persuade the house to adopt his plan, and expedient to appropriate for the interest of avoid the ruinous consequences of that of such sum, viz. 2,668,2917., a part of the the noble lord. By his mode, he propo- Interest redeemed by the operation of the sed to take advantage of the war taxes Sinking Fund within the year, there would during the war, and to mortgage them only be on that account, a reduction of such at the end of the war, and then to charge Sinking Fund in each year to the amount the war debt upon the war taxes. By this of 133,418/. That the employment of a plan there would be a smaller amount of considerable sum in the purchase of Stock, permanent debt, and a larger sinking fund at successive periods throughout the year, created, than by the new one proposed by under the provisions which now regulate the noble lord. In this case, the supple- the purchase of Stock by the Commissioners mentary loans would not be felt during for the Redemption of the National Debt, the war, and the amount of the war loan has a tendency to keep up the price of the would be but 11 millions annually, the in- Funds, and is consequently, in the time of terest of which he proposed to provide for war, of advantage both to the Public and in part out of the proceeds of the sinking to the Stockholder." fund. If the noble lord should, on looking 4." That the Sinking Fund may in each into his calculations, think them worthy of year be carried to the amount proposed for his attention, he should be happy to furnish such year in the New Plan, by making a him with every information on the subject; Supplementary Loan equal to the amount of and he had no doubt that he could prove to the difference between the Sinking Fund, him, that his own ideas could be better as it would otherwise stand for such year, carried into effect by this, than by the new and the amount proposed in such Plan plan. The hon. baronet concluded with for the purpose of supplying that diffemoving the following Resolutions: rence." 1." That, in the New Plan of Finance, it 5" That such Supplementary Loan, when is proposed to mortgage,during each year of added to the Sinking Fund, by reducing an war, a certain portion of the War Taxes, amount of Interest equal to the charge of Into provide for the payment of the Interest terest increased by raising the same, it is oband Sinking Fund of part of the Loan, vious, that, whatever advantage might result which shall be made in that year; and from so large an increase of Sinking Fund, also to provide what shall be further operating in the market, (if an increase to the wanted for the Public Service by a Supple-amount proposed by the New Plan, and mentary Loan." 2." That, the War Expenditure being stated at 32,000,0007., it will be necessary, in addition to the War Taxes unpledged, to make Loans in the first year to the amount of 12,000,000/. in order to meet that expenditure, and Loans to a larger amount in each subsequent year.” wholly produced by adding to the Loan of the year, can really be deemed advantageous) might equally be obtained by this mode, without any additional burthen to the public." 6. "That the smallness of the Loan for the service of the year, in proportion to the Sinking Fund, must also have a tendency to keep up the price of Funds." 3. "That if no part of the War Taxes 7. "That this advantage will result in a were to be pledged, a Loan of 11,000,000l. greater degree from the system of borrowing annually would be sufficient for this pur-11,000,000l. only in each year, than by pose. That the amount of the present having recourse to the larger Loans, which Sinking Fund is 8,331,709., and therefore would be required for the service of each the Annual Interest of a Loan to that year under the New Plan." amount might be provided, by appropriating for that purpose the Interest of Debt redeemed annually, without causing any diminution in the present amount of that Fund. That the interest of 2,668,2917. being the difference between the present amount of the Sinking Fund, and the sum of 11,000,000l., with the usual Sinking Fund of one per cent. upon the nominal Capital, would be 177,8867. per annum, supposing the 3 per cents. to continue at 60: and that if it should at any time be thought 8. "That this mode of providing for the War Expenditure, would consequently be more advantageous to the public, and to the Stockholder, than the New Plan; and that if, upon the return of peace, a portion of the War Taxes exactly equal to what would be pledged at the same period, by the New Plan, were then to be pledged, to meet the annual charge of such portion of the Total Debt, as that amount of taxes would provide for at an interest of 10 per cent., including the Sinking Fund upon the the Navy service. As to the Mutiny bill, there were many amendments to be moved in it, to which he did not understand there would be much objection; it was proposed therefore, that it should go through the committee pro forma, for the purpose of having the additional clauses introduced into it, after which the bill would be re same, the remainder would be the perma: the same privilege to Roman Catholics in nent Debt, leaving the present annual charge of the portion of the debt so deducted and provided for, to be added to the amount of the permanent Sinking Fund." 9. "That the debt on the War Taxes, being in the same manner deducted on the return of peace, from the Total Debt which may have then been contracted upon the New Plan, the remainder would be the Per-committed on Monday next, and from the manent Debt incurred by that Plan, and that, the Sinking Fund of the War Taxes being deducted from the total Sit.king Fund, which may have arisen within the same period, the remainder would be the Permanent Sinking Fund." advanced period of the season, gentlemen would be aware of the necessity of passing the bill with all convenient dispatch. Mr. Yorke was glad that the noble lord had adopted the plan of bringing forward his regulations respecting the Roman Catholics as a separate measure. 