such committee. He was sorry, as the noble lord adhered to notices, that he did not, on some former day, give notice of this petition, and then there could be no reason for the delay that noble lord now into the general merits of the petition, he had no hesitation in saying that there was one part of the prayer with which he could not concur. Indeed, it would be quite unusual to introduce counsel upon such an occasion. But independently of custom, the house must feel that it would be inconsistent with its dignity to have counsel at its bar, discussing the nature of its own privileges, aud the means of preserving them. That part of the prayer of the petition, therefore, he should feel it his duty to oppose. He again said, that he should wish the noble lord to proceed at once upon this important question. nature without a previous notice. Such such motion, he would then suggest to the notice being always usual upon grave occa-noble lord the propriety of appointing a sions, he confessed that he was not ready day for the house to resolve itself into to enter into this question at present: nor did he believe the parties interested for the petition were ready either. For neither he nor they could have expected that the house would have felt disposed to deviate from its general practice in this particular instance.proposed. Without entering at present Mr. Sheridan felt it his duty to abstain at present from any remark upon this extraordinary petition. Indeed, if he were now to enter into its allegations, he very much apprehended that he might be led to speak of it in warmer terms of scorn and contempt than would be quite becoming, after the order which the house had just made. His hope and desire was, that the consideration of this subject would be proceeded upon as soon as possible, and he sincerely wished that the noble lord might collect and present petitions, containing all the charges circulated against him, either during the progress, or since the termination of the Westminster election. He would be glad to have the whole of that transaction brought before the house, and fully investigated. It was not one act alone, but every part of the proceeding Lord Folkestone was not aware that it that it was his wish to have discussed. He had ever been the practice to give any nohad no reason to be afraid of any thing tice of the intention to present a petition. that could be proved. It was the loose al-If such had been the custom, the noble legation which originated in falsehood, secretary would not have had to express which was propagated by craft, and shrunk from enquiry, that could alone affect his interest. With regard to the charges against him, contained in the petition before the house, he did not know whether it would be decent to say that every word of them was a gross falsehood. But this he knew, that he was fully prepared to shew at the bar, if permitted to prove, that all the witnesses examined at the bar were forsworn, but that, he said, would be matter for future observation. The Speaker observed, that as the house had already ordered the petition to lie ou the table, it was now too late to make any other order. any regret on this occasion. The only notice which he understood custom to require, he had not neglected in this instance, namely, that of apprising the individual concerned of his intention to present such a petition. For he himself left a note the preceding day at the house of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Sheridan) acquainting him of his intention of presenting the petition this day. With respect to the nature of his future proceeding, he felt some difficulty in determining, in consequence of the Lord Howick rather wished the house declaration which the house had just heard should not separate without some farther from the noble secretary of state, as he proceeding upon the subject of the petition. had calculated upon the necessity and As to the doctrine of notices, he did not propriety of counsel to examine the witnesconceive it by any means so sacred as the ses. This new difficulty rendered him of noble lord professed to think. It certain-course still less capable of proceeding with ly was not a settled practice, or a standing the promptitude which the noble secretary order, although it had of late been general-professed to desire. At this desire he could ly observed. This practice, therefore, not help feeling some astonishment, consineed not be adhered to on the present occasion. His desire was to avoid any unnecessary delay, and that the noble lord should at once move to refer the petition to the committee of privileges; and after dering how much the doctrine of notices had been often insisted upon,recollecting indeed, that the neglect of previous notice had been sometimes deemed a fatal objection to the adoption of a motion. But to return to the noble secretary's wish for proceeding | tion as to the charges alleged in the petition. that night, the fact was, that such a course [NEW PLAN OF FINANCE.] Lord Caswould serve to render the whole business nu- tlereagh, before he proposed to name anogatory, and would indeed operate to stifle the ther day for the consideration of the Fienquiry, as none of the necessary witnesses nancial Resolutions he had laid before the were then in attendance, nor could, perhaps, house, wished to take this opportunity of be immediately found. He therefore should submitting three other resolutions which he postpone the subject until the next day. proposed to bring under its consideration. Lord Howick, influenced by what had He did not wish to enter into any detail fallen from the chair, did not mean to press that could provoke discussion or call for any farther proceeding that night. But, reply. His object was, simply to state the in order to obviate the possibility of any object of the new resolutions he meant to misconception or misconstruction arising propose. He felt himself called upon to out of what the noble lord had said relative bring forward these resolutions, and par to the idea of rendering this business nuga- ticularly in consequence of certain expres tory, or stifling enquiry, he thought it neces- sions which fell from an hon. gent. (Mr. sary to repeat the substance of what he H. Thornton), whose opinions were much had before stated. In urging the noble looked up to on all subjects, but particulord to move at once for