formed to in every instance in which it admitted to British Register, from the com-
could be carried into effect, but was appre-mencement of the present war to the 5th
hensive that it might not be possible to of January, 1807.
act upon it in all.-Mr. H. Thornton pre- [NEUTRAL TRADE, BUENOS AYRES,
sented a Petition from the directors of the &c.] Sir T. Turton seeing a noble lord
Sierra Leone Company, praying for leave (Howick) in his place, rose for the purpose
to bring in a bill for re-investing in his ma- of putting two or three questions to his
jesty the possessions that had been granted lordship on certain points which appeared
to that company, and to limit the duration to him to require explanation. That noble
of the company. The Speaker desired to lord, in his answer to a question from a
be informed, whether the prayer of the pe-learned gent. (Mr. Perceval) on a former
tition involved any application for a grant night, stated, that his majesty's ministers
of public money? Mr. Thornton replied, had, in the treaty which they had conclu-
that it might be taken to have that effect, ded with America, reserved to themselves
as the expences which the company had the right of protecting the trade of this
heretofore been enabled to defray by an-country against the measures of the enemy.
nual grants from parliament, would here- If he understood the noble lord's answer
after be to be defrayed by the government.
The speaker then observed, that in any
case of a direct application for public mo.
ney, the house could not receive from any
individual a petition, without the consent
of the crown; though, where the interests
of his majesty were only indirectly con-
cerned, such consent might be signified in
any stage of the measure, which was to be
founded on the petition. The house was
therefore not precluded from receiving this
petition. The petition was then brought
up, and referred to a select committee.
Mr. Jacob observed, that an account had
been moved for, and ordered on a former
-day, of the number of ships engaged and
registered, in the British trade, and stated
his desire to move for another paper, that
would be supplemental to that, and was
necessary in order to put the house in pos-
session of the whole subject. The paper
he proposed to move for, was, an Account
of the number of British ships that had
-been captured by the enemy, and without
being re-captured, had been admitted again
to British Register. The practice was, to
have such vessels taken into the enemy's
ports, where they were sold to neutrals,
and afterwards were allowed to be replaced
on the British Register. This practice he
contended amounted to a premium to the
enemy for the capture of British vessels,
as the neutral would not give half the price
for the ships if he had not the power of
placing them again on the British Register,
Lord H. Petty was not aware of any par-
ticular objection to the motion, as a paper
of a similar description was already on the
table. It was then ordered, that there be
laid before the house au Account of the
number of British ships captured by the
enemy, and afterwards without re-capture,
VOL. VIII.

right, it amounted to this, that his majes-
ty's ministers had reserved the right to act
for the protection of British trade, by the
adoption of such measures towards neutrals,
as they should submit to at the hands of
France. If he was correct in his interpre
tation of his lordship's answer, he wished to
be informed whether, in the event of its
being necessary to adopt more vigorous
measures than were authorized by his ma-
jesty's proclamation, there was any thing
in the late treaty with America, which
would prevent his majesty's ministers from
resorting to such measures? He was in-
duced to ask this question because of the
opposition that had been stated to thins
learned gent. for the production of a coally
of his majesty's proclamnation. Besides, was
would be desirable for the house to be im-
formed upon this head, previous to the dege
bate that was to take place on the learned is
gent.'s motion, and it was peculiarly neces-
sary to know whether his majesty's minis-
ters could act with the vigour which cir-
cumstances might require on account of
the artful and insidious understanding
which seemed to exist between the French
and American governments. He wished
to know whether they could adopt mea-
sures for the blockade of the ports of the
enemy in the West Indies? The second
question was relative to a late issue of
money to the continent. It was notorious
to every person, that an issue of money,
to the amount of 3 or 400,000. had been
transmitted to the continent; and he wished
to ask the noble lord upon what vote of
that house such money had been issued.
The last subject upon which he wished for
information was one which had greatly agi-
tated the public mind for the last three or
four days, he meant the situation of Buenos
2 11

Sir T. Turton thanked the noble lord for the manliness and candour of his answers, He wished only to know, whether his ma

right of adopting more vigorous measures; because the answer of the noble lord on the former occasion, had been variously stated to him. As to the issue of the money, he wished to be informed on what particular ground that measure had been