10. "That the operations of the mode now proposed, whilst they afford some [COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY-PRUSSIA.] comparative advantage during the conti- The house went into a committee of supnuance of the War, would place the Finan-ply, on the motion of lord Henry Petty. ces of the country in a much more favour- The king's message of Monday relative to able situation, at the restoration of peace, Prussia having been read, than those of the New Plan, at whatever period peace may be concluded; and that at the termination of the period of 20 years the comparison would be as follows: Sinking Fund, mode proposed Sinking Fund of the New Plan Amount of Taxes imposed by the £. 2,051,000 New Plan Amount of Taxes imposed by mode proposed Less amount of Taxes by the mode proposed £.65,772 Lord Henry Petty stated, that it was unnecessary for him to recall to the recollection of the house the circumstances under which lord Hutchinson had left this Permanent Debt by the New Plan £.318,311,495 country for the continent, and the state of Permanent Debt by the mode proposed 285,595,705 the continent at that period. That noble Less Debt by the mode proposed £.32,715,790 lord had been dispatched, as well for the 14,359,900 purpose of communicating such information 12,762,691 as might be necessary to this country, as Larger Sinking Fund by mode proposed £.1,597,209 to afford such aid as could be conveniently granted to the king of Prussia in the unfor tunate circumstances in which he was then placed. Shortly after his arrival at his destination, he had made an advance of 80,000%. to that monarch, for a purpose the importance of which the house would, he had no doubt, readily admit, namely, the defence of the remaining fortresses. Strong representations had been made to him, that, without such an advance, it would not be possible to pay the army intended for the defence of those fortresses, some of which, however, had since unfortunately been taken. He did not feel it necessary to say more than to move, that it be the opinion of the committee that a sum, not exceeding 80,000, be granted to his majesty, to make good a like sum advanced to the king of Prussia, in consequence of the urgency of the state of affairs on the continent, The resolutions were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed, and the debate on them was adjourned to Thursday se'nnight. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, March 4. [MUTINY BILL-ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Lord Howick, adverting to the notice which he had given for this day, relative to the introduction of additional clauses into the Mutiny bill, for allowing Roman Catholics to hold certain commissions in the army, and for granting soldiers of that persuasion the free exercise of their religion, informed the house that on more mature consideration of the subject it had been deemed more proper to bring in a separate bill for that purpose; which bill he proposed to move for leave to bring in tomorrow. At the same time he thought it right to state that it was intended to extend VOL. VIII. Mr. Bankes wished to know when the noble lord intended that the repert of the committee should be brought up, as he had some observations to make upon this subject. Lord II. Petty answered, that it was his intention to have it reported to-morrow; but if it should be wished, he had no objec32 tion to propose its being postponed till the when he had submitted his former stateday following. No reply being made, the ments to the house; but, in consequence of resolution was agreed to, and the report the deduction of the expenditure of the ordered to be received to morrow. [COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANSBUDGET.] The house having resolved itself into a committee of Ways and Means, Lord Henry Petty, pursuant to notice, rose to state the terms of the Loan, and to recapitulate the Supplies and Ways and Means of the year. As an opportunity had already been afforded him, from the nature of the Plan of Finance, which, on a former occasion, he had opened to the house, of adverting in a detailed view to the extent of the supplies and ways and means of the year, he did not feel it then necessary for him to go at large into the statements he had formerly submitted to the house. But, as the loan had since been negociated, and as the time that had elapsed, enabled him to make the several statements with more accuracy than in the first instance he might have done, he hoped for the indulgence of the committee, whilst he shortly recapitulated the several branches of the supply and ways and means of the year; after which he proposed to state the terms upon which the contract for the loan of the year had been concluded, and then to explain what part of the Ways and Means of the year would be permanent: commissary-general's department from the The apportionment of the Votes of Together The whole of the joint charges as he had stated, would be 2,800,000 200,000 £. 