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proper that I should state shortly the ob-take upon me to say, that within one ject for which I move the reprinting of the month after the papers are printed, I shall papers, and of the printing of such others, be further prepared to move those resolu as appear to me to be requisite for the tions on the papers, which I shall judge thorough understanding of the affair. It requisite. I am of opinion it could be done has been said, and the same sentiment in much less time, if necessary; but the seems to pervade the whole correspon- subject is important, and demands a full dence of the East-India company and the enquiry. I hesitate not to say, that I bring governor of Madras, that policy might this subject forward as an independent memhave rendered it necessary that we should ber of parliament, anxious to rescue the assume the government of the Carnatic. country from the imputation of misconduct; My motion goes to lay before the house and I beg leave to observe, that I have no those papers which shew whether there connection whatever with those who were then really existed any ground or pretence first concerned in bringing this subject forfor saying that the conduct of the nabob ward. With regard to Mr. Paull, I have had rendered that assumption necessary. no difficulty in stating, that I think he deIt is observable, with reference to the con- serves well of his country for the part he duct of marquis Wellesley, immediately has taken in these transactions. I never after the surrender of Seringapatam, that saw him in my life. My reason for promohe refers to an intended account which was ting this enquiry arises from an anxiety I to be rendered of the motives which indu- feel, that this country should not suffer in ced the noble marquis to assume the govern- its character from imputations which it ment, alleging that he would send a review does not deserve. I shall conclude with of those transactions to England; but it moving, "that the papers which were predoes not appear that he ever sent that pro-sented to this house upon the 21st and 23d mised statement. There are some letters days of June 1802, and upon the 10th day of the court of directors, too, which re- of August 1803, relative to the Carnatic, quire explanation, on which I give no be reprinted for the members of the house." opinion at present; by which it appears Mr. Sheridan thanked the hon. baronet that some difference existed between my for his liberality and candour, and acknowlord Clive and the marquis Wellesley, in-ledged the pledge which he had given to volving matters which are not, in any degree, explained. The third set of papers regard the Polygar war, in 1801. It appears from the treaty of 1792, that the Company's government had a right deputed to them to collect the pishcash or tribute from the Polygars; and to enforce the payment, if necessary, on the requisition of the nabob. But every act to be performed, was to be done in the nabob's name, and by his authority. Now, this war, which was a very extraordinary one, both in its alleged cause and consequences, must, at first sight, appear to have been sanctioned at least by the nabob. It will, therefore, be necessary to ascertain whether, in point of fact, it was so or not; in order to shew that the nabob's government was either the cause of the war, or to free it from the consequences and the blame which might attach to that measure, But, sir, before I submit this motion to the house, it may be asked of me whether I do not think I owe some apology to the house as to the time which will be taken up by bringing this subject forward? and I think it is perfectly correct to ask me that question. Sir, if this motion be agreed to, I

proceed with the enquiry. He had stated the reasons which induced him to give it up, when the hon. baronet was not a member of the house. He would again state them at the proper time, and then the hon. baronet would be satisfied that he did him no more than justice, in giving him credit for the purity of his motives. The question, as he thought, was confined to the conduct of the Madras government, but from volumes of papers afterwards moved for, it appeared that the Bengal government, the directors, and the board of controul were also implicated. This was however not the ground of his abandoning the case. He thought the hon. baronet ought to confine himself to the reprinting of the papers before produced. If he moved for new ones, and was retorted upon in the manner he had been, he would subject himself to be called over the coals, and the business might be delayed longer than he could at present have any idea of. When he brought forward the charge, however, he would experience every support that he could give him.

Sir John Anstruther hoped that the hon. baronet would declare what was his object,

