of, but the prejudice they were calculated the 5th of February; but, after a few reto cast on a contested election, on which marks from the speaker and lord H. Petty, the learned gent. himself might be called the hon. gent. withdrew his motion, aud to sit as a judge. The triumphal car the 3d of February was fixed for the consiand the procession which had excited the deration of this petition.-A petition from spleen of the learned gent., was, he would certain electors of Norfolk, in the interest venture to say, one of the most popular of Mr. Wodehouse, was laid on the table. triumphs that had ever been witnessed in This petition was read. It charged the canthis or in any other city. [A laugh.] didates who were returned, Messrs. Coke and Windham, with having been guilty of

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Lord Folkestone said, that he had not been aware of the circumstance with re-treating, &c. Ordered to be taken into spect to the circuit, and that it certainly consideration on the 5th of February. would be necessary to accommodate the Lord Howick, adverting to what he had counsel.—The motion was then agreed to. stated on a former day relative to the means of facilitating the progress of private bills, observed, that he had since consulted with those who were competent to form a correct opinion upon that subject, and that he should the next day move, that the house do make an order that, after fixing the time within which private petitions should be presented, the house should occupy itself until half after four o'clock each day in receiving the reports of private committees, and in forwarding private business.

[NAVY ESTIMATES.] Mr. T. Grenville moved, that the house should resolve itself into a committee of supply. Upon the speaker's leaving the chair, there was a general cry of " Mr. Hobhouse to the chair!" That hon. gent. accordingly took his seat at the table, and is therefore considered as chairman of the connittees of supply and ways and means.

Mr. T. Grenville (first lord of the admiralty) then rose. He said, that from the

Monday, December 29. [MINUTES.] Upon the motion of Mr. Swan, the consideration of the petition relative to the Penrhyn Election was discharged, and fixed for the 29th of January. The consideration of a petition from the hon. Wm. Ponsonby, relative to the county of Londonderry Election, was fixed for the same day.-Two petitions were presented complaining of the return for Horsham, and they were appointed for consideration upon the same day as that fixed for the petition already before the house respecting the said election.-A petition from Mr. T. Jones against the Return for Shrewsbury was laid upon the table; and upon the speaker's moving, that it should be considered on the first vacant day, namely, the 3d of February, Mr. Johnstone, understanding that further time was required for the accommodation of the parties to this petition, proposed situation which he now held, it became his the 14th of February. The speaker felt it his duty to submit to the consideration of the duty to observe, that the proposed post-committee the necessary Naval Supplies ponement would be a departure from the proposed to be granted to his majesty. general practice of the house in such ca- There being no particular circumstances ses; the earliest vacant day being uniform-in the Estimates which he deemed necessaly fixed upon in the first instance: and if ry to lay before the committee, that dif any farther postponement were afterwards fered from those of the preceding year, he required, it was generally the practice of did not deem it necessary to detain the the house to accede to it, upon special cause being assigned. Having stated the practice on such occasions, it was of course for the discretion of the house to determine upon the course to be pursued in this instance. Some conversation arose upon this point, in which lord Howick, lord H. Petty, and Mr. Bennet, one of the parties interested in the petition, took a part, and concurred in the propriety of the speaker's objections; Mr. Bennet observing, that the proposed delay would interfere with the assizes. Mr. Johnstone-then proposed

committee with any preliminary observations. He should confine himself entirely to stating, that what he had to propose to the house, as to the number of men to serve in his majesty's navy, and the expence attending them, was precisely the same as had been voted last year. But although he declined making any observations at present, he should of course avail himself of his right to reply to any remarks that might be offered upon this subject. The right hon. gent. concluded with moving the following resolutions, which were agreed

ing of the late elections for Plymouth, Maidstone, Dublin, and Chippenham, which were severally ordered to be taken into consideration on the following days: the Plymouth petition on the 5th of February; Maidstone and Dublin petitions on the 10th of February; and the Chippenham petition on the 12th of February, on which day a petition from several burgesses of Chippenham, was also ordered to be taken into consideration.

