principally to the addition to the establish- fit was desirable to reduce to the certainty ment of one new regiment of foot, the of estimate, every thing of which an ess 101st, which was the only one of the Irish timate could be formed. Of these offices, regiments, ordered to be raised some time that of the commander-in-chief amounted since, that had been completed. There to 7,5601. In addition to this, there was were also six garrison battalions, compo- the charge of the quarter-master-general's sed of the men raised under the Defence department; that of the adjutant-geneact, who had not volunteered for general ral, the inspector-general of recruits, the service. Gentlemen were aware that no army medical-board, the office of the further proceedings were to be had under judge-advocate-general, and the comptrolthe defence act after the last year. These ler of the army accounts, making altoge battalions were instituted to receive the ther 44,2221. The next increase arose men from the second battalions, who would from the arrangements adopted in the engage for home service only. There were last session, with respect to the out-penbesides teu veteran battalions, the corps sioners of Chelsea. The amount of this for garrison service in Canada, and the increase was considerable; it was 114,1717. corps called the royal African, part of The next estimate was one in which sevewhich was in Africa, and the other part in ral debates had taken place, the Volunteer the West Indies; and to the latter part of corps. The gentleman would, he was sure, which an addition of two companies was hear with pleasure, that under this head, made. There were also 11 companies of there was a saving of 248,000/. but for Sicilian troops attached to the regiments the circumstance of its having become neat present in Sicily, and commanded by cessary to keep the corps, in certain parts British officers. It was expected, natu- of Ireland, on permanent duty for four rally, that the raising of this force would months, instead of one, as had been calattach the natives of Sicily to the British culated. This prolongation of permanent standard, and that it would render their duty had caused a diminution of the saaid and their services available, in the best ving to the amount of 119,000l. There possible manner. There was an increase was another item which produced a deof the staff officers for foreign service, crease of charge in this department, though which had naturally arisen from the expe- not to the public; he meant the transfer ditions that had been sent out. There of the artillery of the German legion to the was an increase in the commissariat from ordnance department. The decrease pro, the same cause; and there was an addi- duced in the department of the secretary tional charge of 110,000l. for the increa-at war by this transfer, was 153,6587. sed pay and allowances voted in the last year. The total amount of the increase in all the items was 439.7321. The amount of decrease which was to be deducted, was composed of the 25th dragoons in India, and the royal waggon train reduced to 4 companies, and battalions of infantry; the reductions on which amounted altogether to 81,771. There was, besides, a saving of 30,000/. in the transport of troops from the Irish establishment. When the amount of these articles of decrease was deducted, there would remain a balance of increase of 241,5371. The next branch of the estimates was the Public Departments, in which there was an increase of 44,222/. Of this 40,000l. had arisen on account of the auditor of the exchequer, for exchequer bills, to make good a deficiency of 20,000l. from the last year, and the remainder for the current service. The charge of a number of offices had been taken from the extraordinaries of the army, and included in these estimates, on the principle that

There was one estimate of charge in the paper now before the house, which was entirely new. It was the Compassionate List, for which no actual provision had ever before been made by parliament. For several years it had rested upon an imaginary fund, savings upon the half-pay, which did not exist. It was now judged proper to state the exigency to parliament, and to require a distinct provision. It was impossible to confine the subject of this charge within a particular estimate. It was taken at 12,000l. If it should exceed that, the deficiency would be made good afterwards. The utmost that was given to any one person, was 201. a year. He would not detain the house with going further into the detail of the items, but would content himself with stating that be was ready to give the fullest information that any gentleman could require upon any point. The present estimates had been formed with the utmost attention to public economy, as would appear to every