and against whom his motion was to be di- of directors never did approve of that mearected. Did he mean to attack lord Welles-sure; for the sake, therefore, of having the ley, or lord Powis, or the directors, or the conduct of the court of directors investiboard of controul, or the late ministers? gated, he was friendly to the present motion. He wished to know what he was driving at, He was very glad that the friends of lord if he knew it himself, for he seemed to have Wellesley were so desirous of entering into some doubts about the matter. In the mean this investigation. He declined, however, time he hoped that the house would not to enter into the merits of the revolution in allow the characters of the executive officers 1801, and he could speak with the greater to be complimented away by the praises freedom, as he had not at that period any which the right hon. gent. and the hon. share in the direction. It was to be obserbaronet, had thought proper to bestow on ved, however, that the board of controul each other. He contended that the con- took that affair into their own hands, and duct of the executive officers had been ap- superseded altogether the court of direc proved of by the directors and the board of tors. And the right hon. baronet (Sir J. controul, the cabinet, and this house. They Anstruther) opposite to him, was completely had only executed the orders they had mistaken in considering the secret commit. received, and the responsibility therefore tee, and the court of directors, as being did not rest with them, though he did not connected; it was, in point of fact, a comadmit that they had by any means even plete mistake, in form as well as in sublent themselves as instruments to any im-stance. The secret committee was the proper act. He then adverted to the in-express, direct, and immediate organ of the justice done to persons accused, by allowing board of controul. Their proceedings were the charge to hang over. He also said, that utterly unknown to the court of directors. from his own knowledge, he could affirm The secret committee was subject in no way that the revival of old charges was attended or respect whatsoever to the court of direcwith great mischief to our Indian government. It shook the confidence of the natives in its stability, and nourished a desire of change, which prevailed in a particular degree in these people, and was generally the case in arbitrary governments. He wished to know specifically what was the design of the hon. baronet before he gave his assent to the motion?

tors, who were indeed entirely ignorant of the proceedings of the secret committee. This act, therefore, of the secret committee, which the right hon. baronet treated as the act of the court of directors, was an act in which they had no share, of which they had no knowledge,—an act with which they had not the slightest concern; and it was an act on which the board of controul had exercised its authority; and as that board was superior in India concerns, it became extremely difficult for the court of directors even to express an opinion, much less exercise a judgment on a decision of the board of controul, without incurring the imputation of resisting superior authority. It was liable to the objection of leading to great derangement in their affairs. Another reason which prevented the interference was, the subject of the asumption of the Carnatic had become the subject of parliamentary enquiry, which superseded both the board of controul and the court of directors.

Mr. Grant said, though he did not flatter himself that much benefit would result from this discussion, yet, as a friend to discussion in general, and considering the house of commons as the only security which the inhabitants of British India had for protection and redress, and the only place in which an investigation into the affairs of India could be instituted, it was necessary that he should take notice of some assertions which had been made in the course of this debate. It was asserted, that they had recommended, if not ordered, the revolution which took place in India, by the assumption of the territories of the Carnatic, to which it must first be answered, that they disclaimed all interference in the nature of compulsion, and he read an ex-it ought not to be allowed to drag on for tract from their minutes, by which such an interference was expressly disclaimed, and then asked how such a proceeding should be tortured into an approbation, much less an authority, for the revolution which took place? He could state, that the court

Sir John Anstruther denied that, he wished to oppose enquiry. He only said that

years. The court of directors had instructed their officers to pay the same deference to the orders of the secret committee as to those of the directors themselves, and as the secret committee had approved of the conduct of lord Wellesley, he was fully

warranted in saying that the directors way back in an enquiry into Indian transthrough them had expressed their appro-actions. It was but reasonable that he should allow the same privilege to others.

bation of it.

Mr. Grant denied that the court of He was glad that the subject had come undirectors submitted themselves entirely to der investigation, and was not much alarmthe guidance of the secret committee. ed as to the result. He denied that the

