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HOUSE OF COMMONS.

of, but the prejudice they were calculated the 5th of February ; but, after a few reto cast on a contested election, on which marks from the speaker and lord H. Petty, the learned gent. himself might be called the hon. gent, withdrew his motion, and to sit as a judge. The triumphal car the 3d of February was fixed for the consiand the procession which had excited the deration of this petition.-A petition from spleen of the learned gent., was, he would certain electors of Norfolk, in the interest venture to say, one of the most popular of Mr. Wodehouse, was laid on the lable. triumphs that had ever been witnessed in this petition was read. It charged the canthis or in any other city. (A laugh.) didates who were returned, Messrs. Coke

Lord Folkestone said, that he had not and Windham, with having been guilty of been aware of the circumstance with re-treating, &c. Ordered to be taken into spect to the circuit, and that it certainly consideration on the 5th of February. would be necessary to accommodate the - Lord Howick, adverting to what he had counsel.-The motion was then agreed to. stated on a former day relative to the

means of facilitating the progress of pri

vate bills, observed, that he had since conMonday, December 29.

sulted with those who were competent to [MINUTES.] Upon the motion of Mr. form a correct opinion upon that subject, Swan, the consideration of the petition and that he should the next day move, that relative to the Penrhyn Election was the house do make an order that, after discharged, and fixed for the 29th of fixing the time within which private petiJanuary. The consideration of a petition tious should be presented, the house should from the hon. Wm. Ponsonby, relative to occupy itself until half after four o'clock the county of Londonderry Election, was each day in receiving the reports of private fixed for the same day.--Two petitions committees, and in forwarding private buwere presented complaining of the return siness. for Horsham, and they were appointed (NAVY Estimates.) Mr. T. Grenville for consideration upon the same day as moved, that the house should resolve itself that fixed for the petition already before into a conimittee of supply. Upon the the house respecting the said election. A speaker's leaving the chair, there was a gepetition from Mr. T. Jones against the veral cry of “ Mr. Hobhouse to the chair!" Return for Shrewsbury was laid upon the That hon. gent, accordingly took his seat table; and upon the speaker's moving, at the table, and is therefore considered as that it should be considered on the first chairman of the connnittees of supply and vacant day, namely, the 3d of February, ways and means. Mr. Johnstone, understanding that further Mr. T. Grenville (first lord of the admi. time was required for the accomniodation ralty) then rose. He said, that from the of the parties to this petition, proposed situation which he now held, it became his the 14th of February. The speaker felt it his duty to submit to the consideration of the duty to observe, that the proposed post- committee the necessary Naval Supplies ponement would be a departure froin the proposed to be granted to his majesty. general practice of the house in such ca- There being no particular circumstances ses ; the earliest vacant day being uniform- in the Estimates which he deenied necessaly fixed upon in the first instance: and if ry to lay before the committee, that difany farther postponement were afterwards fered from those of the preceding year, he required, it was generally the practice of did not deem it necessary to detain the the house to accede to it, upon special committee with any preliminary observacause being assigned. llaving stated the tions. He should confine himself entirely practice on such occasions, it was of course to stating, that what he had to propose to for the discretion of the house to deter- the house, as to the number of men to mine upon the course to be pursued in this serve in his majesty's navy, and the expence instance. Some conversation arose upon attending thein, was precisely the same as this point, in which lord Howick, lord H. had been voted last year. But although Petty, and Mr. Bennet, one of the parties he declined making any observations at interested in the petition, took a part, and present, he should of course avail himself concurred in the propriety of the speaker's of his right to reply to any remarks that objections ; Mr. Bennet observing, that might be offered upon this subject.

The the proposed delay would interfere with right hon. gent. concluded with moving the assizes. Mr. Johnstone then proposed the following resolutions, which were agreed

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to; viz. 1. " That it is the opinion of this ing of the late elections for Plymouth, conimittee, that 120,000 men be employed Maidstone, Dublin, and Chippenham, which for the sea service for the year 1807, in- were severally ordered to be taken into concluding 29,000 royal marines. 2. That a sideration on the following days: the Plysum, not exceeding 2,886,0001., be granted mouth petition on the 5th of February; to his majesty, for wages of the said Maidstone and Dublin petitions on the 10th 120,000 meu for 13 months, at the rate of of February; and the Chippenham petition on 11. 178. per man per month. 3. That a the 12th of February, on which day a petition suin, not exceeding 2,964,0001., be granted from several burgesses of Chippenham, was to his majesty, for victuals for the said also ordered to be taken into consideration. 120,000 men for 13 months, at the rate of — The house went into a committee on the 11. 185. per man per month. 4. That a act for regulating the Leather trade, and, sum, not exceeding 4,680,0001., be granted on the motion of lord Temple, agreed to to his majesty, for the wear and tear of the a resolution, that the chairman do ask ships in which the said 120,000 men are to leave to bring in a bill to repeal so much serve, for 13 months, at the rate of 31. per of the said act as prohibits the regrating of man per month. 5. That a sum, not ex- Oak Bark, and to indemnify certain per. ceeding 390,0001., be granted to his ma- sons who had incurred penalties for regrajesty, for ordnance for sea service on board ting oaken bark. Lord Temple stated, that the ships in wbich the said 120,000 men the whole of the Tanning trade was carried are to serve, sur 13 inonths, at the rate of ou with bark purchased of persons who 5s. per man per month,"— The house then bought to sell again. This had been pro. resurned, and the report was ordered to be bibited under a penalty by the act referred brought up the next day.

