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Mr. Rose stated, that the paper he had brought up the report of the Army Esti was his own property, as it was a case for mates. Upon the first resolution being. which he himself paid, and that the origi-read, nal ought to be in the treasury.

Sir James Pulteney rose. He said, that Mr. Ruthven asked where the original considering the lateness of the hour, he was, in what office, and what denomina- should confine himself to a very few obtion? servations. As to the new military sys Mr. Rose did not know what particular tem being productive of an immediate supplace, as he was not keeper of the papers. ply for the army, it was now proved that The motion for the grant of 10,000 menit had not had that effect; and although was agreed to, as were the following motions: 240,500l. for wages for ditto, for 13 months; 247,000l. for victualling, &c.; 390,000l. for wear and tear of ships; 32,500l. for ordnance; 1,135,4347. for the ordinaries of the navy; 2,134.903/. for building ships in merchants' yards, and other extra expences; 1,500,000l. for the hire of transports; 300,000. for sick and wounded seamen; 500,000/. for prisoners of war.

the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) might not have been very sanguine as to the nuraber that it might raise, yet it must be supposed that the advocates of the system did expect that it would at least produce some increase; whereas, on the contrary, it appeared by the estimates that it had occasioned a diminution. In order to make room for this system, which had only produced 5000 men in a year, we had repealed a former system which had produced 15,000. Mr. Vansittart moved the following However his majesty's ministers Light sums for miscellaneous service: 6,8531. hope that this measure would ultimately for the superintendance of aliens; 12,000/. be beneficial, he must ask them, did not for defraying the expences of the public they consider that some supply was necesoffice in Bow Street; 51,350l. for con- sary for the army in the present year, and victs at home; 15,000, for contingencies whether any of their measures had a tenin the offices of the three secretaries of dency to procure that supply? The hon. state; 12,000l. for messengers for the secretary at war had contented himself secretaries' offices, &c.; 175,000l. for fo- with saying, no bad effects have been yet reign and secret service money; 20,000/. felt from this measure; he thought, howefor law charges; 3,000l. for the expence ver, that he should have gone a little farof prosecuting those concerned in the for-ther, and shewed that some good effects gery of coin, &c.; 11,600/. for sheriffs of had been produced by it. As to the traincounties to defray the extra expence incur-ing bill, it was a measure he extremely red in the conviction of felons, &c. ; wished to be carried into effect. 140,1997, for the relief of French, Dutch, there was a moment in which the measure and Corsican emigrants, and also of Ame- was necessary, it was no less necessary at rican loyalists; 1,432l. 13s. 6d. to pay the present moment. The danger was not the balance advanced for ditto in 1806; to be despised because it was somewhat 1,336/. for the relief of poor dissenting distant; but, on the contrary, we should ministers, and French refugees; 1,8287. take that opportunity of being fully prepafor the use of a certain class of ministers; red to meet it when it should come. If the 1,934. for stationery, &c. to the court of bill ever was a good one, it ought now to exchequer, &c.; 5,210. for the salaries be carried into effect; but if, in the opiand other expences of certain offices con-ion of parliament, it was a bad bill, it nected with hoth houses of parliament: 39,7601. to defray the expence of certain improvements that have been made, and are still to be made in the buildings of both houses of parliament; 11,800/. to make good the vote of last session for defraying the expence of certain additions to the houses of parliament, and also to that of the speaker; 4,9937. for paying the expence of military roads in North Britain.-The several motions were agreed to, the house resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up on Monday.

[ARMY ESTIMATES.] Mr. Hobhouse

If ever

ought to be repealed. As to the volunteers, although it had been said by a noble lord that they were as numerous now as at any former time, yet it was notorious that there was by no means the same attendance at drills and musters that there was formerly, and that consequently the force could not be so effective.