to; viz. 1. “That it is the opinion of this committee, that 120,000 men be employed for the sea service for the year 1807, including 29,000 royal marines. 2. That a sum, not exceeding 2,886,000l., be granted to his majesty, for wages of the said 120,000 meu for 13 months, at the rate of 17. 17s. per man per month. 3. That a sum, not exceeding 2,964,000l., be granted to his majesty, for victuals for the said 120,000 men for 13 months, at the rate of-The house went into a committee on the 11. 18s. per man per month. 4. That a sum, not exceeding 4,680,000l., be granted to his majesty, for the wear and tear of the ships in which the said 120,000 men are to serve, for 13 months, at the rate of 31. per man per month. 5. That a sum, not exceeding 390,000l., be granted to his ma-sons who had incurred penalties for regrajesty, for ordnance for sea service on board the ships in which the said 120,000 men are to serve, for 13 months, at the rate of 5s. per man per month."-The house then resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up the next day.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

act for regulating the Leather trade, and, on the motion of lord Temple, agreed to a resolution, that the chairman do ask leave to bring in a bill to repeal so much of the said act as prohibits the regrating of Oak Bark, and to indemnify certain per

ting oaken bark. Lord Temple stated, that the whole of the Tanning trade was carried on with bark purchased of persons who bought to sell again. This had been prohibited under a penalty by the act referred to the committee; but the act was never put in force; and it was not until last year that some informers had brought qui tam actions to recover the penalties incurred under the act, that it had been found necessary to repeal it. Last session, he had brought in an act to suspend the prosecutions, and as the business of the trade could not be carried on, without permitting the regrating of Oak Bark, he then proposed, that that part of the bill which prohibited this practice, should be repealed. The house then resumed, and Mr. Hobhouse, the chairman, obtained leave to bring in the bill.

Tuesday, December 30. [MINUTES.] Mr. Raine gave notice that he should, on Friday next, move for leave to bring in a bill to explain and amend two acts, the 2d of Richard II. and the 32d of Henry VIII. for the preventing of any man of law from acting as a justice of assize in his own county. These acts imposed a penalty of 1007. for every instance in which their provisions were departed from, and the object of the measure he meant to propose, would be to render their operation more effectual. Mr. Corry trusted that due care [DISTILLATION OF SUGAR.] Lord Temwould be taken to prevent the measure ple rose pursuant to notice, to move that from operating any change in the law as it a committee be appointed to consider of at present stands in that part of the united the possibility, and, if possible, of the prokingdom called Ireland, until it should be priety of permitting Sugar and Molasses ascertained that such change was desirable. to be used in Distilleries and Breweries. There existed several acts of the Irish In making this motion, it was not his inparliament upon this subject, to which he tention to pledge either himself or the begged leave to direct the attention of the house to the measure. He wished at prelearned gent. before he brought forward his sent only that a committee should be apmeasure. At any rate, he thought it would pointed to enquire into the subject, leabe desirable for the learned gent. to deferving it open to the house to take such prohis motion, until there should be an op-ceeding hereafter as the circumstances of portunity of consulting the Irish govern- the case should be found to require. In ment and law officers, how far the measure the present situation of affairs, the circumcould be applied to Ireland. After a stances of the continental nations must short conversation between Mr. Raine and necessarily bear hard on many branches of Mr. Corry, the former withdrew his no-commerce, but on none more heavily tice for the present, in order to allow time than upon our West-India trade. It was for obtaining every information on the sub-ascertained that there were at present in ject.-Petitions were presented, complain- the port of London alone, between 80 and

-

90,000 hogsheads of Sugar upon hand. measure to be brought forward, no predi The quantity in the same situation in the lection would be shewn for any one class of out-ports was proportionably great: so landed proprietors. The committee which that the Sugars on hand in the whole had sat last session, had thrown much light of England amounted to 150 or 160,000 upon the subject, and he trusted, therefore, hogsheads. This statement alone would be that the whole of the case would be atsufficient to convince the house of the tended to in the present instance. He had propriety of taking some measures for the thought it necessary to say thus much, in relief of so important a branch of the na-order that the house should not be consitional commerce. It might not be amiss dered as pledged to the measure, from the here to state, that it was not in contempla-circumstance of this early stage of the tion to submit any proposition for the in- business passing without any observation troduction of sugar and molasses into upon it.-The committee was appointed breweries and distilleries, to the exclusion accordingly. of grain. The object was to allow the use

[WOOLLEN TRADE.] Lord Temple, purof them upon principles of fair competi- suant to notice, begged leave to call the tion, not of exclusion. All the parties attention of the house to the state of the too, whose interests might be concerned, Woollen Manufacture of the country, and whether brewers, distillers, or others, would of the laws relating to that important subhave an opportunity of making out their ject. A committee had been appointed cases before the committee. Having premised thus much, the noble lord concluded by moving, "That a committee be appointed to consider of the expediency of permitting the use of Sugar and Molasses in the Distillery and Brewery, for a time to by some legislative measure, which might be limited, under the circumstances now affecting the trade of the British colonies in the West Indies; and to report the same, with their observations and opinions thereon, to the house."