Ayres. He wished to ask whether his ma- money to the continent, he could answer jesty's ministers were in possession of any the question of the hon. baronet, that it real information respecting the actual state was the balance due to the court of Russia, of that colony? He did not see the right under the provisions of a treaty then upon hon. gent. (Mr. T. Grenville) in his place, the table of the house. As to the last to whom this question ought particularly question of the hon. baronet, which, the to be addressed, as relating principally to hon. baronet himself had admitted, would his department. He trusted, however, it more properly have been addressed to a would not be imputed to him as any want right hon. friend of his, not then in the of fairness, if he put the question in that house, all he had to say upon that subject right hon. gent.'s absence. The hon. baro-was, that the letters, which had been re❤ net here began to comment with some se-ceived concerning it, had already been verity on the letter that had been sent to communicated to the public. He was not the mansion house, on Saturday, when he aware of any other information on the subr was interrupted by a general cry of "order!ject, which his majesty's ministers thought order!" and concluded by apologizing for necessary to be produced to the public. any irregularity he might have fallen into, and requesting to know whether ministers had any real information on the subject? Lord Howick, in answer to the explana-jesty's ministers had actually reserved the tion desired by the hon. baronet, of his answer to a question of a learned gent. on a former night, had only to restate what he had said on that occasion. The treaty with America would not prevent his majesty from resorting to such measures for distressing the trade of the enemy, as neu-founded? He now perceived that it was trals should submit to on the part of the French government. Whether this was provided for in the late treaty, or other wise, it was not for him then to state. The house would be aware that this was not the time for the publication, or discussion the terms of a treaty, which was still bject to eventual ratification. This was l be thought necessary in answer to that pos tipart of the hon. baronet's enquiry: but he could not pass by without an observation| on the extraordinary ground upon which he had thought proper to found his question, namely, that the house should be put in possession of the express stipulations of the treaty with America on this head, preparatory to the discussion of the motion of the learned gent. opposite (Mr. Perceval). To a question put on such a ground he could not be bound to make any answer, because he would not be justified in any premature disclosure of terms of that treaty: with regard to the right of blockade, that was a general right resulting from a state of war, and which his majesty's ministers Wednesday, January 21. could not be supposed to have given up, [SLAVE TRADE ABOLITION BILL The exercise of that right, however, must Lord Grenville said, that finding it would be in a great degree left to their discretion, better suit the convenience of many noble and he trusted the house would not in- lords to have the discussion on the bill for terfere, until they should see strong grounds abolishing the Slave Trade postponed, he of suspicion that such discretion had been rose for the purpose of moving to defer the abused, With respect to the issue of second reading of the bill till Monday

at a

N

founded on the treaty of 1805, which was no longer in force; and as this did not seem satisfactory to him, he proposed, on some future day, to submit a motion to the house on the subject.

Lord Howick desired it might be distinctly understood that the money sent was only the balance due to Russia for services performed under the stipulations of that treaty.

Mr. Perceval did not mean to prolong this conversation, but as his notice bad been adverted to in the course of it, be took that opportunity of intimating his intention, in consequence of the unavoidable absence of an hon. friend, to put off his motion, from the Thursday for which it was then fixed, to the Tuesday following. The learned gent. at the same time disclaimed any wish to force the terms of the treaty with America into premature discussion.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

se'nnight. He confessed it was with great of the day for hearing this petition be disreluctance that he consented to postpone charged, and proposed that the 17th of a measure of such great importance, and March be the day fixed upon for that purwhich demanded an early discussion. It pose, as much more convenient to the parwas, however, of importance that the ty petitioning.

