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Mr. Johnsone contended, that the state-ceeded to enter into an examination of the ments inade on a former evening by the estimates, contending that there was no noble lord (Castlereagh) had hitherio re-proof whatever in them of economy, and mained unanswered. He congratulated, particularly noticing the item of contingenhowever, the gentlemen on the other side, cies, which was stated at 52,0001. Upon on the new discovery they had made re- another point also be wished for some saspecting the merits of the administration of tisfactory information, which a noble viscount (Sidmouih). After ha- were the nature of the duties executed by ving, at a former period, heaped upon that the muster-master general of Ireland, and noble viscount as a minister every term of why it was thought pecessary for that office reprobation which their imagination could to be executed by two persons ? conceive, they had at length found out Mr.Rose expressed bis regret at being that his administration was the most ener- obliged to detain the house at solate an hour, getic of any for these three years past. As but he felt it bis duty to make a few observato the boasted measure of the right hon. tions, in consequence of its having been asgeut. (Mr. Windham) for recruiting the serted by gentlemen on the other side, that if army, it must be evident thai it had com- these estimates had been broughtforward by pletely failed. Tois appeared the the late administration, the amount would right bon. gentleman's own statement. It have been 5 or 600,0001. greater than their could not be expected that it would produce present amount. He could not avoid, any other result. Was it by friitering however, digressing from this subjert, to away the bounty of the country in pen- notice two or three other points. He had nies and twopences that an army was to listened to the panegyric of the hon. barebe raised ? Was it not rather by holding net, sir John Doyle, upon present and out splendid rewards, whichi, though only former statesmen, and was extremely surfalling to the lot of a few, were induce - prised to hear bim praise ministers for ments to the many, that an army was to be their conduct during the late negociation, expected to be created ? Ministers how- a measure which, above all others, in his ever, had not recurred to any thing of this opinion, was calculated to hold them up to nature, they had rather chosen to go on in the contempt of the country. Tbe other the old way, and to grant promotions only point was the delay in sending reinforceto favour and to connections. What was ments to Buenos Ayres. It was admitted to prevent them from recruiting from the hat ministers received intelligence of sir militia ? According to the right hon. gent.'s Home Popham's expedition on the 24th of plau, the militia were to be reduced to June, and yet no reinforcements were sent 40,000 men; from the surplus number, out till. October. It had been alleged that therefore, the army might be strongly re- there were no transports. Why were there eruited. Yet, notwithstanding the ease not? During the greater part of the adwith which this mode of recruiting might ministration of his right hon. friend, now no be resorted to, it had not been adopted. inore, transports were kept constantly isWhy, the real reason he believed to be, ing at Spithead, sufficient for three thoubecause ministers were afraid of offending sand men, with victuallers ready to accom.« the militia colonels. This, of course, they pany them. It was not to be expecied could not state in that house, but this he that transports were to be ready for a stay of believed to be the real reason. It bad four or five years, in any place to which again been stated by a right hon. secretary they might be sent, but certainly transports of the treasury this evening, that he (Mr.J.) were at the disposal of ministers, suthcient bad pledged himself to make a notion re- to enable them to send a strong reinforcespecting the conduct of ministers relative to ment to that expedition. His right hon. their professions of economy. He thought friend also constantly took care that there it necessary therefore again to deny, thai should be a brigade of three or tour thou. he bad so pledged himself. At the same sand men kept ready for any emergency time, he conceived that ministers had acted Returning to the subject of the estimates, wholly contrary to their professions of eco- he found that the amount of them was ac nomy, and that all they had done was to Lually 475,0001. more than those of 1805, give salaries to themselves, and with re- This was a sufficient answer to the ageerspect to salary granted to one of them he tion, that the late ministers would have did intend to make it a subject of discus- made the estimates higher. With respect sion in that house. The hon. gent. pro- to the increased allowances in the Chelsea Vol. VIII,
establishment, he would be the last man to from the one place to the other at that time, object to an increase of the rewards grant- the bearer niust, without the convenience ed to those who had spent great part of of stage coaches, have travelled between 3 their lives in the service of their country, and 4000 miles in the course of 72 days, but he dreaded the effect of these increased and that over roads considerably worse allowances in a peace establishment. `In than those of the Alps, or the very worst the event of a peace, probably 50,000 men parts of the continent of Europe. would be discharged, and, adding the in- Lord H. Petty corrected some appre. creased allowances, an additional expence bensions which appeared to have prevailed would arcrue of 6 or 700,0001.