Mr. Dent expressed an earnest wish, that this important subject should not be hastily decided upon, but that sufficient time should be afforded for a mature consideration of all the great interests connected with it.

last session to consider of the matter, and had taken a large mass of evidence upon every part of the case. It had been the intention of the gentlernen who promoted that enquiry, to follow up the investigation

provide some remedy for all the inconveniences resulting from the operation of the statutes then in existence. The dissolution of parliament, however, by precluding the house from instituting any proceeding upon a report of the committee of another parliament, had made it necessary to take up the business anew. The course he proposed to follow, therefore, was to move that the laws relating to the Woollen Manufactures be referred to a committee, and also the report of the committee of last session. Upon the report of this committee, the house would found the ulterior measure that was necessary for the interest of this important branch of our manufac tures.

Lord Temple was disposed to afford all the parties whose interests might be concerned, a full opportunity of being heard, and it was with that view that he had adopted the mode he had just proposed, of appointing a committee before From communications which he which all such parties might be heard. But had had with the parties most interested, from the circumstances he had stated, it he had the satisfaction to state that they would be obvious that some immediate re- did not propose to bring forward any fresh lief was necessary, and that his object evidence, but were prepared to rest upon would be defeated by any considerable the case they had made out last session. delay. He expected, therefore, that the question Mr. Baker hoped that those gentlemen would be brought to issue in the present who proposed to bring forward this mea-session. But whatever pleasure he should sure, would consider well what effect it feel in bringing it to a might have on the value of lands and the nation, he was not di̟ arned gad adinterests of agriculture in this country. hearing any further ev points he had endea He was aware that there might be many be thought essential. It wires. Tish that circumstances which would require of the all the parties interested should be fully legislature to attend particularly to particu- heard, if they had not felt that the case as lar branches of the property and trade of made out before the former committee was the country; but he did hope that, in the fully sufficieut.-The several laws relating

tory term

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di to the Woollen Manufactures, and the report of the committee of last session theretch on, were then, on the motion of lord Temtple, referred to a committee.

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it was very material that the whole of it should be produced. Another point on which he desired to be informed, was whether lord Yarmouth had received any communication from Mr. Fox, or from any of his majesty's ministers, previous to his first leaving France; also the date of that noble lord's communication with M. Talleyrand; together with the date of his leaving Paris, and of his arrival in London. The first communication from lord Yarmouth to

[NEGOCIATION WITH FRANCE.] Mr. Perceval rose for the purpose of putting had one or two questions to the noble lord opposite (lord Howick), on the subject of the papers then in the hands of the members the of the house, with a view to obtain inforhemation upon certain points, which appeared to him to require to be further elucidated. Mr. Secretary Fox certainly appeared dated He wished to put the questions to the noble the 13th of July, but he wished to know lord, because the answers he might receive, whether that was the date when the dismight perhaps render it unnecessary for patch was addressed to Mr. Fox, or when him to give any notice of a motion on the it was drawn up. The next point related subject, and it might also happen, that the to a statement in an official note presented noble lord, when informed of the points to by lord Lauderdale to gen. Clarke, dated which his enquiries were directed, might Aug. 6," that intervening circumstances, not have any objection to accede to such which it was unnecessary to detail, had enmotion as should be necessary, in order to abled his majesty to enter into a separate come at the information he required, in the treaty." Now, it did not appear upon the most satisfactory manner. He should, face of the Papers what these circumstances therefore, state the points on which he were, and he wished to be informed rethought information necessary, and be specting them. Another question he wishguided by the answers he should receive, ed to ask, grew out of a passage in the disas to the course he should ultimately adopt. patch of the 10th of September, from the The first point upon which he wished to be right hon. gent. opposite (Mr.Windham) to informed, related to an extraordinary in- lord Lauderdale. The passage was, " every terpolation, which appeared in the letter effort was made at the outset of the negofrom M. Talleyraud to Mr. Secretary Fox, ciation to obtain the restitution of Naples dated April 1, as published by the French to his Sicilian majesty." He wished to 7 government, when compared with the letter know what those efforts had been, and of the same date in the official papers on whether there were any documents to shew the table (p. 95.) He wished to know whe- that they had been made, and whether ther there had been a passage similar to there would be any objection to lay before that extraordinary interpolation in any the house the details of the reasons for deletter received by Mr. Fox from M. Fal-parting from that claim, as said in that disleyrand, and also whether any answer had been returned by Mr. Fox to that letter. The next object of the information he desired was the letter No. 3, from M. Tal leyrand, dated March 5, as it appeared in the papers before the house. This was evidently an extract from the letter received by Mr. Fox, and it struck him that it would be extremely desirable, previous to the discussion of the papers, that the house should be in possession of the whole of this document. Of this he was so convinced, that if the noble lord should not be prepared to use the document to the to know whether theel it his duty to make

remainder of ton the subject, reser ving his 13ns until he should come to make the motion. This letter, he was aware, was a private one; but as it had been made the channel of communication upon the relations of the two countries, VOL. VIII.

