that could possibly be conceived. The Abolition of the African Trade, he considered, should go hand in hand with that in the West India Islands; and however desirable an object the total abolition of the trade might be, he yet considered this instantaneous abolition, not only dangerous in itself, but likely to be productive of no particular good. As the bill stood at present, he could not give his assent to it, however he might be inclined to support it upon general principles; had it been a different description of bill, and went gradually to a general abolition of this trade, it should then have met with his hearty concurrence. He felt, that any attempt to withstand the present enthusiasm upon this subject would be in vain; but he could not help remarking, that when a legislature acted enthusiastically, they did not always act wisely, and he did not think that in the faithful and conscientious discharge of their duty, the opposers of this measure had much

to answer for.

The Earl of Buckinghamshire denied that the support which had been given to this measure, was to be attributed to mere feelings of enthusiasm. Mere enthusiasm was not calculated to last for 20 years, during which period this measure had been under discussion. It was, on the contrary, in his opinion, founded clearly on the grounds of justice and humanity, as well as upon a mature consideration of the present state of the West Indies. When a member of the house of commons in the year 1792, he voted for a gradua! abolition, conceiving that the persons concerned in the trade ought to have sufficient notice. Now, however, he had no doubt that the trade ought to be immediately abolished, not only because it was contrary to justice and humanity, but also because the abolition

was the only means of preventing those evils which must otherwise necessarily result from the multiplication of slaves in the West Indies.

The Duke of Norfolk approved of the bill, and expressed a confidence that the planters would by a moderate treatment of their slaves, contribute to bring about that state of the colonies which was so much to be desired.

The Earl of Westmoreland was at a loss to understand upon what principle of logic it was to be proved, that if the slave trade was contrary to justice and humanity, it was not also contrary to justice and humanity to keep the negroes who had been procured by means of the trade, in a state of perpetual slavery. He was not so mad as to think that liberty ought to be given to the slaves in the West Indies: but he contented, that upon the principles upon which the abolition was now founded, emancipation ought also to follow. If it was however determined finally to abolish the trade, it might at least be conceded to the feelings of the planters, and of those concerned in the trade, to erase the words, declaring it to be contrary to justice and humanity. It was thought, however, by some of the supporters of the bill, that by retaining these words, foreign powers might be humbugged, if he might use the expres sion, into a concurrence in the abolition. This, however, he did not think at all prac ticable, and it was surely a consideration of expediency, whether at a time when the continent of Europe was nearly shut against us, we should put an end to our trade with the continent of Africa, and by so doing, greatly injure and distress many persons, and deprive many more of the means of

subsistence.

Lord Grenville was glad to find that the opponents of this measure were nearly reduced to one argument, and that was, that the bill did not extend to the emancipation of the slaves already on the islands. The attempted application, however, of the same justice and humanity to both cases, resolved itself into this. In abolishing the trade we did justice to the inhabitants of Africa, who were the parties aggrieved, but in giving liberty to the slaves on the islands, we should do the greatest injustice to them in giving them that which they would not know how to use, and which would only be productive to them of injury. That li berty, the blessings of which we were ena

bled properly to estimate and appreciate, would be to them, in their state of iguorance and barbarism, a poison of the most baleful nature-The bill was then read a third time, passed, and ordered to be sent to the House of Commons.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

cedent and example of the motion of 1797, I find, that at that period, the appointment of a Committee of Finance to investigate public establishments, and to sift official abuses, was considered the best and most appropriate method of proceeding. That my present object would be best attained by moving for the appointment of a similar committee, I am inclined to conclude; particularly when I consider the advantage likely to result from an attentive persual of the valuable documents of the former, from the light which the labour and industry of that committee have actually thrown on the sub

Tuesday, February 10. [MINUTES.] On the motion of lord Howick, the call of the house, which stood for this day, for the purpose of insuring a sufficient attendance of members to form the ballot for the Maidstone Election com-ject, and, finally, from the eventual good, mittee, was deferred to Thursday. On the motion of lord Howick, it was ordered, that the Rev. M. Marlow, D. D. be desired to preach before the house on the 25th instant, the day of Public Fast.-The following are the names of the gentlemen on the reduced list, forming the committee to try the merits of the election and return for the Borough of Maidstone. Hon. W. Maule, J. Vaughan, esq. Hon. F. Robinson, Hon. J. Cust, John Patteson, esq. John Palmer, esq. W. Loftus, esq. J. Fuller, esq. Hon. E. Stewart, G. T. Steward, esq. Sir M. B. Foukes, T. Godfrey, esq. T. Shelly, esq. The parties having waved their right of appointing nominees, the committee retired, according to the provision of the act of parliament in such case, and themselves chose sir R. Peel, and the hon. W. Pole. The whole were then sworn at the table.

which the application of that information, assisted by the result of the intermediate time and circumstances, must in any future inquiry produce. There were certainly many impediments, and difficulties of no trifling nature, in the way of that committee. To some of their inquiries, they found it impossible to get even an answer; and in some cases, particularly those connected with Scotland, they were not only kept in ignorance of the necessary answers to their interrogatories, but were absolutely rendered incapable of extending their researches, from the obscurity and vagueness in which such objects of their inquiry were involved. Without troubling the house with any gene ral reasoning on the necessity of adopting a measure of the nature I propose, I will at present confine myself to the statement of some particular cases, and be satisfied with SINECURE PLACES AND PENSIONS.] drawing the attention of the house to those Mr. Biddulph rose and spoke as follows: immense emoluments which are attached to I rise, sir, in pursuance of the notice I had offices in the Exchequer, and to other the honour of giving on a former night, to branches of the national establishment, in submit to the consideration of the house, a the investigation of which, the appointment motion, connected with a system of econo- of a committee, founded on a Resolution my, and, in its import, similar to that pro- similar to that of 1797, would, in my posed by an hon. friend of mine in the opinion, be calculated to produce great and year 1797. In introducing this motion, I important benefits. The first thing that can with truth affirm, that my mind is strikes the public mind, as requiring retrenchtotally uninfluenced by those passions which ment, is the immense emoluments enjoyed may be supposed to agitate public men, in by some individuals in the department of bringing forward plans of retrenchment in the Exchequer. It is difficult to make the the national expenditure, or motions for public believe that the grants of these the reduction of places and pensions. The emoluments are unalterable, and there are strong conviction in my mind, that a great circumstances which induce me to think practical benefit would result to the country, they are not. The act of parliament of and to the revenue of the country, is the 1782 allowed to two of the Tellers of the most striking inducement with me for sub- Exchequer the antient fees of their offices, mitting my motion to the consideration of but limited the other two to a salary of the house. How that benefit would be 4000l. a year. This act did nothing more best procured, has also been the subject of than to leave the fees on thebasis of the regumy inquiry, and in referring to the pre-lations and practice of the Exchequer. It

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