« AnteriorContinuar »
formed to in every instance in which it (admitted to British Register, from the comcould be carried into effect, but was appre- mencement of the present war to the 5th hensive tbat it might not be possible to of January, 1807. act upon it in all.-Mr. H. Thornton pre- [NEUTRAL TRADE, BUENOS AYRES, sented a Petition from the directors of the &c.] Sir T. Turton seeing a noble lord Sierra Leone Company, praying for leave (Howick) in his place, rose for the purpose to bring in a bill for re-investing in his ma- of putting two or three questions to his jesty the possessions that had been granted lordship on certain points which appeared to that company, and to linsit the duration to him to require explanation. That noble of the company. The Speaker desired to lord, in his answer to a question from a be informed, whether the prayer of the pe- learned gent. (Mr. Perceval) on a former tition involved any application for a grant night, stated, that his majesty's ministers of public money? Mr. Thornton replied, had, in the treaty which they had concluthat it might be taken to have that effect, ded with America, reserved to themselves as the expences which the company had the right of protecting the trade of this heretofore been enabled to defray by an- country against the measures of tbe enemy: nual grants from parliameni, would here. If he understood the noble lord's answer after be to be defrayed by the government. right, it amounted to this, that his majesThe speaker then observed, that in any ty's ministers had reserved the right to act case of a direct application for public mo. for the protection of British trade, by the nęy, the house could not receive from any adoption of such measures towards neutrals, individual a petition, without the consent as they should submit to at the hands of of the crown; though, where the interests France. If he was correct in his interpreof his majesty were only indirectly con- tation of his lordship's answer, he wished to cerned, such consent might be signified in be informed whether, in the event of its any stage of the measure, which was to be being necessary to adopt more vigorous founded on the petition. The house was measures than were authorized by his matherefore not precluded from receiving this jesty's proclamation, there was any thing petition. The petition was then brought in the late treaty with America, which up, and referred to a select committee.- would prevent his majesty's ministers from Mr. Jacob observed, that an account had resorting to such measures? He was inbeen moved for, and ordered on a former duced to ask this question because of the day, of the number of ships engaged and opposition that had been stated to thins registered, in the British trade, and stated learned gent. for the production of a co-ally bis desire to move for another paper, that of his majesty's proclaination. Besides, was would be supplemental to that, and was would be desirable for the house to be me necessary in order to put the house in pos- formed upon this head, previous to the dege session of the wbole subject. The paper bate that was to take place on the learned is he proposed to move for, was, an Account gent.'s motion, and it was peculiarly nécesof the number of Britisiships that had sary to know whether his majesty's minisbeen captured by the enemy, and without ters could act with the vigour which cir. being re-captured, had been admitted again cumstances might require on account of to British Register. The practice was, to the artsul and insidious' understanding have such vessels taken into the enemy's which seemed to exist between the French ports, where they were sold to neutrals, and American governments. He wished and afterwards were allowed to be replaced to know whether they could adopt meaon the British Register. This practice he sures for the blockade of the ports of the contended amounted to a premium to the enemy in the West Indies? The second enemy for the capture of British vessels, question was relative to a late issue of as the neutral would not give half the price money to the continent. It was polorious for the ships. if he had not the power of to every person, that an issue of money, placing them again on the British Register. 1o the amount of 3 or 400,0001. bad been Lord H. Petty was not aware of any par- transmitted to the continent; and he wished ticular objection to the motion, as a paper to ask the noble lord upon wbat vote of of a similar description was already on the that house such money had been issued. table. It was then ordered, that there be The last subject upon which he wished for laid before the house an Account of the information was one which had greatly aginumber of British ships taptured by the tated the public mind for the last three or a enemy, and afterwards without re-capture, four days, he meant the situation of BuenoVol. VIII.