patch to be detailed in the correspondence of the foreign office, with lords Yarmouth and Lauderdale. The last question he had to put, related to the communication made by lord Lauderdale to M. Talleyrand, stating that he was authorized to negociate also for Russia on the same terms as had been communicated to M. Talleyrand by his excellency count Budberg. It did not appear on the face of the papers what these terms were; and on an occasion in which the house was to be called on to decide upon the merits of the negociation and the rupture of it, he felt that it was absolutely necessary that they should be put in pos. session of the terms upon which it was proposed to treat.

Lord Howick said, he was most willing to give every explanation on the subject of any part of the papers that were to be dis cussed on Monday, which might be thought R

have an opportunity of communicating with M. d'Oubril. As to the intervening circumstances, stated by lord Lauderdale, that enabled his majesty to enter into a separate negociation, the learned gent. must be aware, that M. d'Oubril had concluded a separate treaty on the 20th of July, and that such a circumstance released us from the obligation of not treating separately. Until it could be known whether it would or would not be ratified, it was to be considered the act of the Russian government, and we could not have had any moral cer

necessary for the perfect elucidation of that important subject. He rose therefore to answer the various topics of enquiry that had been touched upon by the hon. and learned gent. If he should not be able to auswer them in the order in which they had occurred, or should omit to notice any particular question, he had only to beg of the learned gent. to remind him of the omission, and he should endeavour to satisfy the enquiry. The first question of the hon. and learned gent, was, whether there was any passage in any other letter from M. Talleyrand, similar to the very extra-tainty that the cabinet of St. Petersburg ordinary interpolation, which appeared in would refuse to ratify that treaty. As he the publication by the French government. had not been prepared for this question, His answer to this was, that there was not, this was all that he could at present answer; in any letter received from M. Talleyrand, he did not mean, however, to say, that any passage bearing the most distant refe- there might not have been other sufficient rence to the interpolation alluded to. To reasons. The next question of the learned the next question, which related to the ex-geut. respecting the detailed communicatract, No. 3, he had only to answer, that tions in the correspondence between the the whole of the contents of that letter, secretary of state's office and lords Yarwhich could throw any light upon the ne-mouth and Lauderdale, with regard to the gociation, had been published; and here efforts for the restitution of Naples to his he could not but observe, that the publi-Sicilian majesty, he should answer by saycation of the French government had ren-ing, that they had laid all the documents dered it unavoidable to publish several do- before the house, which they looked upon cuments, that it would not otherwise be as necessary, to enable them to form a regular to insert in such a collection. As complete judgment upon the case. There to the enquiry, whether there had been any were not many more documents, but those private letter from Mr. Fox in answer to that had not been produced were of such the letter of the 5th of March, he could a confidential nature, and upon the subject not answer, he did not know, and should of the views of his majesty's government, make enquiry; but he rather thought that that it was not thought discreet or wise to some such answer might have been sent. publish them, especially as such publicaThe next question of the learned gent.tion might affect a future negociation. The was, whether any communication had been last point upon which the learned gent. had made by this government to lord Yarmouth, desired information was with respect to previous to his leaving France. To this the terms on which lord Lauderdale was he should answer, none, most certainly not,authorized to treat for Russia. The terms consistently with his knowledge. As to had been confidentially communicated to the date of lord Yarmouth's communica- his majesty's government, and consequently tion with M. Talleyrand, he could not they had not considered themselves at liprecisely answer; but as that noble lordberty to publish them. But he could have left Paris on the 23d of May, it must have no difficulty in stating, what must appear been previous to that day. The noble on the face of the papers, that the terms on Lord, in consequence of having been obli- which Russia proposed to treat, as stated ged to come round by Morlaix, did not in the projét of count Budberg, were that arrive till the 4th of June, and his commu- Sicily should be confirmed to his Sicilian nication must have been made to Mr. Fox majesty, and that Dalmatia should be eva in a very few days after his arrival. It had cuated by the French. These were all the been made on the 7th or 8th, verbally, and points to which the learned gent. had adit had afterwards been deemed necessary verted, and on these points he had endea to have it reduced to writing, when it was voured to satisfy his enquiries. The learnthought advisable to send back lord Yar-ed gent. had undoubtedly a right to call mouth to Paris, upon receiving an account for explanation on any point that might of the intention of the Russian cabinet to seem to him to want illustration, relative send a minister to that city, in order to to the rupture of the negociation; but the

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