gentleman on investigation. With a view next point was that of the volunteers, and to a better insight into this point, he it was matter of satisfaction to him to state, thought it would be better to separate the as he was sure it would be to every genconsideration of the additional pay and tleman in the house to hear, that all the allowances, and to compare the expences gloomy apprehensions that had been formed, of the last and the present year, as if and all the dire predictions that had been that addition had not in fact taken place. put forth of the whole dissolution of that The total amount of the estimates of the respectable body, in consequence of the last year, exclusive of the additional pay, reductions made in its expenditure in the was 13,936,3211. The total amount of last session, had been completely falsified the estimates of this year, exclusive of in the event. During the agitation of the the additional pay, was 13,710,9517. af-public mind, and of the volunteers, which fording a difference in favour of this year had been produced by misrepresentation of 225,3991. But there was a drawback and studious irritation, while the subject to be made from this saving, in consequence was under discussion, some symptoms of of certain charges which were withdrawn disinclination to further service might have from the war office, and provided for else-appeared. But ou better consideration, where, to the amount of 120,000l. On and better understanding, these ill-advised the whole view of the estimate, there was discontents subsided, and the same order, ground for congratulating the country on for the service of the country remained, an augmentation of the number of forces, without any material defalcation in point and a decrease of the expense of the esta- of numbers. By the papers on the table it blishment, of 150,000l. The additional appeared, that the diminution in the efexpenses upon the whole, inclusive of the fective strength of the volunteers was additional pay, were but 451,000l. On very inconsiderable. But he would state the full consideration of the estimates, he the amount of the establishment rather was of opinion the hon. gent. (Mr. John- than the effective, as that would afford the stone) who had the other night given no-fairest means of judging of the extent of the Lice of a charge against ministers, for operation of the late regulations. At the waste of the public money, would be very present moment, the apprehensions of inmach at a loss for any foundation in the vasion, that had called forth and stimumilitary departments. In 1806, when the lated the volunteers, had subsided, and present ministers had first come into office, some relaxation of activity may have arisen if they had proceeded according to the sys-in consequence; but there was no doubt tem before acted upon, without any refor-that this highly estimable description of the mation, the total charge would have public force would again display its chaamounted to no less than 14,800,000/. racteristic zeal and spirit, if a renewal of He did not meau to state that his majesty's the enemy's menaces should call for a similate ministers would have come to parlia-lar ardour and energy. (Hear! hear! from ment for that sum, but that they must the opposition bench.) The hon. gentlemen have asked for that sum according to the opposite seemed to triumph in this testiformer scale, unless certain reductions, of mony to the merit of the volunteers, as if which he was not aware, should have ta- it was a sort of inconsistency in his majesken place. Thus there would have been, ty's present servants. But the present miaccording to the old scale, an additional nisters had found fault, not with the vocharge of 640,0001. exclusive of the addi-lunteers themselves, but with the manner tional pay and allowances; but with the additional pay and allowances, of 800,000l. There were only two or three other points upon which he would have to claim the indulgence of that house. The general training he should leave to his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham) who had formed the plan, and to whose department it belong ed. He should, therefore, content him self with stating, that the returns had been made, and that every thing was ready for carrying it into execution, whenever his majesty's ministers should think fit. The

in which the hon. gentlemen opposite had organized them. Certainly the present ministers had never been guilty of uttering any charge so disrespectful, as that so pertinaciously upheld by the hon. gentlemen opposite, that the volunteers would disband themselves, in the event of any reduction of their pay or allowances. He was confident that the volunteers were still actufated by the same steady attachment to the cause of their country, and equally ready to expose their lives for its defence, though their pay was diminished. He thought

the proper way of judging this point was, sioned and non-commissioned officers in. to take the amount of the establishment, cluded, be employed in the United Kingwhich would best shew the numbers that dom of Great Britain and Ireland, from had disbanded themselves, from dissatis- the 25th of Dec. 1806, to the 24th of Dec. faction with the new arrangement. The 1807." On the question being put, whole number that had retired from this Lord Castlereagh rose. He said he had cause, was 11,486. The number that re-listened with great attention to the statemained on service was 363,400. The next ment of the right hon. gent., and though point was the alteration in the system of he did not mean to enter into the items, recruiting; a point which had been dis- he confessed, he certainly felt considerable cussed more than any other. The expla- difficulty in entering into this discussion, nation of what had taken place on this head from the circumstance of the estimates not belonged, more properly, perhaps, to a per-being printed, and still more from the want son much more able than he: but in con- of any distinct specification, as to a great sideration of the anxiety the house natu- part of the expence, that had arisen out of rally felt upon it, he thought it right to say the new measures adopted in the last session. something with respect to it here. It It was difficult to come prepared to state would be remembered by many gentlemen, an opinion generally upon a large branch that so long as 12 years ago, he had urged of the public expenditure, when a great the propriety of adopting a measure of this part of the expenditure of that branch rekind for the amelioration of the army. It mained wholly unexplained. He thought would be remembered also, that he never parliament was unnecessarily subjected to expected, from the adoption of it, any sud-this difficulty, and that a more full expladen effect, but rather a gradual ameliora- nation might have been afforded before the tion in the recruiting of the army, leading estimates were called for. He had ima finally to the most beneficial effects. He gined that when parliament was called towas of opinion that the measure, so far as it had now been tried, gave full appearance of the benefits he had anticipated, and he was satisfied that while it continued to be tried, it would be found more beneficial every year. It was no argument against the permanent benefit, that no rapid improvement had yet been felt. It was not till last October that the measure had been regularly carried into effect. Consequently there had not been a fair trial in the last -year. It would, perhaps, be taking too much credit to this measure to impute to it the whole of the improvement in the recruiting department that had taken place since October; but it was certain that it had been eminently successful in the two great objects of obtaining a greater number of men at a lower bounty. It had also been eminently successful in another great and beneficial point of view, the diminution of desertion. These great advantages were conspicuous in the short period of the last year, in which the new system had been acted upon; and if it had been tried in the other 8 months of the year, he was certain the beneficial effects of it would have been more conspicuous. These were the only topics he felt it his duty to notice. If any gentleman required further explanations, he would most readily give them. He concluded, with moving the first Resolution, "That 113,795 effective men, commis