But

Sir Arthur Wellestry said, he was dis-directors had given any instructions to sancposed to pursue the same line he had adopt-tion the revolution in the Carnatic. The ed last session, and was, therefore, wil-court of directors were quite distinct from ling to accede to every motion for papers, the secret committee, which was not rethat could enable the house to decide upon sponsible even for, such papers as had its the whole case. Neither would any friend own signature. of his noble relation give any opposition to Mr. Tierney would not object to the re the production of such information. But printing of the papers which had been be it was his opinion, that all the papers fore produced, and agreed that that house should be reprinted, and with that view he was the dernier resort in such cases. should feel it his duty to move, as well he lamented that the subject had been now for those omitted by the hon. baronet, as brought forward, as he could see no good for any others that might be necessary for that could result from it. It had before the elucidation of the transaction. He been properly brought forward, and he wished the house to consider the situation lamented that it had not then been proceedof his noble relation with this charge hanged in. He begged of the house to coning six years over him. It appeared by the sider the consequence. The subject was papers, that the court of directors had sent one of the deepest importance, particularout instructions to take possession of the ly with a view to the transfer of property, Carnatic, at the commencement of the which had taken place since the transacwar with Tippoo Sultan, and not to restore tion which had been adverted to. But, it to the nabob. It was rather extraordi- at the same time, he admitted that even nary, therefore, that a charge should be the inconvenience that might result from brought for a transaction commanded and the disturbance of property, ought not to approved by the court of directors, and deter the house, if it was called upon, from sanctioned by his majesty and by act of investigating the case, and applying its parliament. censures where censure was due. He was Mr. R. Thornton complained of the ac-sorry that the hou. baronet had not mencusations thrown out against the directors tioned more distinctly whom he intended without documents on the table to warrant to accuse. He admitted that the board of them. He regretted the delay which had controul was responsible for the secret comtaken place, but maintained that no blame mittee, but he denied that this committee rested with the directors. The reasons was such a nullity as some might suppose given by the right hon. gent. over the way from the description of it which had that (Mr. Sheridan), for his abandoning the case, night been given, and he cautioned gentledid not appear to him satisfactory. When men against speaking of it in these terms, he had brought forward the question, he as they might, by these means, propagate thought he was going hand in hand with an opinion that it was useless. He gave him, but he soon found that he himself was no opinion respecting the merits of the to be accused. There were some points transactions. He agreed to the motion of rewith respect to the government in India printing the former papers; but it was doubtthat required the interference of that house, ful whether the others could be granted, till which was the dernier resort in such cases. the hon. baronet should state what they But the court of directors were not the were, and till he had an opportunity of proper persons to become accusers. If examining whether they could be produced they put themselves forward in this way, without detriment to the public service. they might do a great deal of mischief to Lord Folkestone contended, that with our interests in India. From the nature respect to the assumption of the govern❤ of their situation, it was not expedient in ment of the Carnatic, blame lay some any view that they should come prominent- where, and that it was a matter of serious ly forwards, unless assured of effectual sup-investigation to ascertain where all the port. The hon. baronet (sir J. Anstruther) censure of that most extraordinary revoluhar himself before gone a considerable tion should devolve. The hon. baronet YOL. VIII. SU

had been pressed to state distinctly his ob- fore, in the present stage of the business, imject in calling for those papers; he did possible for him distinctly to pledge himnot think this fair; it might be impossible self, further than avowing it as his intenfor the hon. baronet distinctly to state his tion to submit a motion committing the abject, until he had been previously fur-house to a censure of the East-India comnished with the necessary evidence by those pany, or its servants, in the assumption of papers; but before that evidence should be the government of the Carnatic. The hon. Jurnished, he thought it a subject of too baronet concluded with an appeal to the great magnitude to warrant any member feelings of the house, in which he alluded in distinctly pledging himself to a specific to the melancholy fate of the deposed charge. prince, who, he could prove, had perished in a dungeon.

Sir A. Wellesley explicitly denied that the prince, as stated by the hon. baronet, was imprisoned in a dungeon, or died by any other than natural causes. He thought it became a gentleman of the hon. baronet's profession, to be more cautious in ma

Mr. Hiley Addington begged gentlemen to recollect, that there had been more papers relative to India called for, and produced in the last session of the late parliament, than for six sessions before; he was entirely of opinion, that in calling for papers upon any subject, the object should be distinctly stated; he acquitted the hon.king such charges. baronet of being actuated by any sinister Sir T. Turton maintained that the papers motives of party or vanity in bringing fully bore him out in his assertion, though forward his present motion, and praised he did not in the least implicate lord Welthe manly and ingenuous conduct of the lesley in that dark transaction. gallant general (Wellesley) in every question relating to Indian enquiry.

Mr. Fuller thought the enquiry should be fully gone into.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, February 27.

Mr. S. Stanhope thought it a most extra- Mr. Sheridan, while he acquitted in the fulordinary mode of opposing the hon. baro-lest manner the noble lord (Wellesley), had net's motion, by refusing to assent to the not a doubt upon his mind, that the young production of the papers called for, until prince came to his death by foul and exthe object had been distinctly stated, traordinary means.-The motion was then which object the papers in question were put and carried. alone to ascertain. He complained of a radical defect in the present state of the government in India, and knew not whether more governments had been subverted by it [INSOLVENT DEBTORS.] Lord Holland in the East or by Bonaparte in the West. presented a petition from the debtors conSir T'. Turton, in reply, said that when fined in the king's bench prison, praying it appeared from the arguments upon both for such relief as to the house should seem sides, that it was a question whether the meet. His lordship observed, that, after court of directors approved or disappro- what passed last session respecting this ved of the conduct of their servants in In-subject, it was almost needless for him to dia, he did not think a stronger argument say, that it was not his intention to prothan this very doubt could possibly be ad- pose any bill for the relief of insolvent vanced in favour of the motion he had submitted to the house; his object was substantial justice, and in the pursuit of that, however deficient in other respects, he should not be found defective in zeal, diligence, and perseverance. As to the voluminous papers with which he had been threatened from the other side, if such papers contributed in the least degree to the defence of the accused, he himself should gladly second the motion for their production. He had been urged to state distinctly the object of his motion; it was impossible to state in a case of such magnitude, on whom the evidence found in these papers might especially bear; and it was, there