Sir John Doyle rose and addressed the house as follows. Sir; I admit that it would be much more convenient to agree to the adjournment proposed by the hon. member (Mr. Rose), though it certainly does not come with the best grace from

this side of the house [the general spoke | began by cutting off the resources of its new from the opposition bench], for, in their long ally; whereas the plan of the right hon. calculations, they forgot to calculate time. secretary is calculated to produce a good (A laugh.) Before I observe upon what regular income, without racking the tenanhas fallen in the course of this discussion, try. It appears from the statement of the I wish, sir, to account for my addressing noble lord (Howick), that since it has beyou from this side of the house, differing gun to operate, it has produced more men, so materially as I do upon this subject for a similar period, than the Parish bill from the gentlemen who usually sit here. and ordinary recruiting put together, even I have not, in truth, come into their camp without including the enlistments at head to spy the nakedness of the land; but speak quarters, and the desertions considerably from this side for reasons, perhaps, simi- diminished; and here I must say, that the lar to those of some of my neighbours; right hon. secretary has not treated his because we cannot get good places at measure so well as the measure has treated the other side. [This created a general him, by having lost so much time in carryburst of laughter throughout the house.] ing it into effect. I will not follow the noI perfectly concur with my hon. friend ble lord (Castlereagh) in his infinite series. who spoke last (sir James Pulteney), that of diverging calculation, which, rapidly acwe ought to have an augmented, a well-cumulating in its progress, was to overorganised, and well-disciplined army; that whelm the country with the expence of we should allow no relaxation of our efforts providing for its brave and worn-out defento obtain that desirable object; because ders. A calculation that would deprive feel that the perils which call for that army the veteran of a chance of spending, in calm are by no means abated; that although repose, the evening of that day he had dedanger is at a distance, it is not at an end. dicated to the service of his country, and But yet I. differ most materially from my bring "his grey hairs with sorrow to the hon. friend as to the means of providing grave." A calculation which stooped to the army we require. I differ from him, visit the truckle-bed of infirmity, in Chelparticularly, as to his opinion respecting sea and Kilmainham hospitals. A calculathe Additional Force act. That act ap-tion which wanted nothing but just data to pears to me to have done almost every thing stand upon; thereby following_the_mode but what it professed to have in view. When of demonstration ascribed by Mr. Locke it was active, it was mischievous; when it was inactive only, it was tolerable. After 18 months trial, it was found defective, but then ministers were just going to mend it. This puts me in mind of one of our poets, who was very deformed, and who was in the habit of exclaiming, " God mend me!" and having once uttered it before a country clown" mend thee!" quoth Hodge, "it would be easier to make a dozen new ones, than mend such an ill-for-heart; for, surely, there never was a pemed one as thou art." So it may be said of this act. (A laugh.) The time they proposed for the amendment, reminds me of the story of a certain priest's maid, who, when found fault with for having omitted to do any thing, her constant reply was, "I was just going to do it." The priest, to try how far she would carry her excuses, asked her, why she had not washed his books and papers?"Lord, sir,” replied she, “I was just going to do it." (A loud laugh.) In this they (the late ministers) seemed to have resembled duke Wharton's puppies, who never opened their eyes till they were in the act of drowning. The Parish bill was to aid the ordinary recruiting; but in this it followed the French example, and

to a certain class of unhappy people, who always reason right from wrong principles. (A laugh.)-I am perfectly willing to pay every tribute to the eloquence of the noble lord, and his right hon. friend. I cannot, however, but deeply lament, that it should, at such a moment, be employed in obstructing that unanimity so essential to the interests of the country, and which gentlemen themselves profess to have so much at

riod in the annals of our history, when unanimity was so imperiously demanded: for a nation, no more than a house, divided against itself, can long stand. But I am not so romantic as to suppose that political hostility shall be for ever buried in oblivion. I had only hoped it would have been allowed to sleep, till the great object of national security was perfect and complete. I am aware, sir, that in a free country like this, an opposition is a wholesome check upon ministers: if so, the greater the talents in opposition, the more effectual the check. Now, as every man must admit the present opposition to possess great talents, it follows, as a natural corollary, that, the longer the present gen