10 the committee; but the act was never

put in force; and it was not until last HOUSE OF COMMONS.

year that some informers had brought qui Tuesday, December 30.

tam actions to recover the penalties in[MINUTES.] Mr. Raine gave notice that curred under the act, that it had been lie should, on Friday next, move for leave found necessary to repeal it. Last session, to bring in a bill to explain and amend two he had brouglit in an act to suspend the acts, the ad of Richard II, and the 32d of prosecutions, and as the business of the llenry VIII. for the preventing of any man trade could not be carried on, without perof law from acting as a justice of assize in mitting the regrating of Oak Bark, he then his own county. These acts imposed a penal- proposed, that that part of the bill which ty of 1001. for every instance in which their prohibited this practice, should be repealed. provisions were departed from, and the ob- The house then resunied, and Mr. Hobject of the measure he meant to propose, house, the chairman, obtained leave to would be to render their operation more bring in the bill. effectual. Mr.Corry trusted that due care [DISTILLATION OF SUGAR.] Lord Temwould be taken to prevent the measure ple rose pursuant to notice, to move that from operating any change in the law as it a committee be appointed to consider of at present stands in that part of the united the possibility, and, if possible, of the prokingdom called Ireland, until it should be priety of permitting Sugar and Molasses ascertained that such change was desirable. io be used in Distilleries and Breweries. There existed several acts of the Irish In making this motion, it was not his inparliament upon this subject, to which he tention to pledge either bimself or the begged leave to direct the attention of the house to the measure.

He wished at prelearned

gent. before he brought forward his sent only that a committee should be apmeasure. At any rate, he thought it would pointed to enquire into the subject, leabe desirable for the learned gent. to deferving it open to the house to take such prohis motion, until there should be an op- ceeding hereafter as the circumstances of portunity of consulting the Irish govern- the case should be found to require. In ment and law officers, how far the measure the present situation of affairs, the circumcould be applied to Ireland. - After a stances of the continental nations must short conversation between Mr. Raine and necessarily bear hard on many branches of Mr. Corry, the former wi: hdrew bis no-commerce, but on

more heavily tice for the present, in order to allow time hau upon our West-India trade. It was for obtaining every information on the sub-ascertained that there were at present in ject.-Petitions were presented, complain the port of London alone, between 80 and 90,000 hogsheads of Sugar upon band. measure to be brought forward, no prediThe quantity in the same situation in the lection would be shewn for any one class of out-ports was proportionably great: so landed proprietors. The committee which ibat the Sugars on hand in the whole had sat last session, had thrown much light of England amounted to 150 or 160,000 upon the subject, and he trusted, therefore, hogsheads. This statement alone would be that the whole of the case would be atsufficient to convince the house of the tended to in the present instance. He had propriety of taking some measures for the thought it necessary to say thus much, in relief of so important a branch of the na- order that the house should not be consi. tional commerce. It might not be amiss dered as pledged to the measure, from the bere to state, that it was not in contempla- circumstance of this early stage of the tion to submit any proposition for the in- business passing without any observation troduction of sugar and molasses into upon it. The committee was appointed breweries and distilleries, to the exclusion accordingly. of grain. The object was to allow the use [WOOLLEN Trade.] Lord Temple, purof them upon principles of fair competi-suant to notice, begged leave to call the tion, not of exclusion. All the parties attention of the house to the state of the too, whose interests might be concerned, Woollen Manufacture of the country, and whether brewers, distillers, or others, would of the laws relating to that important subhave an opportunity of making out their ject. A committee had been appointed cases before the committee. Having pre- last session to consider of the matter, and mised thus much, the noble lord concluded had taken a large mass of evidence upon by moving, “ That a committee be ap- every part of the case. It had been the pointed to consider of the expediency of intention of the gentlernen who promoted permitting the use of Sugar and Molasses that enquiry, to follow up the investigation in the Distillery and Brewery, for a time to by some legislative measure, which might be limited, under the circumstances now provide some remedy for all the inconaffecting the trade of the British colonies veniences resulting from the operation of in the West Indies; and to report the same, the statutes then in existence. The diswith their observations and opinions thereon, solution of parliament, however, by preto the house."