among gentlenien on the opposite side of Mr. H. Thornton thought the measure of the house. It was stated, that the number the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windhain) for of men raised according to the papers on recruiting the army, deserved the highest the table, did not equal the amount of praise as a general and permanent system, what his riglit bon, friends had stated in but he doubted its effect in providing for their speeches. It was to be recollected, immediate defence. He approved highly however, the papers began the account of converting the service for life into a from the monih of March last, and, of service for years. He approved also of the course, they did not contain a year's return. training bill, as tending to difluse a mili. Now, if gentlemen would have the goodtary spirit throughout the country, but at ness to wait until the month of March the same time be thought it was calculaied next, he was confident, from the result of to do any thing rather than provide for im- the most minute enquiries which he had mediate defence. The right hon. gent. had made in the best informed quarters, that on former occasions given them the tone by that time the numbers would even in calling for measures calculated to pro-exceed those staled in the estimale of liis cure an iininediate supply for the army, right hon. friends; the house had also the and he inust allow them to give him the testimony of a gallant oslicer near him tone again, in calling for measures of a si-(general Doyle), that the measure of the milar nature. Much time was necessarily right hun. secretary was already the means lost in preparing great measures, and in of adding to the consideration and character carrying them into execution, and be felt of our army; then, when he considered anxious for some measure that should in that it was thought by the noble lord (Case the mean while meet the immediate exi- tlereagh) and the other gentlemen on the gencies of the country.
opposite side of the house, to be a inost Mr. Jacob made a few observations rela- grievous piece of expence, that some tritive to the capture of Buenos Ayres. Aing addition should be given to the solAmong other things, he stated that a most vier who was disabled in the service of bis able and intelligent officer, à gentleman country; when he reflected on this, he who had been particularly noticed in the could not say that he envied the feelings dispatches from that place, had informed of those noble and honourable members. him that nothing but the great prompti- Ob iniserable thought to their minds, if tude of general Beresford, prevented the some happy man should, after the faithful arniy from laying down their arms; and discharge of his duty to his king and coun. that, if it were not that the most active try, enjoy perlaps some 201. a year! For and spirited exertions were made by that his own part, he was anxious to reform officer, if they were delayed for the space abuses and diminish expences whete the of two or three hours, the whole army practices were known to be corrupt or the must have met with inevitable destruction, establishments useless; and he would An account of the recapture of that place challenge the gentlemen on the opposite had been put into his hands since he had side to contradict bin when he stated to come into the house ; but from a compa- the house, that in the staff at home, there rison of the date of that communication, had been, within the last year, a saving of and the place it came from, with the date 43,0001, and in the barrack department, of the original capture, and the situation notwithstanding there had been last year of the city itself, he found that it was im- retrenchment to the amount of 500,0001. possible that the fact could then have ta- there was in this year a further saving of ken place, and therefore could not suppose 50,0001, and in the commissariat depart. from that authority, that it had taken place ment there were nine places less than ir at all.'. To have carried the intelligence the preceding year. But to give grud:
singly to the worn-out veteran was a thought Mr. Wilberforce, from the letters which which he could not bear; and he was of he had received from different parts of the opinion, that his right hon, friend (Mr. country, could state, that the measure Windham) was entiiled to the thanks or before the house, was one which had exthe country for the act, not of generosity, cited a considerable and lively sensation but of humanity and justice, he must call in the country. He agreed in the suggesit, which he had done in their name to a tion that had been so ably urged by the most deserving set of men. The volun- bon. genl., for the appointment of a comteer corps had been mentioned on the mittee to consider of the act, before which other hand, with a view of reflecting on all the parties interested might be fully ministers for having made a saving in the heard. expence of that establishment; but, to the Lord Temple wished to say a few words volunteers, he would give the credit that just to acquit himself of the charge of prebelonged to them, and say he knew that cipitation in bringing forward this measure. they were not to be looked upon as a mer- The clause of the act which it was de. senary body; he was well convinced that signed to repeal, had lain dormant, and had they would not luck with a magnifying never been acted upon, till, in the course glass at every little saving that was made of last sessions, prosecutions had been inin the public expeuce attendant on their stituted for the receiving of penalties in. establishment. When he looked at the to- curred under it. He had thought it netal of the estimates, and heard gentlemen cessary in that instance to bring forward opposite say, “ Oh, but if you bad let us a bill to suspend these prosecutions, and stay in another year, you should have seen had then given notice of his intention to what vast savings we should have made !" produce the present measure to the house it reminded him of what was said of a man, (early in this session. But, whatever his who wished to become celebrated for a wit : feeling of the necessity of the measure That his wit was very good, but that it might be, he was alive to the parawas all borrowed from yesterday; in speak- mount necessity of procuring every posing of those gentlemen, he must reversethis sible help to enable the house to judge observation, and say that all their clever- upon the question, and was therefore reaness was borrowed from to-morrow.–After dy, with the permission of the bouse, to some further observations, the resolutions put off the second reading of the bill to were read a second time and agreed to. this day fortnight, under an understanding,
that if ibe committee should not report in HOUSE OF COMMONS.