gether at a period so unusual, and so inconsistent with the habits of the country, some measure connected with the paramount interests of the people must have been the motive. Nothing, however, had yet been submitted to parliament, but the ordinary routine business, except merely the négociation papers. And he was of opinion that the discussion of that subject, too, might better have been postponed till a period more congenial to the parliamentary practice of business, and more likely to be accompanied with a full attendance of members. Such a postponement would have suited a subject involving so materially the character and conduct of ministers, and the honour and interest of the country; and it would have been more becoming than the unnecessary precipitation with which the papers had been forced upon the consideration of parliament. The right hon. gent. who had opened this debate, was not in the immediate councils of his majesty; but he held a high and responsible situation, and ought, therefore, to be able to assign sufficient grounds for the manner in which he acted. In the last year, the right hon. gent. had brought forward the Army Estimates four times, instead of one, in order to allow time to mature the arrangements which were then under conteniplation. He wished to know why the same space might not be now al

lowed for the completion and elucidation | much fairness to arrogate credit for ecoof arrangement, and what occasion there nomy upon the comparative establishments, was for the present unexplained precipi- taken at different times, and under different tancy? There was on the notice book, an circumstances. Though the right hon. intimation from the right hon. gent. at the gent. was not in the cabinet, he ought to head of the admiralty, that he meant on be able to state fully the grounds of any Friday to move for 10,000 additional sea-vote he proposed. The right hon. gent. men. He did not suppose that he should ought to ground the vote, not on the estiresist the motion; but he thought it would mate, but on the effective. Upon refehave been better to complete the arrange- rence to the estimates, the gross number ment for the year before any yearly esti- of men was 334,180. From this was to mates were submitted, rather than to come be deducted the number of commissioned forward with an imperfect estimate in the and non-commissioned officers and prifirst instance, and a supplementary esti-vates, who amounted, in the proportion of mate after. He was sorry to see the house about one-eighth, to about 41,095, leaving called upon by the present proposition to 293,400. This was the estimate of estasanction by implication the new military blishment; but, looking to the effective, measures, the charges for which were in- there was a further deduction to be made cluded in the vote without any explanation for a deficiency of 37,000, which would as to their effect, or their distinct expence. reduce the actual force to 260,555. He He, for one, thought that system could not was always desirous to vote supplies to the possibly be persevered in. It was parti-full extent in which they could be made cularly improper to call on a new parlia-use of for the benefit of the country; but ment at the close of the Christmas holidays, he thought it too much to ask funds for when members were not in full attendance, 37,000 men, who were not in existence, to approve those measures, without a full nor likely to be so. If his majesty's minisexplanation of their effect, and a distinct ters could shew any probability that in any specification of the expence. This preci- part of the year these 37,000 men would pitancy was the less excusable, as there be in service, he would readily grant the would have been no difficulty to vote any vote; but, if there were no prospect of that, necessary sum on account, in order to though he held it to be the duty of the allow time to place the whole subject, in house to grant the fullest supplies that all its branches, fully under the view of could be made use of for the benefit of the the house. The right hon. gent. had made his country, he could not in any case think it statement with great candour; but he had, warrantable to grant a supply of this in his opinion, taken too narrow a view of amount, without any prospect that it would the subject; and much of the last part of be used. The total absence of ground for what the right hon. gent. had said, made the demand was enough to render it indishim sorry that the custom of building upon pensable with him to refuse the grant, howestablishments had been resorted to. The ever unwilling he was to do so. It was the effective force on foot should be looked to, duty of ministers to adopt measures caland then it would be to be considered whe-culated to carry the effective strength of ther ministers had an army adequate to the the army to the height at which it ought expence to which they put the country; to be; for in all the discussions this suband whether there was any reason to hope ject had undergone, in all the diversity of for a force sufficient to consume what par- opinions as to the means, this one prinliament was called upon to vote. This ciple, at least, was universally agreed upon, boasted national saving of 240,000l., always that the effective strength of the regular excepting the new expenditure, was an army ought to be carried considerably beeconomy upon establishment alone, and yond its present amount. Nothing had not upon the effective force serving against occurred since the agitation of military the enemy. He should be extremely glad subjects in that house, in March last, to into see in his majesty's ministers any indi-duce any wish to diminish the force of the cations of vigour which would justify him country. If our operations could not be in looking forward to the efficient expen-directed towards the Continent, our troops diture of a great part of their supplies, might be employed in maritime attacks. which could not possibly be expended in It was true, that in March last the French the present state of the army. He was armies were on the borders of Hungary, and that now they were on the banks of 21

