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in the Barrack Department. It appeared that Davison had on some occasions got a sight of the terms given in by others, and by that means, by offering a trifle more, had secured the contract. If the noble lord was of opinion that any inconvenience would arise from the production of the paper, he would not press his motion. The rt. hon. gent. concluded by moving, "That the Opinion of the Attorney and SolicitorGeneral relative to the Abuses in the Barrack Department, arising out of the Third Report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, be laid before the house."

ther than by the Treasury. He might state without fear of its being controverted, that it was the duty of the Treasury, when they discovered any frauds to have been committed, to take measures for their punish

cy. He had no doubt that the learned gent. had given a sound and proper opinion. It only appeared to him, that the proceedings in this case ought to be conducted under the order of the house, and this was the object of his motion. This had been the practice of the house when frauds had been discovered in the management of the public money. He mentioned a case very similar to the present, which had occurred in the reign of queen Anne, where certain persons who had committed frauds in furnishing beer to the navy, had been prosecuted by the house. To be sure, these were discovered by a committee of the house, Lord Henry Petty said, he should not and here the commissioners had been ap- follow the right hon. gent. through all the pointed by the crown. But we were to look points he had touched upon, but he could at the nature of the abuses, which was such not but notice the position which had been as called for the interference of this house. laid down by him, that this was of that class The opinion of the Attorney and Solicitor of prosecutions which ought to be conductGeneral with respect to an allowance of in-ed under the authority of that house ra grain on coals had been given in the Report, but there was no opinion with respect to the fraud, as that was not then before them. It was difficult to find out where the frauds rested. A Mr. Hargrave, a coal-merchant, delivered 60 chaldron of coals for Mr.ment, and to secure the public interests. Davison, at 46s per chaldron, and yet this same Hargrave certified the price to be 60s per chaldron. Now, there was the case of Mr. Emerson, of Dover, who supplied coals at 45s per chaldron, and charged 9s 6d for carriage from Dover to Deal for each chal-appear necessary on the occasion. But he dron, making 54s 6d, whereas the certificate was, that the coals were 31. per chaldron, and that the carriage was 17s 8d. It might be supposed that the quantities ordered by Mr. Davison being so large, the merchants might have supplied him at a cheaper rate than the ordinary price. But this was not the case; for in one case where only 4 chaldrons were furnished, a monstrous surcharge appeared. Some of the transactions were attempted to be explained, but with regard to others, neither Mr. Davison, nor his clerk, it was said, attempted any explanation. The right hon. gent. then adverted to the ledger of George Walker, (who was executed a few months since for forgery) and to the differences of the prices which it disclosed. On the closest attention he could give the subject, he was inclined to think that some part might be immediately recovered, and that there were grounds for a criminal prosecution against some person. For that reason, he wished to have the opinion of the Attorney and Solicitor General, on the latter point. It manifestly appared, that there had been great abuses

If the Treasury did not act in this manner, they would merit the censure of that house; and if the Treasury should omit to take such measures, it would become the duty of that house to take such steps as might

should ask, what convenience would result from the house instituting a prosecution, after a proceeding had been adopted by the Treasury? The only effect of granting the paper moved for by the right hon. gent. would be to convey information to the defendant, of the strong and weak parts of the evidence against him, whereby he might be enabled to frustrate the objects of the prosecution, by secreting such parts of the evidence as might be necessary to supply any deficiencies at present existing. On the contrary, when the proceedings were carried on by the Treasury, no such information could be acquired before the proper time, and the ends of justice would thereby be secured. This was an illustration of the doctrine which he had stated, and when the right hon. gent. was aware of these circumstances, the noble lord had no doubt he would consent to withdraw his motion.

Mr. Perceval agreed that the motion ought to be withdrawn. He differed from his right hon. friend with respect to the practice of the house; for, if the prece

dents were closely examined, it would appear that in those cases where the house had taken up the matter, the discoveries had been made by committees of their own, and were connected with some affair before the house. But, even if the house should take the proceedings in this case into its own hands, he thought that the Attorney and Solicitor General ought to be ordered to proceed on the report, merely without giving in any previous detailed opinion. The reason why he thought so, was founded on the mischievous effects that would result from premature publicity, as had been stated by the noble lord. But while there was no pretence that the treasury did not do its duty, he apprehended that it was much better to leave the case in their hands.