Ayres. He wished to ask whether his ma-f money to the continent, he could answer jesty's ministers were in possession of any the question of the hon. buronet, that it real information respecting the actual state was ibe balance due to the court of Russia, of that colony? He did not see the right under the provisions of a treaty then upon hon. gent. (Mr. T. Grenville) in his place, the table of the house. As to the last to whom this question ought particularly question of the bon. baronet, which, the to be addressed, as relating principally to hon. baronet himself had admitted, would his department. He trusted, however, it more properly bave been addressed to a would not be imputed to him as any want right hon. friend of bis, not then in the of fairness, if he put the question in that house, all be had to say upon that subject right hon. gent.'s absence. The hon. baro- was, that the letters, which had been renet here began to comment with some se-ceived concerning it, had already been verity on the letter that had been sent to conimunicated to the public. He was lot the mansion house, on Saturday, when he aware of any other information on the sub was interrupted by a generalery of “order ! ject, which his majesty's ministers thought order!” and concluded by apologizing for necessary to be produced to the public, any irregularity he might have fallen into, Sir T. Turton thanked tbe noble lord for and requesting to know whether ministers the manliness and càndout of his answers, had
any real information on the subject ? He wished only to know, whether bis maLord Howick, in answer to the explana- jesty's ministers had actually reserved the tion desired by the hon. baronet, of his right of adopting more vigorous measures; answer to a question of a learned gent. on because the answer of the noble lord on a former night, had only to reštate what the foriner occasion, had been variously he had said on that occasion. The treaty stated to him. As to the issue of the mowith America would not prevent bis ma- ney, be wished to be informed on wbat parjesty from resorting to such measures forticular ground that measure had been distressing the trade of the enemy, as neu-founded? He now perceived that it was Irals should submit to on the part of the founded on the treaty of 1805, wbich was French government. Whether this was no longer in force., and as this did not provided for in the late treaty, or other seem satisfactory to him, he proposed, on wise, it was not for him then to state. The' some future day, to subunit a aution to house would be aware that this was not the house on the subject. the time for the publicaticn, or discussion Lord Howick desired it might be dis
the terms of a treaty, which was still tinctly understood that the money sent was bject to eventual ratification. This was only the balance due to Russia for services Il be thought necessary in answer to that performed under the stipulations of that
of the hon. barovet's enquiry : but he treaty. could not pass by without an observation Mr. Perceral die not mean to prolong ou the extraordinary ground upon which he this conversation, but as his notice bad had thought proper to found his question, been adverted to in the course of it, be namely, that the house should be put in took that opportunity of mtimating bis inpossession of the express stipulations of the tention, in consequence of the unavoidable treaty with America on this head, prepa- absence of an bon. friend, to pnt off his ratory to the discussion of the motion of motion, from the Thursday for which it the learned gent. opposite (Mr. Perceval), was then fixed, to the Tuesday following.
To a question put on such a ground be the learned gent. at the same time discould not be bound to make any answer, clainied any wish to force the terms of the because he would not be justified in any treaty with Anerita into preinature dispremature disclosure of terms of that trealy: cussion. with regard to the right of blockade, that was a general right resulting from a state
HOUSE OF LORDS. of war, and which his majesty's ininisters
Wednesday, January 21. could not be supposed to bave given up; (SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL The exercise of that right, however, must Lord Grenville said, that finding it would be in a great degree left to their discretion, better suit the convenience of many noble and he trusted the house would not 'in-lords to have the discussion on the bill for terfere, until they should seestrong grounds abolisbing the Slave Trade postponed, he of suspicion that such discretion had been rose for the purpose of moving to defer the abuserl, With Jespect to the issue of second reading of the bill till Monday
se'nnight. He confessed it was with great of the day for hearing this petition be disreluctance that he consented to postpone charged, and proposed that the 17th of a measure of such great importance, and March be the day fixed upon for that pura which demanded an early discussion. It pose, as much more convenient to the parwas, however, af importance that the ty petitioning. consideration of this measure should be so Mr. W. Dundas thought, that such a fixed as to enable as many of the noble motion not being a motion of course, some lords as possible to attend the discussion, reason should be specified to induce the and therefore he moved to defer the se- house to do that which, upon mere gene. cond reading till Manday se'nnight. ral grounds, it seemed averse to do. He,
The Earl of Westmoreland rose to thank for his part, was such an eneiny to any the noble lord for the proposed delay. He teazing procrastination in the case of elecwas, however, of opinion, that the extended tion petitious, that he should feel it bis time new proposed, was no more than suf- duty to vote against the motion of the hon. fieient to allow the bill to be properly general, unless it appeared to him to be kuown and considered throughout the grounded upon substantial reasons. The country. The noble lord then moved for hon. general had stated merely, that if his an address to his majesty, praying that motion was not agreed to, it would be there might be laid before the house co-productive of inconvenience to the pelis pies or extracts of any correspondence tioning party. This might be true, but it between his majesty's principal secretary of was, notwithstanding, too loose and gene state, and the gavernors of the colonies, ral a statement to warrant the extraordinarespecting the amelioration of the condi- ry indulgence now called for. tion of the slaves, and the effect of the abo. General Walpole said that when a simi. lition of the trade in slaves in the colo- lar indulgence was clainied for the Abernies. Information on these points had deen petition, the hon. gent. did not seem Aot, he abserved, been laid before that to think this indulgence so extraordinary, house for several years, and he thought it nor did he in that instance at least appear of importance that they should be put in such an enemy to delay as he now profes. possession of information upon these sub- sed himself to be. And yet with respect jects, previous to the discussion upon the to the two cases, they were entirely anabill for abolishing the slave trade. logous, except in one or two points, wliich
Lord Grenville said be had no objection gave that of the Londonderry petitiofns to the motion, although he doubted whether stronger claim upon the indulgence of tłally the production of these papers would af-house. Both places were precisely was ford so many proofs of zeal in the colonies, saine distance, with this difference, andımwith respect to the objects comprised in material one it was, the great uncertainage the motion, as the noble lord seemed to of passage. His own repeated experiences expect. The motion was agreed to. had enabled him to state, that the commui
nication between the two countries as to HOUSE OF COMMONS.