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tlemen remain in that state, the better for the prime minister of France, gave a facitheir country. (A laugh.) But, to give them lity in his case, that would not have applied greater weight, I would humbly recom- to other ministers, however capable. Thus mend they should adopt the words, as commenced the negociation; in its whole they have done the arguments, of M. Tal-progress, it was conducted, on the part of leyrand, and make them serve as a proe- England, in the true spirit of peace, and mium to their speeches against the treasu- with a sincerity which has always characry bench" nous ne vous demandons terized this country. Its rupture was ocrien;" in plain English, we seek for no-casioned by the duplicity of a government, thing that you possess." (A laugh.) The whose fidelity to its engagements is mea noble lord alluded to the negociation, sured by no other standard than that of which I am the more surprised at, after the its own immediate interest. If gentlemen unanimous vote of the house, approving of were serious in their professions of unani. the measures that had been taken to up- mity, here was a favourable opportunity to hold the character of the country in that display it; for it was not a question of transaction. The proposition originated party, but one between France and Enwith France-the negociation commenced gland, to be tried at the tribunal of the under auspices the most propitious. At nations of the world; and it was essential the head of the foreign department was to the character of the country, that that minister (Mr. Fox) whose loss the its good faith should stand contrasted to nation so justly deplores-a man who, public view, with the chicane and subamid the endowments of a mighty mind, tilty of its wily opponent. Whatever difwas peculiarly gifted with those qualities ferences of opinion may prevail in this which fitted him for negociation in difficult house, upon the various topics generally times. To a vast, comprehensive, and brought before it, there are two points cultivated understanding, he joined the upon which I cannot anticipate much dimost intimate knowledge of the various versity of sentiment; the one, the ininterests of Europe, a suavity of mammer, creased danger to which this country is and a spirit of conciliation, engaged fo- exposed by recent events upon the contireign ministers to treat, while his probity nent; the other, the necessity of meeting and known honour insured the confidence that danger with the spirit and energy of their masters. Devoid of guile, he had befitting a brave people, determined to be nothing equivocal in his conduct-nothing free. With respect to the danger, I believe ambiguous in his language. He moved there are few sceptics; but least of all can straight onward to his object, without they be found in the ranks of those who turning aside into the winding ways of composed the late administration; for if crooked policy or left-handed wisdom. the alarm they spread throughout the land, There was nothing counterfeit in him was then well founded, in what a multiplied his affability flowed from the heart-bis ratio is the danger now increased? But if natural greatness required not the aid of any man doubt of the danger, let him look assumed arrogance to give him consequence; at the extent of coast from the Adriatic to he was too great to be haughty, too wise the Baltic; the immense population; the to be cunning. He was one of the few numerous well-disciplined and well-comstatesmen who knew the value of that manded armies; and let him consider, that adage, which, though homely, is true in all these resources are at the uncontrolled politics as in morals, that "honesty is the disposal of that man who has sworn upon best policy." Far be it from me to at- his altars eternal hatred to Britain. But I tempt his praise; it would require powers learn, that an idea prevails, that this coungigantic as his own to do him justice.try is secure as long as she preserves her su Were he living, I should be silent. I never periority at sea. No opinion more natureceived favours at his hand. I leave it ral to be formed; no opinion more dange to those who have, to treat his memory rous to be relied on. If this were true, lightly. I speak of him, as a man who then indeed might every man in the nation loves his country must do, whilst deplo- lay his head upon his pillow in perfect sering its brightest ornament. (Hear! hear !)curity. It is impossible to value more, If Mr. Fox were qualified for negociation highly, or to feel more proudly than I do, in general, circumstances rendered him the brilliant achievements of our gallant peculiarly so for that with France. His tars. I know, that when the fleets of character stood high on the continent, as France are met by those of England, vicat home; and a former acquaintance with tory is no longer doubtful; and that the