Mr. Rose said, that after what had fallen from the noble lord, he would certainly, with the leave of the house, withdraw his motion.

pect of at length carrying into effect this great measure, would, perhaps, induce them to give way, in a small degree, to circumstances, and not to insist upon an abolition to take place immediately. He proposed that the time to be fixed for the abolition of the trade to the West Indies should be the 1st of January, 1808, but that the period after which no ships engaged in the trade should clear out from the ports of this country, should be the 1st of May in the present year. His object in proposing these periods was, that the vessels at present engaged in the trade might have a fair opportunity of clearing out from the ports of this country, previous to the 1st of May next, and afterwards of taking in their lading in the ports of Africa, and of carrying their cargoes to the West Indies, previous to the 1st of January, 1808. As it might happen, however, that from unavoidable circumstances some vessels might not be able to complete their cargoes on the coast of Africa, so as to carry them to the West Indies previous to that period, he intended to submit to the committee a proviso for the purpose of allowing vessels under such circumstances to trade to the West Indies with their cargoes.

Lord A. Hamilton explained, that the reason why he had the other night withdrawn his motion on this subject was, that he thought it would be attended with great inconvenience to interfere with the steps that had been already taken by the treasury. Lord H. Petty begged it to be understood, that no prosecution had as yet commenced, for the reasons which he stated on a former night. It was thought more ad-freemen or slaves. visable to postpone any prosecution till it could be seen what further lights would be furnished by the production of Mr. Davison's cash account with general Delancey.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, February 6.

[MINUTES.] On the motion of the archbishop of Canterbury, the bishop of Exeter was desired to preach before their lordships in Westminster Abbey, on Wednesday, the 25th instant, being the day appointed for a General Fast.

[SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL.] The house resolved itself into a committee on the bill for abolishing the Slave Trade. The preamble having been postponed,

Lord Grenville said, with respect to filling up the blanks in the bill, that the time which he intended to propose as the period for the abolition of this trade, might, perhaps, appear somewhat at variance with that eager desire which the house had expressed for the abolition, but the gratification arising from the near pros

Lord Hardwicke wished to know in what light the Black Corps in his majesty's service were to be considered, whether as

Lord Grenville replied, that he should have always considered them as freemen; but that at all events particular provision would be made for that case in the Mutiny bill for the year.

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Lord Redesdale hinted, that the bill, as it was now worded, might extend to our settlements in Asia Minor, and in the East Indies.

Lord Grenville observed, that no slaves had been imported to either for some time. He was aware, however, that both in the East Indies and in Asia Minor, there were many Christians who kept a number of slaves, but he did not conceive that this bill could be construed to extend so as to injure them in their property. He would, however, again consider the subject, and, if necessary, a clause to prevent the effect of any such construction might be proposed.-The blanks having been filled up, the noble lord proposed a proviso, allowing such vessels as should have cleared out from the ports of this country for Africa, previous to the 1st of May next, and should not have been able to complete their lading

houses were not obligatory, they were limitted to the members; but the act became obligatory upon the whole empire, upon those very colonial assemblies, whose opinions and feelings were known to be

in Africa, so as to carry their cargoes to the West Indies, previous to the 1st of January, 1808, to trade nevertheless to the West Indies with such cargoes. He also stated, that as some persons might take advantage of the interval allowed, to make | widely different. He therefore trusted, as two voyages with the same vessel, he intended, therefore, to propose a clause to prevent that advantage from being taken. The provisions of the bill having been gone through, the preamble was again taken into consideration.

the noble lords had carried the measure, for the accomplishment of which they ap peared so anxious, that they would join in an amendment, in no manner hostile to the principle, but which, in its operation, might have the effect of promoting its success, by the reconciliation of the different interested parties. The noble lord then moved, “That the words inconsistent with the principles of justice and humanity,' be left out of the preamble of the bill."

The Earl of Carnarvon assured their lordships, that, with the feelings which actuated hins, and the views he entertained of that unjust and execrable traffic, he could by no means acquiesce in the amendment of the noble lord. To palliate guilt and compromise injustice he never would consent, nor should he think of shrinking from the exposure of a system, as illegal as it was inquitous. The laws of the country equally extended to every part of the British