the county in question, had often not been Wednesday, January 21. effected within less than a fortnight, and to [MINUTES.} A new writ was issued his own personal knowledge, once did not for a burgess to serve for Coleraine, in the take place within less than 3 weeks. He room of sir G. F. Hill, who bad made his moved, therefore, for the delay, in order election for Londonderry.The deputy that sufficient time might be allowed for clerk of the crown attended, pursuant to the necessary exchange of communications order, and erased the names of lord Fitz. between this country and Ireland. harris and lord Palmerston, who were re- Mr. W. Dundas replied, that six weeks turned with Mr. L. P. Jones and colonel had already elapsed since the petition had Wilder to serve for the borough of Hor- been presented, and that in that time the sham.--Sir J. Newport brought in the bill necessary communication inight have been to amend the Corn Intercourse act, passed made. last session, by not extending the provin Sir J. Newport apologised for trespassing sion of the former act to any grain not upon the house, but as he bad been as yet the growth of Great Britain and Ireland. the only member who had travelled through The bill was read a first time.
the fiery ordeal of an Irish ele`tion peti. (LONDON DERRY ELECTION Petition.] tion, the subject was too jati resting for General Walpole moved that the order him to let pass without some oi servation.
He begged leave to assure the house of the Perceval). Six weeks could not possibly indispensable necessity of an Irish agent have elapsed since tue presenting of the being brought over here, and that even petition in question, as the election to this step, simple as it might appear, was, which it related was one of the latest in he could state from experience, productive Ireland; at the same time he would say, that of great trouble and considerable delay; however eatitled the circumstance of the besides, it was not one simple communica- present case was to the indulgence of that tion that might be necessary, but perhaps house, still he was aware that gentlemen more, as, it some errors accompanied the should be cautious in establishing a precefirst here, this first should be sent back dent that might in other cases de produce again, and thus the delay of transmission tive of inconvenient operations. From the might be very reasonably expected. The couuection subsisting between the party bouse had granted a further day in the petitioning and himself, his lordship said case of the Aberdeen petition, and for his he was unwilling to go into the merits of part he thought that there were twenly cimes the question, satisfied that the house the grounds for granting a like indulgence would wisely exercise its own discretion, in the present case.
and that if the circumstances were suffi· Mr. W. Dundas, in explanation, begged ciently strong to justify the present moleave to remind the house, that the Aber- tion, that motion would be acceded to. deen case was in two material points dis- Mr. Rose said, that the return was gi. tinct from that now before the house ; ven in in the first week of December, and the peculiar circumstance of the Scotch contended that, at the time, the party petibaronet, and the agreement of both the tioning must have been aware of all the parties in their joint wish for a more dis- consequent delay a petition would be tant day.
ductive of, and the term of time the preMr. Perceral objected to the principle paratory business would necessarily require. laid down by an hon. gent., that the sit- Mr. C. Wynne maintained, that it was ting member allowed to enjoy the privilege impossible for a party petitioning to be apo of a seat in that house, had no reason to prised of all the circumstances at the close complain of delay upon the part of the of the election, and that it was upon this petitioners, because that such a prin- principle that parliament granted 14 days siple might be readily applied to all froin the first day of their sitting to all zlection petitions, and therefore could not persons petitioning. He thought that in ata, advanced as peculiar claim upon a pe- general, Irish petitions, with respect to the
Miar indulgence; and because that even grant of a distant day, had peculiar claims reagimitting it, suspense was not of all states upon the indulgence of the house. posle mnost enviable ; nor did he at all think Lord G. Beresford said, that he did not tift unreasonable that the sitting nember receive notice of this petition till the 3d of should wish that his suspense should be put January, and yet that since that day le as short a period to as possible, as it was had been able to effect such communicavery natural for any man in that house to lion with Ireland, that he professed hiniself feel himself more comfortable in the pos- ready at that moment to go before the com. session of his seat in parliament, whien all mittee.- The bouse then divided upon the doubts as to the permanency of that pos- motion of general Walpole, that the order session was removed. As to the argu- of the day for hearing the said petition be ment of delay upon the grounds of neces- discharged. Ayes, 67 ; noes, 49. The pesary, communications, and bringing over tion was then ordered to be taken into conIrish agents, it had not been alleged that sideration on the 17th of March. such delay was not foreseen, and if it was [ARMY ESTIMATES.] Lord Castlereagh, foreseen, there was certainly sufficient iime before the order of the day should be proto provide against it, as six weeks had ceeded upon, wished for some explanation elapsed since the petition had been pre on a point very material to the discussion. sented.