3,000,000 To which was to be added Interest of which made the Total Charge Deduct 2-17ths for Ireland Remains to be defrayed by Great Bri- 45,396,575 1,200,000 350,000 200,000 47,046,575 5,545,677 41,500,898 He had next to state the Ways and Means by which these supplies were to be 13,648,098 covered;→→ Land and Malt Surplus of Consolidated Fund 975,687 War Taxes this year 841,526 Lottery ches of the Army Expenditure -£.15,465,311 Extraordinaries, Great Britain Ireland Vote of Credit - £.2,750,000 3,500,000 19,800,000 320,000 3,000,000 12,200,000 Excess of Extraordina ries this year £.2,950,000 600,000 Together Making the Total Army Charge Ordnance, including 422,5001. for Sea Ireland Making together Miscellaneous Services for Great Bri- Vote of Credit He bad stated the Loan as a part of the Ways and Means of the year, and he had 793.710 next to inform the committee of the terms 1,809,021 upon which that loan had been contracted for; a duty which he should per 3,264,469 form with satisfaction, from the advanta479,246 geous terms upon which it had been nego 3,743,715 ciated. The terms of the loan were for every 100%. subscribed, 1,200,000 The noble lord observed, that there was an excess in the extraordinaries, of 793,7 107. this year, which he had not been aware of Three per Cent. Reduced Being at an Interest of £.70 00 The committee would be sensible of the advantageous nature of this contract for million. He asked, therefore, whether it was not a fallacy to leave out an item of expenditure, which followed so closely on the noble lord's first statement in arranging any financial plan for the future. He could not conceive how he could have overlooked the excess of the extraordinaries of the present year, as he admitted, at the time of bringing forward his first statement. It could not have been for want of having the accounts made up, for that was regularly the public, by calling to mind the terms upon which last year's loan had been negociated; terms that were then considered advantageous. The loan of last year had been negociated at an interest of 47. 19s. 7 d. for every 100%.; so that the public gained 5s. per cent. on the present loan.-Having stated the several items of Supply and Ways and Means, and explained to the house the terms of the loan, he should think he had fulfilled his duty if he had not thought it necessary to add another state-done in the offices. He knew of no way in ment, to shew, that, notwithstanding the ex- which such an excess could arise, except cess of the extraordinaries, the sum of 32 from the arrival of bills from abroad, as millions would be sufficient for the expen- all the bills that had already arrived must diture of the year, and for future expendi- have been entered in the offices, at the time ture, exclusive of subsidies and extraordi- the noble lord brought forward his plan. naries arising from the rise of the price of Was the house to suppose, that in the space articles of stores, &c. He wished to put of six months an excess of nearly 800,0007. the committee in possession of the grounds had accrued in the extraordinary expenupon which he supposed that the Ways diture? He had always been of opinion, and Means, offered by 32 millions, would be that the noble lord's supposition, that 32 sufficient to cover the expenditure, with millions would be sufficient prospectively the exceptions he had stated. This he for the country, was totally fallacious, and should shew, by deducting from the sup- he had, therefore, recommended to the plies all that was due on arrears, all that noble lord to assume a larger expenditure was due on subsidies, and the excess of ex- for the purpose of guarding against a failure traordinaries, in which case there would re-in his statements, main, as he conceived, sufficient to provide Lord H. Petty replied by appealing to for the same expenditure as in the present every gentleman who had heard him, year; and also,by deducting all of the Ways whether he had not distinctly excepted and Means of the present year that was ex-extraordinary expenditure by subsidies, traordinary, and not available for a future and produced by a bill of stores and other year. The noble lord then entered into a articles, from his estimate of 32 millions? statement to shew, that by a deduction of He wished again to set himself right with the supplies that were extraordinary in the the right hon. gent, and the house on this votes of the present year, such as the pay-point. The expenditure of the present ment of the Loyalty Loan, the subsidies to year afforded the only comparatively certhe emperor of Russia, to the king of Swe-tain data whereon to found any calcula den, and to the king of Prussia, the remain- tion of the prospective expenditure of the der of the sum voted on credit, and the ex- country. The expenditure in subsidies cess of the extraordinaries of the present could not be anticipated, and therefore year, the supplies to be prospectively to be ought not to have been taken into any raised would be reduced from the supplies certain calculation, of the present year, viz. 41,600,8987. to 38,100,1307. He was not aware that it was necessary for him to say any thing fur-nerous mind at the charge of fallacy; but ther on the subject; and he should therefore move the first resolution.