served men, in which, for the six months previous to the new measure, 147 men engaged for general service, while 334, engaged in the six months subsequent to his measure. The other is a still stronger case; for seven months prior to this change, only one man, out of a battalion of 400 men,

only question now asked by a British com- this measure of limiting the term of mander is, not, what is the force, but, service, would have no effect upon the where is the enemy -But knowing all this, minds of soldiers, or those likely to become I also know that the sea is wide, and that so. Now, I have in my hand, sir, two the elements are fickle and ministers papers that will shew the futility of an obmust be endowed with supernatural pow-servation so opposite to common reason. ers; they must "ride in the whirlwind, The one is the return of a battalion of reand direct the storm;" they must be able to tell the sea, "Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther; here shall thy proud waves be stayed." All this they must do, before I can trust the safety of my country merely to its superiority at sea. It is true, the ports of the enemy are blockaded; and, as it is affectedly expres-extended his services; but in the month sed, their fleets are hermetically sealed up, when the right hon. secretary's plan was As long as this blockade continues, and explained to the battalion, 264 immedithe seals remain unbroken, the country may ately turned out; thus polling, as it were be safe; but the same gale that forces our by acclamation, for his measure. (Hear! fleets to seek shelter in their own ports, hear!) These were good men, fit to be solgives free egress to those of the enemy to diers, capable of a military life, and not escape from theirs. What has been, may such as were received into the army, under be; none can forget that the expedition the Parish bill; for the recruits obtained under Hoche was prevented from landing under the right hon. secretary's measure in Ireland, solely by the interposition of a are not only superior in quantity, but bet-providential hurricane. Now, as I have ter in quality, than those furnished by that. not learned that ministers have laid in a notable bill. There has been a great difstock of spare hurricanes, or that they have ference in the desertions also, as a right entered into any commercial treaty with hon. gent. has observed. But perhaps it the old ladies at Lapland, who are said to is not quite correct to set down as deserttraflick in this article; I cannot conclude ers all those who received bounty under the country safe, merely because it is supe- the Parish bill, and were never heard of rior at sea. But in stating the danger, more for such fellows never joined, or trust none will imagine that I mean to create meant to join any corps, and therefore dismay or despondency. I know that if could not strictly be called deserters, but the danger is great, the spirit and resour-robbers; and I am not sure that it would ces of the nation are equal to meet it; but be quite incorrect to consider those as acI wish to alarm to vigilance, to excite to complices who held out such temptations caution; and to rouse into action, the to them. A great part of those, whom energies of the country, for the salvation of this bill collected, were, in fact, unfit for the country. But above all things, I am an-service; even where they were honest xious that we should not slumber under enough to shew a disposition to serve. the shade of false security, "lest in that How many of them have I seen, each bring sleep we meet death."-Having shewn a wife and six children! The old adage that government has not been able to re- says, that it requires 9 tailors to make a store the blessings of peace, and that the man: but 19 of the fellows I have alluded continuation of the war is inevitable; ha- to, would not make a soldier. They were ving stated the danger as it appears to really for the most part such as Falstaff me, and having pointed out the fallacy of would be ashamed to march through Corelying solely upon our naval strength, ventry. You would in fact imagine that splendid as its renown is, I now come to the they were raised by a general gaol delivery other arm of our national force, so essen- of the nation, and a discharge of all the pa tial in either of the supposed cases. The rish workhouses. It was, in short, taking excellence of our present army is acknow- a heavy load off the parishes, and transledged by every man in the nation, and it ferring it to the army. The force which lives in the recollection of the enemies of is entitled to our confidence, must have the our country: we are inferior to the habit, the shape, the character, the soul of enemy in numerical force alone. Bat an army. I lay it down as a proposition, to return to the plan of the right hon.incontrovertible as any theorem in EuIt has been remarked, tharclid, that whatever weapon the enemy as

secretary.