Lord Hawkesbury declared his disinclination to enter into any discussion of the merits of the measure, after the opinion which a great majority of their lordships had, on a former occasion, pronounced. But, with the conviction he entertained of the impropriety of introducing abstract principles into the preamble of the bill, he conceived it his duty to submit to the Committee an amendment, which should exclude the terms "justice and humanity," and confine the necessity of abolishing the slave trade, solely to the inexpediency of its continuance. He could not see what objections the warmest advocates for the abolition could have to the amendment. The preamble, as it then stood, unneces-empire, as well on the high seas as to the sarily mooted a point, on which a great difference of opinion existed, and which, if suffered to be made a part of the law of the land, and of the colonies, might be productive of mischievous and fatal consequences; of those consequences which the noble baron, who introduced the bill, so strongly deprecated; he meant any illgrounded conclusions which the Negroes in the West Indies might infer, relative to their emancipation, as connected with the measure of abolition. Indeed, it was a conclusion natural for men in their circumstances to make, when they found the law of the land declaring that system unjust and inhuman, by the operation of which they were detained in a state of slavery. Some allowance should also be made for the feelings and characters of those who had embarked their property in the African trade; and as the end was obtained, it was exceeding even the practice of hostile parties, to continue and promulgate an imputation, which nothing but the inability of succeeding in the object could justify. It might be objected, that the resolutions of the two houses of parliament had already expressed the same opinion; but he begged leave to state a marked difference in the two cases. The resolutions of the two

colonies; and if the necessity of cultivating the waste lands of the West India islands was a sufficient plea for the violation of justice, upon equal principles of propriety, the peasantry of this kingdom might be dragged from their homes, to till and labour in the inclosure of waste lands. (A cry of " Order.”) Noble lords might accuse him of not being in order, but he felt he was acting perfectly orderly, and, therefore, should continue to exercise his own judgment, in exposing a system of oppression and rapine, which, if suffered to continue, would be ultimately extended even to this country.

“Malum quo non aliud velocius ullum;

Mobilitate viget, viresque acquirit cundo;
Parva metu primo: mox sese attolit in auras,
Ingrediturque solo, et caput inter nubila condit."

The Lord Chancellor observed, that the expression in the preamble having been admitted by the noble lord (Hawkesbury) to be true, it followed that it ought to be retained. What was the objection of the noble lord last night? It was, that this trade ought not to be abolished, except in conjunction with foreign powers, and now the noble lord, by his motion, would take away the only ground upon which we could ask other powers to co-operate in the abolition

of the trade. If we declared that we aboJished the trade on the ground of expepediency alone, then it might be fairly supposed that we did so for reasons applicable to ourselves alone, or to our own colonies; but by stating broadly and distinctly that the trade was contrary to justice and humanity, we took a ground upon which we might fairly call upon other powers to co-operate with us in abolishing the trade. He could not discover any reason for apprehending danger from thus expressing, in a legislative act, their opinion of the trade, whilst the retaining the words objected to, was the best mode they could at present adopt of leading to a general abolition.

Earl Morton thought the adoption of abstract principles in a legislative act, was inconsistent with the wise and wary language which their ancestors had used on such occasions, and seemed rather like an adoption of that mode of expression which had been so repeatedly used in modern France.

Earl Stanhope approved highly of the expressions in the preamble which had been objected to. He thought, however, that this bill would not do much towards the abolition of the slave trade without the adoption of adequate regulations in the colonies. It might, perhaps, be proper to enact, that every slave imported into the islands contrary to law, after the time limited for the abolition of the trade, should ipso facto be free. If the local legislatures would not adopt regulations sufficient to carry the abolition into complete effect, we had the means of compelling them, by imposing additional duties, and in other ways. If we could not speak to their hearts we might to their pockets, and by the latter mode produce a greater effect than could possibly be produced by Demosthenian or Ciceronian eloquence.

Lord Redesdale expressed apprehensions that dangers would arise from retaining these expressions in the preamble, and called the attention of the house to the dangerous consequences which resulted in France from the adoption of abstract principles in legislation, which, however true in themselves, were applied in a manner that produced confusion and anarchy in that country.

The Earl of Lauderdale maintained that the words which it was proposed to leave out, were the most essential words in the bill. How was the great object of general abolition to be attained, if it appeared upon

the face of our own proceedings that we were only actuated by considerations of expediency, and that in calling upon other powers to abolish the trade, we made no sacrifice ourselves? This he could illustrate by communications, which he had whilst at Paris, with one of the French ministers on this subject. On his urging to the ministers the abolition of this trade, he was answered, that it could not be expected that the French government, irritated as it had been by the conduct of the negroes in St. Domingo, would readily agree to the abolition of the trade. He replied, that the abolition would have been the only effectual means of preventing the horrors which had occurred in that island. Then the truth came out: he was told by this minister, that England, with her colonies well stocked with negroes, and affording a large produce, might abolish the trade without inconvenience; but that France, with colonies ill stocked and deficient in produce, could not abolish it without conceding to us the greatest advantages and sustaining a proportionate loss. Thus, then, if we were to declare the ground of our abolishing the trade to be expediency alone, we should be declaring that we were actuated by the very policy imputed to us by the French minister; and how, in thus being supposed to make no sacrifice ourselves, could we call with any effect upon foreign powers to co-operate in the abo lition?