debtors. The petition, indeed, did not pray for any such bill, but rather for a general law respecting debtor and creditor, by the operation of which they might be restored to their families. Of the necessity of some law of this nature there could be no doubt; and he was happy that a noble friend of his, who had formerly cal led the attention of the house to this important subject, had again applied his mind to its consideration; and that, in another place, a part of the subject had been taken up by a gentleman of distin guished talents and benevolence. From these circumstances, he looked forward with the greatest satisfaction to the adop

tion of some measure respecting this sub-him to convey all that he wished to say ject, which would have the effect of reino upon the subject, he had on the preceding ving many of those evils which at present day put down his ideas upon paper, and, existed. He should merely now move with their lordships' permission, he would that the petition do lie on the table.-Or- read them. His lordship read to the house dered. several observations similar in purport to [TAXATION.] The Earl of Warwick those be had previously made, and afterwards entreated the indulgence of the house, stated his plan, which proceeded upon the whilst he endeavoured to state to their calculation of 12,000,000 of population; lordships the outline of a plan which he then taking 3,000,000; at 6d. per day expenwished to propose, with a view of introdu- diture, the amount would be, for 3 millions,at cing a more equal and equitable system of 6d. per day, 27,375,000l. ; for one million, at taxation, At a period like the present, 1s. per day, 18,250,000l.; at 2s. per day, when the great aggrandizement and insa- 36,500,000l.; at 3s. per day, 54,750,000/.; tiable ambition of France called upon this at 4s. per day, 73,000,000l.; at 5s. per 10s. per day, country for every exertion that could be day, 91,250,000l.; at made, in order to carry on the war with 182,500,000l.; at 128. per day, 219,000,000l. ; vigour and effect, when peace was placed at 15s. per day, 273,750,000l.; at 20s. per at a distance not to be calculated upon, day, 365,000,000l.; total, 1,341,375,0007. and when all Europe looked to this coun. The classes up to 5s. inclusive, his lordtry as their great stay and hope, it was of ship reckoned the employed, and the other the utmost importance to consider how that classes the employers. Taking the populaamount of revenue which must necessarily tion at 12,500,000, there would remain be had, could be raised with the least pres- 500,000 persons, whom he would suppose sure upon the people. He objected to the to spend 1000l. a year each, amounting to present complicated system of taxation, 500,000,000l. ; but even supposing that to as not calculated to attain the desired ob- be the case, he would make a present of ject, and as proceeding upon erroneous da- that amount to their lordships, and rely ta; at present, whilst taxation pressed upon the remainder, a small per centage heavily upon some classes, others in a upon which would produce considerably great degree escaped. His great object more than the property tax did at present, was that it should be borne equally and whilst it would fall equitably upon every equitably by all. To effect this, he had one, and each would at once know what formed a plan which was totally novel, and he was to pay. He thought the best mode which had never yet either been spoken or of proceeding would be to refer his plan written upon. The more he had consi- to a committee, and concluded by making dered this plan, the more he was convinced a motion to that effect. of its efficiency, and of the inadequacy of Lord Grenville thought, that in point of the present system of taxation. He ob- form the motion could not be entertained jected to making property the criterion of by the house, as there was no paper before taxation, because it was difficult to define their lordships which could, consistently what property was; he would only consider with the forms of the house, be referred to property by means of its sign, labour. a committee. With respect to the plan The great objection to the tax upon pro- proposed by the noble lord, he had consiperty was, that whilst it got at some de-derable doubts of its efficiency. Expenscriptions of property, persons engaged in diture was undoubtedly taken as one of commerce, in manufactures, in profes- the criterions of direct taxation, it besions, and in various speculations, made ing the sign of wealth; but where the exigenwhat returns of property they pleased, and cies of the country required a large sum to paid accordingly. He wished that taxa-be raised, the more the amount of taxation. tion should be equal and equitable, and at necessary to be raised was diffused in differthe same time general and compulsory, ent channels, it would be found that the less not partial and voluntary. He had made was the pressure upon the people. It was several calculations for the purpose of es- unquestionably an object of the greatest tablishing the efficiency of his plan, the intportance where burthens were to be imresult of which had astonished him, and posed upon the people, to make them fall would no doubt surprize their lordships; as lightly as possible, and the great advan the basis he took was expenditure. Being tage of indirect taxation was, that it fell to doubtful whether his voice would enable a certain extent upon articles, respecting

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