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cluding the house from instituting any proMr. Dent expressed an earnest wish, that ceeding upon a report of the committee of this important subject should not be another parliament, had made it necessary hastily decided upon, but that sufficient to take up the business anew. The course tine should be afforded for a mature con- he proposed to follow, therefore, was to sideration of all the great interests con- move that the laws relating to the Woollen nected with it.

Manufactures be referred to a committee, Lord Temple was disposed to afford all and also the report of the committee of last the parties whose interesis might be con- session. Upon the report of this comcerned, a full opportunity of being heard, mittee, the house would found the ulterior and it was with that view that he had measure that was necessary for the interest adopted the mode he had just propo- of this important branch of our manufacsed, of appointing a committee before turés. From communications which he which all such parties might be heard. But had had with the parties most interested, from the circumstances he had stated, it he bad the satisfaction lo state that tliey would be obvious that some immediate re- did not propose to bring forward any freslı lief was necessary, and that his object evidence, but were prepared to rest upon would be defeated by any considerable the case they had made out last session. delay.

He expected, therefore, that the question Mr. Baker hoped that those gentlemen would be brouglit to issue in the present who proposed to bring forward this mea- session. But whatever pleasure he should sure, would consider well what effect it feel in bringing it to a might have on the value of lands and the nation, he was not di

iad adinterests of agriculture in this country. hearing any further ev points he had endeaHe was aware that there might be many be thought essential. Wie wiries. Thish that circumstances which would require of the all the parties interested should be fully legislature to altend particularly to particu- heard, if they had not felt that the case as lar branches of the property and trade of made out before the former committee was the country; but he did hope that, in the fully sufficieut.--The several laws relating

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de to the Woollen Manufactures, and the re-lit was very material that the whole of it soi port of the committee of last session there should be produced. Another point on ch

were then, on the motion of lord Tem- which he desired to be informed, was wheEl ple, referred to a committee.

ther lord Yarmouth had received any com(NEGOCIATION WITH FRANCE.) Mr.munication from Mr. Fox, or from any of . 25 Percetul rose for the purpose of putting his majesty's ministers, previous to his first had one or two questions to the noble lord op- leaving France; also the date of that noble isposite (lord Ilowick), on the subject of the lord's communication with M. Talleyrand; 03• papers then in the hands of the members together with the date of bis leaving Paris, te of the house, with a view to obtain infor- and of his arrival in London, The first the mation upon certain points, which appeared communication from lord Yarmouth to 1.100! to hiin to require to be further elucidated. Mr. Secretary Fox certainly appeared dated Lite He wished to put the questions to the noble tbe 13th of July, but he wished to know

lord, because the answers be might receive, whether that was the date when the disbut might perhaps render it unnecessary for patch was addressed to Mr. Fox, or when the him to give any notice of a motion on the it was drawn up. The next point related the subject, and it might also happen, that the to a statement in an official note presented ad uoble lord, when informed of the points to by lord Lauderdale to gen. Clarke, dated Cbr which his enquiries were directed, might Aug. 6," that intervening circumstances, id not have any objection to accede to such which it was unnecessary to detail, had enand motion. as should be neces

cessary, in order to abled his majesty to enter into a separate pas come at the information he required, in the treaty." Now, it did not appear upon the te most satisfactory manner. He should, face of the Papers what these circumstances pied therefore, state the points on whith“ be were, and he wished to be informed re1202 thought information necessary, and be specting them. Another question he wishs guided by the answers he should receive, ed to ask, grew out of a passage in the discul as to the course he should ultimately adopt. patch of the 10th of September, from the n. The first point upon which he wished to be right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Windham) to di informed, related to an extraordinary in- lord Lauderdale, The passage was, “ every pre terpolation, which appeared in the letter effort was made at the outset of the negopro- from M. Talleyrand to Mr. Secretary Fox, ciation to obtain the restitution of Naples e dated April 1, as published by the French to his Sicilian majesty." He wished to sary government, when compared with the letter know what those efforts had been, and urze of the same date in the official papers on whether there were any documents to shew 3 10 the table (p. 95.) He wished to know whe- that they had been made, and whether lither there had been a passage similar to there would be any objection to lay before 12 that extraordinary interpolation in any the house the details of the reasons for delas letter received by Mr. Fox from M. Fal- parting from that claim, as said in that dis00- leyrand, aud also whether any answer had patch to be detailed in the correspoudence Tiep been returned by Mr. Fox to that letter of the foreign office, with lords Yarmouth se: The next objert of the information he de- and Lauderdale. The last question he had 12* sired was the letter No. 3, from M. Tal-to put, related to the communication made

leyrand, dated March 5, as it appeared in by lord Lauderdale to M. Talleyrand, stacted the papers before the house: This was ting that he was authorized to negociate lien evidently an extract from the letter re- also for Russia on the same terms as had rest ceived by Mr. Fox, and it struck him that been communicated to M. Talleyrand by per it would be extremely desirable, previous his excellency count Budberg. It did not Je to the discussion of the papers, that the appear on the face of the papers what these sic house should be in possession of the whole terms were ; and on an occasion in which se of this document. Of this he was so con- the house was to be called on to decide uut vinced, that if the noble lord should not be upon the merits of the negociation and the

prepared to us usoré the document to the rupture of it, he felt that it was absolutely to know whether tlieel it his duty to make necessary that they should be put in pos.