The Duke of Montrose declared himself to be a friend to the abolition, but thought at the same time, that it would be better to leave out the words objected to.

Lord Holland said he conld not clearly understand the distinctions which had been attempted to be drawn between justice and expediency. He was of opinion, that if the subject was fully considered, those distinctious would be found to center in the same point. It was not a distinction between justice and expediency with respect to abolition and emancipation; on the contrary, whilst on the one hand it was essentially just that the trade should be abolished, it would on the other be injustice to the slaves in the islands to give them emancipation, because it could only tend to their own injury. He was surprised to hear the noble and learned lord (Redesdale) condemming the introduction of abstract principles into legislation. What did our Bill of Rights contain but abstract principles? He was decidedly of opinion that the words ought

to be retained. No danger whatever had resulted from similar conduct in several of the provinces in America, where the trade had been abolished, and slavery still con tinued.

[PETITION RESPECTING THE HAMPSHIRE ELECTION.] Mr. Ashton Smith rose to present a Petition to the house from several respectable Freeholders of the county of Hampshire, complaining of the improper interference of persons in office for the purpose of influencing the last election for the county of Hampshire.

sent.

The Duke of Clarence urged the danger which might result from retaining these expressions. When the negroes in the islands found that no fresh importations took place, Mr. Tierney wished the hon. gent. would they would naturally inquire the cause, and state more explicitly the nature and obwhen they found that the trade was abo-ject of the petition he was about to pre lished, and declared to be contrary to justice, humanity, and sound policy, would it not have a material effect in their minds with respect to their own situation, and the means by which they were brought there? -The committee then divided on the question, that the words objected to stand part of the preamble. Contents, 33; non-contents, 10; majority 23. The house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. C. Wynne could not vote for the admission of a paper, of which he was, as yet, entirely ignorant.

The Speaker acquainted the hon. gent. that in presenting a petition he was bound to open the matter thereof to the house, and also to state the prayer of the petitioners. If the petition contained a prayer, it undoubtedly was entitled to the attention of the house; but, if not, the house could not receive any statements the petitioners might think proper to make, as a petition claiming its consideration.

Mr. Canning observed, that the petition contained a statement of a grievance, comin-plained of by the subjects, and as such, was entitled to the consideration of parlia

Mr. Broderick intimated, that the peti tion complained of a breach of the privileges of that house, and contended, that it ought to be received.

Friday, February 6. MINUTES.]-Sir Ralph Milbanke, Chairman of the Saltash Election Committee, formed the house, that the said committee met this morning, pursuant to their adjournment. ment of yesterday, and G. V. Vernon, esq. one of the members of the said committee, not attending, the committee continued to sit for one hour, and then adjourned till tomorrow. Ordered, That the said Mr. VerMr. A. Smith stated, that the petition non do attend this house, in his place, upon would not be found defective in any of the Monday next. Mr. Johnson, from the of usual forms, and took upon himself to affice of the chief secretary for Ireland, pre- firm, that it did contain a prayer: an alsented an Account of the Receipts and Dis-ledged grievance was complained against, bursements of the commissioners of Public and it was prayed that that house would Accounts in Ireland, for the year ending the interfere to remedy or to remove it. The 5th of January 1807. Ordered to lie on Petition was then read, and was as folthe table.-Ordered, on the motion of Mr. lows:- That the petitioners think it their Bathurst, that the committee appointed to duty to represent to the house, that, presearch for precedents touching the expul-viously to the late election of knights to sion of members, have power to send for persons, papers, and records.-A new writ was ordered for the city of Worcester, in the room of Henry Bromley, who since histuations of high trust and authority in election had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.-Lord Temple brought up the Cape of Good Hope Trade bill, which was read a first time. The house, on the motion of Mr. Vansiltart, resolved itself into a committee of supply, and resolved that a sum not exceeding 1,200,000l. be granted to his majesty, for discharging the Interest of such Exchequer Bills as may have been paid off in the year 1806.

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serve in parliament for the said county, measures of the most unconstitutional nature were resorted to by persons in si

'different departments of the executive government, for promoting the success of Thomas Thistlethwayte, esq. and the hon. W. Herbert, two of the candidates, 'whose pretentions were favoured by his 'majesty's ministers, in violation of the dearest rights of the petitioners, and as they humbly apprehend, of the privileges of the house; that, among other instan'ces of such interference, they think it

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