-On the question being put, Sir T. Turton observed, that the noble lord had kindled with the warmth of a ge this was not meant in any invidious sense. The event had proved, that from some cause or other the expenditure could not Mr. Rose wished to call the attention be confined to 32 millions. If the idea, of the house to the statement of the noble therefore, had gone out among the public, lord. The noble lord had excluded from that this criterion was correct, there was, his consideration, in the first formation of no doubt, a fallacy with respect to the pubhis plan, any estimate founded upon the lic. He asked, whether the 500,000/. subsubsidies that might be necessary, and yet sidy to Russia was in consequence of the scarcely a month had elapsed, when the treaty of 1805, or any new treaty? [Mr. noble lord came forward with a provision Vansittart intimated that it was in conse for subsidies to the amount of nearly one quence of the old treaty.] Then he would wish to know whether the 80,000l. to Prus- gentry in Ireland, to send their sons to that sia was the whole that was intended to be university, previous to the foundation of given, or whether it was the commencement the Maynooth seminary. On a former of something further? If it was only a pre-occasion, when these estimates were subvious step to something further, he meant mitted to a committee of the house, he had to propose a motion on that subject. He argued on the great and numerous benefits thought that subsidies to Prussia in the pre- which would arise from the joint education sent state of that country would be wasting of both Roman Catholics and Protestants, money. It would produce no good what- in the same university. It was affirmed by ever: the fortresses, for the preservation of the right hon. baronet opposite, (sir J. which this 80,0007. had been given, had been Newport,), that, from the shortness of the captured, and there were little hopes that any period since the relaxation of the penal staassistance of this sort would be of service. tute, which precluded the education of a Mr. Vansittart replied, that it was to catholic in the university of Dublin, it wind up the account of former years. He could not be expected that a great number entered into a short explanation of the sub-of catholic students should have embraced ject before the committee; after which the that opportunity. But the actual number, resolutions were agreed to, and the house whether great or small, could not affect the having been resumed, the report was order-question; if the opportunity was taken aded to be received to-morrow. vantage of by any catholics, however few, [IRISH MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES-it went to prove, that in their minds there ROMAN CATHOLIC COLLEGE.] Mr. Hob-existed no prejudice against a participation house brought up the report of the commit- with their protestant countrymen in the tee of supply. The resolutions (grants for the service of Ireland) were read and agreed to, until the resolution for granting the sum of 13,000l.for defraying the charge of the Roman catholic seminary at Maynooth, in Ireland; on which a discussion arose. same collegiate education. The Journals of the Irish house of commons gave important information upon that point. In perusing them he had found, that at the period when the measure of founding the Maynooth seminary was submitted to the Irish parliament, the Catholics themselves pre Mr. Perceval rose to oppose the said grant. Since he had last stated his opi-sented a petition against the inexpediency nion to the house on that subject, he had of excluding the Protestants from the option taken no slight means of acquiring informa- of being educated there. The prayer of tion, and the result of his enquiry went that petition was grounded on the great namore stedfastly to fix the motives of his tional benefits a communion of opinion and opposition. It was not the amount of the mutual good-will were so likely to produce. sum, increased as it was in the present They certainly felt, what every true friend instance, that solely excited his hostility; to England and Ireland must feel, that it was in the growing nature of the demand, friendship and conciliation would follow, that he saw the strongest ground of alarm. from the professors of the two religions As the Irish parliament had thought such a being associated in their education; and it measure of policy advisable, he was still was with no light source of regret that the willing to retain the principle of meeting circumstances of the case made it necessary that determination; indeed, the united to declare, that the opportunity of effecting legislature were bound by the principles of such beneficial consequences was suffered to good faith to continue the grant. But there escape. Had the public money been at was a wide difference between the allow that time expended in enlarging the uni ance of a grant, averaged annually at versity of Dublin, instead of adopting the 8000l., and the concurrence in demands, policy of a separate institution, a great which were progressively increasing, and object would have been obtained, the be has, in the present estimate, actually a-nefits arising from which, would be found mounted to 13,000l. There was, in his every day to increase. Indeed it was not mind, another very strong ground of objec-saying too much, to assume, that the intion to the enlargement of this catholic seminary, that it operated to the prejudice of the University of Dublin. The house, by adverting to the Journals of the Irish house of commons, would find, that it was growing practice with the Roman Catholic terests of the Protestant university appeared sacrificed to the advancement of the Catholic seminary. Within a few years, the professors of the latter institution were doubled; that is, from 9 professors origi ually, there were now 18: and for this is |