sails you with, he must be met by one of spirit, would have fair play. Besides, it is equal efficiency. If the enemy were to in- the species of force, in which we are the vade you with the trained bands of Paris, I most deficient and which is peculiarly apshould be content to meet him with the plicable to an inclosed country. But pertrained bands of London. But as he will haps I ought to apologise for speaking so come, if he can, with a regular disciplined much upon a military subject, because army, inflated on the one hand by recent those who are not military, speak most victories on the continent, and impelled learnedly upon it. Although, in other caon the other by the prospective plunder of ses, men seek to know the practice as well this country, he must be met by a regular as theory of a subject, before they vendisciplined army, prepared to conquer or to ture to advise upon it, at least it is but nadie. But by this allusion, although it natural that others should enquire, whether turally induces a reference to the volun- they have that knowledge, before their adteers, I would by no means be understood vice is taken. We generally conclude men to speak lightly of that meritorious body. to have some knowledge of their own proI admired, as much as any man, that bril-fession in the ordinary concerns of life. We liant effusion of national spirit and valour, don't send our watch to be mended by a which burst forth so nobly in the hour of shoemaker; unless, indeed, we inverted danger; and, I have no doubt, that the Horace's rule of " Omnis sapiens est sutor ;” manifestation of that spirit made a very pow-but even in that case, bis further directions erful impression on the enemy. It is not, should be observed, "Ne sutor ultra crepihowever, inconsistent with the respect and dam." (Hear! hear!) But I will not regard which I always entertained for those proceed farther upon this topic at present, gallant men, to express my disapprobation as other opportunities will occur for discusof the system under which they were ori-sing it. And now let me implore gentleginally organized and trained. A great men to recollect, that the eyes, not only of deal of unnecessary instruction and inap- this country, but of Europe, and of the propriate discipline was, at the outset, at- whole civilized world, are anxiously fixed tempted to be communicated to them. It upon the proceedings of the British sedid happen to me in America to meet with nate, as the last remaining prop of expiring a circumstance from which I derived much liberty. The hopes and destinies of Euuseful information on this head. About rope hang upon your decisions: then let it 150 recruits were sent out to the regiment not be said, that the imperial parliament, of which I was adjutant; I immediately forgetting the great objects of its dignified proceeded to have them taught, secundùm character, shall occupy itself with the little artem, eyes to the right, toes out, &c. But disputes of party politics, contending how I was interrupted in my course by the ma- to get this man in, or to get that man out jor, who was a very sensible, intelligent of the government, instead of employing man, and who told me, that "I began at all its energies to keep out the arch-enemy the wrong end." I accordingly changed of all legitimate governments. We are my course, and taught my men to manage engaged in no ordinary warfare: we conthe firelock. This was the major's advice, tend with no common enemy, unless, inwho thought it most necessary, particularly deed, the common enemy of mankind. He when time pressed, that the men should has sworn vengeance. Your sins are of a learn to fire at the enemy, and this proved nature he cannot forgive. You are loyal, to be wise, for in three weeks after they content, and free; you aggravate these arrived, these recruits had to meet the ene- crimes, you resolve to continue free. Your my. Now the volunteers ought to have punishment would be extirpation. been so instructed, for the invasion by the comes not for conquest only, neither would enemy was almost daily expected at the pillage satiate his wrath. Desolation and very time that a kind of discipline was destruction are his objects;-the Delenda commenced, which they could not learn Carthago he applies to you. The existence for months, and which was unnecessary of all you hold dear is at stake-property, even if they could. They would be ex-liberty, life. Be but unanimous-banish tremely useful as auxiliaries to our army, party dissentions, let every hand and heart if the enemy landed, particularly from the be joined in the common cause. Be but nature of the country, and their local vigilant-let him advance-be will be met knowledge, were they merely trained as by free men, determined to lose their liberlight troops; in which case, the physical ties but with their lives. (Loud cries of vers of the individual, and his patriotic hear! hear!)

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