the intermediate time, the second reading Monday, January 26.
should then be deferred to a more distant (Oax BARK Bill.] On the motion of day. lord Temple, that the Oak Bark bill be Mr. Rose thought that the committee read a second time,
could not report in a fortuight, nor, fossibly, Mr. W. Herbert said, he was sorry to in two monibs. He was of opinion, that oppose any measure proposed by his no. the repeal ought to extend to a great part ble friend, but could not agree to the bill of the act of James, though not to the in its present torin. If the act of James 1. whole of its provisions. Was to be revised, he thought that all the Mr. Sheridan thought it would be a great penalties imposed by that statute should hardship, to tanners, if this clause were to be repealed, It appeared to him to be an be repealed, whilst the penalties under the act of injustice to repeal the clause that other provisions of the act were to be conwas the object of this bill, and to leave the tinued. As the suspension act of last rest of the penalties imposed by that mea- session was to be in force only till 40 days gure in force. The repeal of the whole afier the commencement of the preseut act was necessary to the comfort of the session, he subniitted to his noble friend different classes of tradesmen, whose in- whether it would not be better that the bill terests were concerned, and it would not should go into a con.mittee in order 10 be prejudicial to the public. He begged prevent the renewal of the prosecutions on to suggest to his noble friend the propriety the expiration of the suspension bill. of putting off the second reading of the bill, Mr. Corry highly approved of the propoand of appointing in the mean time a com- sal of the noble lord to put off the second mittee to consider of the propriety of the reading of the bill, only from time to time, revision, or repeal of the whole act. and not for any long period at once.
was of opinion, that the committee mighthouse in the last session of the last parliareport in a short space of time.
ment numbered 3, with its six supplements, Mr. Whitbread observed, that the mea- and also the papers nunibered 4 and 5, be sure had excited great interest in the coun- re-printed for the use if the house." try, and the manner in which his noble Lord Howick said, that as he now friend had conducted himself with respect clearly understood that the noble lord to it, would prove satisfactory to the coun-moved for the papers, for the purpose of try. He thought that the committee would grounding some motion which he intended be able to report in a short timc, because to bring before the house with all convethe whole of the clauses of the old act vient expedition, he could have no objecwere inapplicable to the present time ; and tion to the motion. It must be the desire trusted iliat the second reading would not of the house that the noble lord should be deferred for any considerable time. persevere in the business he had underta
Mr. Gratian was bappy to find that the ken. He should, however, be glad that particular clause in the act of James was the noble lord would give the house some to be repealed. When the present bill had general idea of the line he meant to pursue been brought forward, it bad excited great upon the documents for which he moved, alarm amongst the tanners of Dublin, who and inform the house whether he meant to had done him the honour to send a depu- ring forward any motion on the Mahratta tation to him on the subject. If this par- and Carnatic papers ? ticular clause were not to be repealed, il Lord Folkestone thought it hardly fair to would be necessary to have some Irish tan- expect that he should, in this early stage ners examined before the committee, which of his proceeding, be called upon to state would require time. The second reading precisely the course which he might deem of the bill was put off to Monday se'n. it adviseable to pursue. But yet be was night.
willing to give all the information in lis (Conduct OF LORD Wellesley.] Lord power, wishing it however to be underFolkestone,in submitting the motion of which stood, that he would not hold himself bound he had given notice to the house, begged by what he might now say. His purpose to state ibe reasons upon which he founded was, as far as his mind was made up, to that motion. Certain proceedings had move a resolution or resolutions, expresbeen instituted in the last parliament, sive of the opinion of the house as to the founded on papers that had been laid be conduct of lord Wellesley relative to the fure the house, preparatory to the impeach- nabob of Oude; but without moving for inent of marquis Wellesley ; which pro- any impeachment or criminal proceeding. ceedings had fallen to the ground by the With respect to the other charges against dissolution of parliament. The gentleman that noble lord, he felt a difficulty in anwho had instituted these proceedings, swering the question of the noble secretary was not at present a nember, though he of state, because he had devoted much was a petitioner to that house, with conti. less of his attention to them than to that dent bopes of being stated in it. The ob- to which his motion referred. As to the ject of his motion was, that the papers re- charge which related to the Carnatic, a lating to the Oude Charge should be re-right hon. gent. (Mr. Sheridan) stood printed, and be laid on the table of the pledged to support it, if taken up by any house as early as possible, as considerable other person; and the opportunity of re. delay had taken place last session on this seeming his pledge would, he rather head. This would be a convenience to all thought, be afforded him. Upon the subparties.