consideration of this measure should be so Mr. W. Dundas thought, that such a fixed as to enable as many of the noble motion not being a motion of course, some lords as possible to attend the discussion, reason should be specified to induce the and therefore he moved to defer the se-house to do that which, upon mere genecond reading till Monday se'nnight. ral grounds, it seemed averse to do. He, The Earl of Westmoreland rose to thank for his part, was such an enemy to any the noble lord for the proposed delay. He teazing procrastination in the case of elecwas, however, of opinion, that the extended tion petitions, that he should feel it his time now proposed, was no more than suf-duty to vote against the motion of the hon. ficient to allow the bill to be properly general, unless it appeared to him to be known and considered throughout the grounded upon substantial reasons. The country. The noble lord then moved for hon. general had stated merely, that if his an address to his majesty, praying that motion was not agreed to, it would be there might be laid before the house co-productive of inconvenience to the petipies or extracts of any correspondence tioning party. This might be true, but it between his majesty's principal secretary of was, notwithstanding, too loose and genestate, and the governors of the colonies, ral a statement to warrant the extraordinarespecting the amelioration of the condi-ry indulgence now called for. tion of the slaves, and the effect of the abo- General Walpole said that when a similition of the trade in slaves in the colo-lar indulgence was clained for the Abernies. Information on these points had deen petition, the hon. gent. did not seem not, he observed, been laid before that to think this indulgence so extraordinary, house for several years, and he thought it nor did he in that instance at least appear of importance that they should be put in such an enemy to delay as he now profespossession of information upon these sub-sed himself to be. And yet with respect jects, previous to the discussion upon the to the two cases, they were entirely anabill for abolishing the slave trade. logous, except in one or two points, which Lord Grenville said he had no objection gave that of the Londonderry petitions to the motion, although he doubted whether stronger claim upon the indulgence of thally the production of these papers would af-house. Both places were precisely was ford so many proofs of zeal in the colonies, satne distance, with this difference, and mwith respect to the objects comprised in material one it was, the great uncertainge the motion, as the noble lord seemed to of passage. His own repeated experiences expect. The motion was agreed to. had enabled him to state, that the commu nication between the two countries as to the county in question, had often not been effected within less than a fortnight, and to his own personal knowledge, once did not take place within less than 3 weeks. He moved, therefore, for the delay, in order that sufficient time might be allowed for the necessary exchange of communications between this country and Ireland.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, January 21. [MINUTES.] A new writ was issued for a burgess to serve for Coleraine, in the room of sir G. F. Hill, who had made his election for Londonderry. The deputy clerk of the crown attended, pursuant to order, and erased the names of lord Fitz. harris and lord Palmerston, who were returned with Mr. L. P. Jones and colonel Wilder to serve for the borough of Horsham. Sir J. Newport brought in the bill to amend the Corn Intercourse act, passed last session, by not extending the provi- Sir J. Newport apologised for trespassing sion of the former act to any grain not upon the house, but as he had been as yet the growth of Great Britain and Ireland. the only member who had travelled through The bill was read a first time. the fiery ordeal of an Irish election pet[LONDONDERRY ELECTION PETITION.]tion, the subject was too int resting for General Walpole moved that the order him to let pass without some of servation.

Mr. W. Dundas replied, that six weeks had already elapsed since the petition had been presented, and that in that time the necessary communication might have been made.

He begged leave to assure the house of the Perceval). Six weeks could not possibly indispensable necessity of an Irish agent have elapsed since tae presenting of the being brought over here, and that even petition in question, as the election to this step, simple as it might appear, was, which it related was one of the latest in he could state from experience, productive Ireland; at the same time he would say, that of great trouble and considerable delay; however entitled the circumstance of the besides, it was not one simple communica-present case was to the indulgence of that tion that might be necessary, but perhaps more, as, if some errors accompanied the first here, this first should be sent back again, and thus the delay of transmission might be very reasonably expected. The house had granted a further day in the case of the Aberdeen petition, and for his part he thought that there were twenty times the grounds for granting a like indulgence in the present case.

house, still he was aware that gentlemen should be cautious in establishing a precedent that might in other cases be productive of inconvenient operations. From the connection subsisting between the party petitioning and himself, his lordship said he was unwilling to go into the merits of the question, satisfied that the house would wisely exercise its own discretion, and that if the circumstances were suffiMr. W. Dundas, in explanation, begged ciently strong to justify the present moleave to remind the house, that the Aber- tion, that motion would be acceded to. deen case was in two material points dis- Mr. Rose said, that the return was gi tinct from that now before the house; ven in in the first week of December, and the peculiar circumstance of the Scotch contended that, at the time, the party petíbaronet, and the agreement of both the tioning must have been aware of all the parties in their joint wish for a more dis-consequent delay a petition would be protant day.

ductive of, and the term of time the preparatory business would necessarily require.

Mr. C. Wynne maintained, that it was impossible for a party petitioning to be apprised of all the circumstances at the close of the election, and that it was upon this principle that parliament granted 14 days from the first day of their sitting to all persons petitioning. He thought that in general, Irish petitions, with respect to the grant of a distant day, had peculiar claims upon the indulgence of the house.