sure the right hon. gent. opposite had too VOL. VIII.

the Vistula; but this was not a circum-tration, and in that of lord Sidmouth, had stance which should lead us to be remiss said that those administrations should be in our exertions. If the internal security disgraced and degraded for the inefficiency of the country were a matter of concern to of their military measures. He had conthe right hon. gent. opposite, (and that tended that they should be successively right hon. gent. had formerly expressed displaced. For what?-To make room himself very gloomily on that subject,) for a government having his countenance, he wished him to consider in what situation and in whom the empire could repose with Great Britain might be placed, if the French confidence their trust of forming an army emperor, having obtained his object in Po-adequate to the interests of this country, land, was enabled, either by peace or by and the situation of Europe. What had war, to liberate his army from that coun- been the increase of our military strength? try. Prussia had been moved from the He would compare it with the right hon. military map of Europe. The power of gent.'s idea of the increase necessary; he the enemy would envelope us from the would compare the right hon. gent. with Baltic to the extremity of Europe. If, himself; he would compare his administherefore, at the period to which he had tration with the administrations that had alluded, the right hon. gent. agreed that incurred his pointed censures. Our effec. great exertions were necessary, every thing tive military strength, rank and file, on the that had since happened, every thing that 1st of March, 1805, (when the change of was now happening, should prompt him government took place,) was 248,782; (by to increase those exertions. To what had some error in the papers laid on the table, the late ministers pledged themselves on it was stated, at 249,627; but the former this subject? Not merely to a general aug- was the correct number;) on the 1st of mentation of our military strength; they January, 1806, our effective military had specifically stated the manner in which strength, rank and file, was 254,665, being that strength should be effectually in- an increase of about 5000. Our regular creased. When he had himself declared army at the former period was 173,600; it necessary (at the time when he had the ho- at the latter period, 178,500, being an innour of a seat on the opposite bench) to add crease of between 4 and 5 thousand. Now, 20 or 25 thousand men to our army,the right if this increase were compared with the hon. gent. rau before him on that subject. impressions which his majesty's ministers And when that right hon. gent. came into had declared that they felt of the necessity power, his determination appeared to keep of a considerable augmentation, it would pace with his former opinion, and he ex- evince a most miserable failure; but, on pressed his sanguine expectations of ob- looking at the recruiting account, the subtaining an army, great as the important ject would appear in a still worse light. crisis in which we were now placed, de-It would be seen that, between January manded. The late right hon. secretary for and June 1806, 5,834 men had been raised the war department, had also gone so far by the operation of Mr. Pitt's bill, the as to express indignation at the limits Additioual Defence act; 3,600 had been which he (lord Castlereagh) had proposed raised by it between the 1st of March and to set to the augmentation, and spurned the 24th of June, during the time when it the idea of any bounds to it. He had was languishing and dying away under the called on the country to rouse from the threats of destruction announced against it slumber in which it had so long been sunk, by his majesty's ministers. It was, neverand endeavour to regain its ancient mili-theless, evident that, but for the operation tary character. Under all these sanctions, of that bill, the actual state of the army he was justified in contending, that it was would not have been increased one man the general opinion that the national inte- since parliament last deliberated on the rests imperatively required a great aug-subject, and since the present government mentation of the army, and that no means came into power. Had it not been for should be left untried to accomplish this important object. The country had a right to expect the accomplishment of this object from his majesty's present ministers. Above all, they had a right to expect it from the right hon. secretary for the war department, who, both in the late adminis

this bill, and the recruiting from the Irish militia (which produced 3000 men), the right hon. gent. would have met parliament under the degraded and melancholy stigma not only of having neglected to increase our army, but of having suffered it to be wasted under circumstances which