The right hon. secretary opposite, on openGeneral (l'alpole answered, that the de-ing his military plan last year, had stated, lay that had hitherto occurred, was owing that it was not intended to apply to the to the absence of the petitioner in Ire- men then serving, the system of discharges land,
at the end of 7 and 14 years; but that the Lord Howick begged leave to correct wen who were entitled by having served the stateruent of the learne gent. (Mr. so long, were to have the increased
proportion of pay and allowance. In a sub-1 9. Clothing for ditto
i 157227 16 4 sequeat discussion the right hon. gentleman 10. Full Pay to Supernuhad stated, that it was intended to dis
merary Officers ..
34418 11 0 11. Public Departments
291200 18 5 charge the men who had served 21 years, 12. Allowance to lanwith tull pensions. He wished. to know
467273 3 11 whether this intention had been carried in- 13. Hali Pay and Milito effect? Whether the men who had ser- 14. Ditto
192515 2 11
American ved 21 years were discharged, or still re- Forces.
44000 0 0 tained in service ; if they were retained | 15. Ditto Scotch Briin service, wbether it was voluntary; and
750 00 if it was voluntary, whether they had the
16. In - Pensioners of
Chelsea and Kilincreased advantages of pay and allowan- mainham Hospitals
50597 199 ces; and also, if they had been discharged, 17. Out-Pensioners of whether they had the full pensions?
355785 7 & Mr. Secretary Windkan said, it had
18. Widows' Pensions
43258 7 6 been in contemplation at the period allu- 20. Foreign Corps
19. Volunteer Corps .
21473 832540 19 9 ded to by the noble lord, to discharge with 21. Royal Military Cole full pensions the men who had served 21 lege.
22175 5 10 years. His owa opiniou as to the propri- 22. Royal Military Asy
*21227 84 ety of that proceeding was still the same. 23. Allowances to RetiBut it was a point that rested with the dis- red and Officiating cretion of his majesty's government gene
18208 15 1? rally; and which had not yet been deci- 24. Hospital Expences
18461 10 10 ded upon. The men who had served that 25. Barrack Departperiod of time had not demanded their disa inent (ditto.)
469450 12 6 charges, they of course remained still in the 26. Compassionate List.
12000 0 0 service, baving all the advantages of pay
334180 14713348 12 4 aad, allowances which the vote of last ses
Deduct the India sion granted.
25115 582397 0 Un che motion of the secretary at war, the house went into a conimittee of supply,
TOTAL. 309065 14160951 124 to which were referred the Army Estimates, In the multiplicity of services comprepresented by him, on the 14th instant, and hended in the estimates, some variations the Estimates of the Barrack Department, in the charges must of course occasionally and the commissariat, presented by Mr. Joccur. But the variation upon the whole was Vansittart on the 14th inst.
small. The difference was, in point of numThe Secretary at War said, that as the ber of men, 5284, and in point of charge estimates he had to move were, with very 9,1761. There was thus an excess in this few exceptions, made conformable to those year, but still there was a nearer coinciof the last year, it would not be necessary dence than in any other two years. It was for him to trespass upon the house, at auy only where the variation was consideraconsiderable length. The estimates now ble, that he should take any particular before the committee, were classed under notice of it, leaving the less material 26 heads; namely,
points to be explained afterwards. If any NUMBER. CHARGL. gentlemen should wish for particular-in
formation about them. The scale of the : 1. Guards, Garrisons,
establishment was nearly the same as in the &c.
113795 4051623 0 6 last year, being at the rate of sou men a 2. Forces in the Plantations, Sc. 79158 2609143 13
regiment for cavalry; and of battalions of 3. India Forces. 25115 582397 0 0 1200 men, 1000, 800, 600, or 400, for 4. Troops and Compa
the infautry, according to the actual strength nies for recruiting,
of the corps, as nearly as it could be estis ditto 437' 25214 10 0
mated. He should consider the two first 3. Recruiting and Contingencies.
227249 0 10 estimates, that of Guards and Garrisons, 6. General and Staff
and that of the plantations together, as Officers
190529 17.6 comprising the whole of the regular army 7. Embodied Militia and
at home and abroad. On this item there Fencible Infantry 94202 2+93644 7 5 8. Contingencies for dit.
was an increase of 2+1,5371. This was a 62153 17 0 Considerable increase, but it was owing