'semainder of thon the subject, reser session of the ternis upon which it was

ving his sic asins until he should come to proposed to treat. ully make the motion. This letter, he was Lord Howick said, he was most willing

aware, was a private one; but as it had to give every explanation ou the subject of Was been made the channel of communication any part of the papers that were to be disa 100g upon the relations of the two countries, cussed on Monday, which might be thought VOL. VIII.

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necessary for the perfect elucidation of that have an opportunity of communicating important subject. He rose therefore to with M. d'Oubril. As to the intervening answer the various topics of enquiry that circumstances, stated by lord Lauderdale, bad been touched upon by the bon. and that enabled his majesty to enter into a selearved gent. If he should not be able to parate negociation, the learned genl. must answer them in the order in which they be aware, that M. d'Oubril had concluded had occurred, or should omit to notice any a separate treaty on the 20th of July, and particular question, he had only to beg of that such a circunstance released us from ihe learned gent. to remind him of the the obligation of not treating separately. omission, and he should endeavour to sa- Until it could be known whether it would tisfy the enquiry. The first question of the or jould not be ratihed, it was to be conhon. and learned gent, was, whether there sidered the act of the Russian government, was any passage in any other letter from and we could not have had any moral cerM. Talleyrand, similar to the very extra- tainty that the cabinet of St. Petersburg ordinary interpolation, which appeared in would refuse to ratify that treaty. As he the publication by the French government. had not been prepared for this question, His abswer to this was, that there was not, this was all that be could at present answer; in any letter received froin M. Talleyrand, he did not mean, however, to say, that any passage bearing the most distant refe- there might not have been other sufficient reute to the interpolation alluded to. To reasons. The next question of the learned the next question, which related 10 tbe ex- geut., respecting the detailed communicatract, No. 3, he bad only to answer, that tions in the correspondence between the the whole of the contents of that letter, secretary of state's office and lords Yar. which could throw any light upon the ne- mouth and Lauderdale, with regard to the gociation, had been published; and here efforts for the restitution of Naples to his he could not but observe, that the publie Sicilian majesty, he should answer by say. Cation of the French government had ren- ing, that they had laid all the documents dered it unavoidable to publish several do- before the house, which they looked upon cunients, that it would not otherwise be as necessary, to enable them to form a regular to insert in such a collection. As complete judgment upon the case. There to the enquiry, whether there had been any were not many more documents, but those private letter from Mr. Fox in answer to that had not been produced were of such ihe letter of the 5th of March, he could a confidential nature, and upon the subject not answer, he did not know, and should of the views of his majesty's government, make enquiry; but he rather thought that that it was not thought discreet or wise to some such answer might have been sent. publish them, especially as such publicaThe next question of the learned gent. tiou might affect a future negociation. The was, whether any communication had been last point upon which the learned gent. had made by this government to lord Yarmouthi, desired information was with respect to previous to his leaving France. To this the terms on which lord. Lauderdale was he should answer, none, most certainly not, authorized to treat for Russia. The terms consistently with his knowledge. As lo had been contidentially communicated to the date of lord Yarmouth's communica- his majesty's government, and consequently tion with M. Talleyrand, he could not they had not considered themselves at li* precisely answer; but as that noble lord berty tò publish them. But he could have left Paris on the 23d of May, it must have no difficulty in stating, whal must appear been previous to that day. The noble on the face of the papers, that the terms on lord, in consequence of having been obli- which Russia proposed to treat, as stated ged to come round by Motlaix, did not in the projét of count Budberg, were that arrive till the 4th of June, and his commu. Sicily should be confirmed to his Sicilian nication must have been made to Mr. Fox|majesty, and that Dalmatia should be eva. in a very few days after his arrival. It bad cuated by the French. These were all the been made on the 7th or 8th, verbally, and points to which the learned grent. had adit had afterwards been deemed necessary verted, and on these points he had endeato have it reduced to writing, when it was voured to satisfy his enquiries. The learn. thought advisable to send back lord Yar-led gent. had undoubtedly a right to call mouth to Paris, upon receiving an account for explanation on any point that might of the intention of the Russian cabinet to seem to him to want illustration, relative send a minister to that city, in order to to the rupture of the negociation, bul

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