Mr. Perceval objected to the principle laid down by an hon. gent., that the sitting member allowed to enjoy the privilege of a seat in that house, had no reason to complain of delay upon the part of the petitioners, because that such a prinsiple might be readily applied to all tection petitions, and therefore could not ata advanced as peculiar claim upon a peMai iar indulgence; and because that even reacmitting it, suspense was not of all states pose most enviable; nor did he at all think Lord G. Beresford said, that he did not tift unreasonable that the sitting member receive notice of this petition till the 3d of should wish that his suspense should be put January, and yet that since that day he as short a period to as possible, as it was had been able to effect such communicavery natural for any man in that house to tion with Ireland, that he professed himself feel himself more comfortable in the pos-ready at that moment to go before the comsession of his seat in parliament, when all doubts as to the permanency of that possession was removed. As to the argument of delay upon the grounds of necessary, communications, and bringing over Irish agents, it had not been alleged that such delay was not foreseen, and if it was [ARMY ESTIMATES.] Lord Castlereagh, foreseen, there was certainly sufficient time before the order of the day should be proto provide against it, as six weeks had ceeded upon, wished for some explanation elapsed since the petition had been pre- on a point very material to the discussion. sented. The right hon. secretary opposite, on openGeneral Walpole answered, that the de-ing his military plan last year, had stated, lay that had hitherto occurred, was owing to the absence of the petitioner in Ire

land,

Lord Howick begged leave to correct the statement of the learned gent. (Mr.

mittee.-The house then divided upon the motion of general Walpole, that the order of the day for hearing the said petition be discharged. Ayes, 67; noes, 49. The petion was then ordered to be taken into con sideration on the 17th of March.

that it was not intended to apply to the men then serving, the system of discharges at the end of 7 and 14 years; but that the men who were entitled by having served so long, were to have the increased

Full Pay to Supernu-
Public Departments
merary Officers.
Allowance to lan-
keepers, &c
Half Pay and Mili-

proportion of pay and allowance. In a sub-19. Clothing for ditto.
sequent discussion the right hon. gentleman 10.
had stated, that it was intended to dis-11.
charge the men who had served 21 years, 12.
with full pensions. He wished to know
whether this intention had been carried in-
to effect? Whether the men who had ser-
ved 21 years were discharged, or still re-
tained in service; if they were retained
in service, whether it was voluntary; and
if it was voluntary, whether they had the
increased advantages of pay and allowan-
ces; and also, if they had been discharged,
whether they had the full pensions?

Mr. Secretary Windham said, it had been in contemplation at the period alluded to by the noble lord, to discharge with full pensions the men who had served 21 years. His own opinion as to the propriety of that proceeding was still the same. But it was a point that rested with the discretion of his majesty's government generally; and which had not yet been decided upon. The men who had served that period of time had not demanded their discharges, they of course remained still in the service, having all the advantages of pay and allowances which the vote of last session granted.

On the motion of the secretary at war, the house went into a committee of supply, to which were referred the Army Estimates, presented by him, on the 14th instant, and the Estimates of the Barrack Department, and the commissariat, presented by Mr. Vansittart on the 14th inst.

The Secretary at War said, that as the estimates he had to move were, with very few exceptions, made conformable to those of the last year, it would not be necessary for him to trespass upon the house, at any considerable length. The estimates now before the committee were classed' under 26 heads; namely,

13.

tary Allowances

14.

Ditto

American

15.

Forces.

Ditto Scotch Bri-
gade.

16. In Pensioners of
Chelsea and Kil-
mainham Hospitals
17. Out-Pensioners of

ditto..

18. Widows' Pensions
19. Volunteer Corps.

20. Foreign Corps
21. Royal Military Col-
lege.

22. Royal Military Asy-
kum.

23.

24.

25.

Allowances to Reti

red and Officiating

Barrack Depart-
inent (ditto.).
26. Compassionate List.

469450 12 6 12000 0 0

334180 14743348 12 4

In the multiplicity of services compreheuded in the estimates, some variations in the charges must of course occasionally occur. But the variation upon the whole was small. The difference was, in point of number of men, 5284, and in point of charge 9,1761. There was thus an excess in this year, but still there was a nearer coincidence than in any other two years.. It was only where the variation was considerable, that he should take any particular notice of it, leaving the less material points to be explained afterwards. If any gentlemen should wish for particular information about them. The scale of the establishment was nearly the same as in the 6 last year, being at the rate of 800 men a regiment for cavalry; and of battalions of 1200 men, 1000, 800, 600, or 400, for the infantry, according to the actual strength of the corps, as nearly as it could be estimated. He should consider the two first estimates, that of Guards and Garrisons, and that of the plantations together, as comprising the whole of the regular army at home and abroad... On this item there was an increase of 241,537. This was a 62153 17 0 considerable increase, but it was owing