When sufficient time should be ject of the Malıratta papers, he was disposed allowed for the consideration of the papers, to think that they unfolded some trausacafter they should be on the table, if the tions which would form good ground for a gentleman who had originally brought the charge. But upon this point he had formsubject before the house, should not be a ed no. resolution, nor would he at present member, he should certainly bring forward pledge himself to any other than the Oude the business himself. He thought it right, charge. however, to state, that he did not mean to Sir John Anstruther thought it would be push the question to an impeachment. extremely satisfactory to the house, if the Reserving himself to reply to any objec- noble lord could answer more decidedly as tions that should be made to his motion, to the course be meant to pursue, should he moved, “ That the papers laid before the the papers be granted ; he also wished to
know, how soon he proposed to make the hon. friend Mr. Paull. Then, of course, inotion that was to be grounded on the pro- he disapproved of his hon. friend's mode of duction of these papers.
proceeding. It was rather surprising that Lord Folkestone found his difficulty in the noble lord did not, in the course of the creased instead of diminished, by his rea- last, or preceding sessions, advise his hon. diness to give the noble lord every expla- friend to abandon that mode. It was not nation that was in his power upon the sub- quite so friendly not to have given him a ject. All that he would pledge himself to hint. But, a word or two as to the pledge was the Oude charge, and, he supposed, to which the noble lord had alluded. If that, about a month or 5 weeks after the that noble lord had been present, be inight printing of the papers he should be ready have heard him two or three times, state to make bis motion. The Mahratta and distinctly to the house, the reasons which Carnatic questions floated at present but had produced the delay he complained of, loosely in his mind, and he was not and also the grounds upon which he had prepared to say how he should act upon brought forward this question. He, howthem.
ever, utterly denied that he had ever forSir John Anstruther declared himself to feited the slightest pledge on this business. be perfectly satisfied with this explanation, He defied any man even to catch him and allowed that the noble lord had an- tripping. All that he ever said, and the swered with great fairness and candour grounds upon which he had acted, he was every thing which could be expected for ready to repeat again and again, and upon him to answer.
that repetition he would confidently rest Mr. Whitshed Keene considered, that it for the justification of his conduct. Whenwas for the honour and dignity of the house ever that conduct was fairly represented that the proceedings of the last session and clearly understood, he would have no should not now be dropped.
fear of censure. He was now prepared Mr. Bankes wished for some further ex- to declare, that if any other person, whoplanation. He considered the noble lord ever that person might be, should bring as acting as a sabstitute for Mr. Puull. If forward the Carnatic question, he would that gentleman should succeed in his peti- most distinctly pledge himself to give that tion, (how probable or desireable such an person his most zealous, active and cordial erent would be he should not say), then assistance; and to exert as much of his the impeachment was not to go on; should humble ability in support of the motion, he fail, then there were only to be resolu- as if it had been actually brought forward tions of the house. He should always dis- by himself. approve of impeachments for Indian of Lord Folkestone replied, that he would fences, seeing that there was a cunipetent not enter into a controversy with the right jurisdiction appointed to try them by the hon. gent. upon the subject of his former act of 1784.
pledges. But he recollected very accuMr. Sheridan said, that the motion had rately that the right hon. gent, did prohis approbation, and he hoped that the inise to bring this question of the Carpatic noble lord would not consider his baving before the house. As to the grounds updeclined to notice the allusion which he on which he had been induced to abandon had thought proper to make to him as the that question, he really was not apprized effect of any disrespectful inattention. The of them. He had heard something of the noble lord, in announcing his conditional right hon. gent.'s unwillingness to excite notice, had expressed his hopes, that the unpleasant sensations among his colleagues original mover of these papers would suc. in office-that is, in plain English, that he ceed in his petition. [" No,” said lord was not willing to lose bis place. The noFolkestone, “ I stated that such was the ble lord was, however, glad to hear the hope of Mr. Paull.”) Oh! that Mr. right hon. gent.'s fresh pledge this evenPaull had such hopes, (continued Mr. She- ing: for his strenuous and sincere assistridan,) was extremely probable. He was, ance, wherever he would be strenuous and no doubt, a very active canvasser and a sincere, would, no doubt, be a most imsanguine politician; but he must excuse portant acquisition indeed The noble him (Mr. S.), if he declined to sympathize lord repelled the idea, that he was the iu his hopes. But, as to the noble lord, he substitute of Mr. Paull or of any man. announced his resolution to pursue a dit. He was actuated solely by a sense of duty, ferent course from that followed by bis and even the friends of lord Wellesley