referring the pe-larly on subjects of this nature. That hon. tition on the table to a committee of privi-gent.had complainedthat his (lord C.'s) resoleges, he by no means proposed that the lutions instituted comparisons between the noble lord should at once be called on to noble lord's system and the old mode (Mr. produce his witnesses, and go into the en- Pitt's) of raising the expences within the quiry; on the contrary, he had distinctly year, and not with either of the plans he stated, that a future day should be ap- proposed to substitute, and that this was pointed for the committee to sit. There- not fair at a time when it was universally fore, no expression whatever had escaped agreed that further taxation ought to be him which could warrant any man in sup-abstained from. Two of the resolutions posing that he wished the noble lord to be he had now to propose, were to shew that taken by surprise, or hurried into the en- the noble lord's plan would bear as little quiry without ample preparation. Now, comparison with the modifications of it in order that full time should be allowed which he had proposed, as with the old systhe noble lord to prepare and bring for- tem. The third resolution was to shew, ward his witnesses, he proposed that the that by the noble lord's mode of managing further consideration of this subject should the sinking fund, more injury would be be postponed till Monday. done to the stockholders, than by the former system, or either of the plans proposed by him. He wished to make a few verbal amendments in the resolutions now before the house, in order to put the house fully in possession of his views. Upon the Mr. Adam wished to know the precise fullest consideration, he saw no reason to nature of the noble lord's motion, in order alter the opinion he had at first formed of that gentlemen should have an opportunity the noble lord's plan, and his objections to previously to consider it: for with all the it were rather confirmed and increased, desire that he felt to have a charge of such than diminished.-The further consideraaggravated character probed to the bottom, tion of all the resolutions was then destill he might feel himself under the neces-ferred till Monday fortnight. The whole sity of negativing the noble lord's motion, of the Resolutions moved by the noble lord should it prove to be incorrect in its nature. were as follow: Lord Folkestone felt himself unable to give a precise answer to the learned gent.'s question, particularly in consequence of what had fallen from the noble secretary of state. He therefore could not at present say distinctly what would be the form of his motion; but he had no objection to state generally, that the object of it would be to have witnesses called to the bar for examina Lord Folkestone expressed his willingness to adopt the suggestion of the noble secretary of state, by postponing till Monday his intended motion upon the subject of Mr. Paull's petition. No. 1.-"That it is proposed by the New Plan of Finance, brought forward by the chancellor of the exchequer, that the annual excesses of the present sinking fund, above the interest of the debt charged upon it in any given year, should be declared to be at the disposal of parliament, and applicable to the public service. And it appears that the aggregate produce of Suppose a Peace Establishment at £.15,000,000: Land and Malt £.2,750,000 3,500,000 £.6,700,000 - 6,700,000 Annual Deficiency to be provided for by New Loans or Taxes amount to - The Deficiency to be provided for, in like manner, would be 8,300,000 20,000,000 13,300,000 the said excesses, between the years 1816] that event be entirely remitted; in which and 1826, will amount in the whole to case (exclusive of any mortgage at the time 11,122,809/. (E.)*—That annuities to the affecting the residue of the war taxes) the amount of 683,0621. will fall in between portion of them which might be continued, the years 1807 and 1826. (K.)-That it without material prejudice to the public is proposed by the New Plan of Finance, to revenue beyond the war, must be wholly charge, on the aggregate produce of the insufficient to equalize the revenue with the said excesses of the sinking fund, and upon peace expenditure. the said annuities, the interest and sinking fund of 204,200,000/. supplementary loans (B.); and to impose, in aid of the said aggregate produce, between the years 1810 and 1816, new taxes, to the amount of 2,051,000l. (C.)—That, in addition to the supplementary loans so to be provided for, it is proposed by the New Plan to raise war loans to the amount of 292,000,0007. on the credit of the war taxes, amounting to 21,000,000l. (C.)That the war and supplementary loans of each year, added to so much of the war taxes as may remain unmortgaged, will produce in each year respectively the sum of 32,000,000l. (B.)-That, in order to raise the said sum of 32,000,0007. in each year, without mortgaging the war taxes, there would be required, in addition to the 21,000,000l. of war taxes, an annual loan of 11 millions only.-That, without any mortgage upon the war taxes, (supposing the charge and the permanent provision for the interest and sinking fund of the same, to arise proportionably in the respective years) an annual loan of 11 mil. lions might be provided for, for nearly 19 years, by the application of the same funds; viz. the annuities, amounting to 683,062/.; the excesses of the sinking. fund, amounting to 11,122,8097.; and, the new taxes intended to be imposed by the New Plan, amounting to 2,051,000, on which the supplementary loans are to be charged." No. 3.-"That the New Plan will require loans to a greater amount, to be raised in each year, than would be required if the usual system of borrowing were persevered in. By the present System, in order to cover a War Expenditure of £.32,000,000 There would be wanted in each year, in aid of the twentyone Millions War Taxes, a Loan of 11,000,000 Amounting, in twenty years, to 220,000,000 NEW PLAN: £. 292,000,000 Amount of War Loans, for twenty Total Total Excess by the New Plan 204,200,000 £.496,200,000 £.276,200,000 No. 2.-"That the proposed system of Finance proceeds gradually to mortgage, for 14 years, the whole of the war taxes for Average Annual Excess by New Plan 13,800,000 the interest of loans in war.-That these taxes are not generally of a nature which can, with propriety, be so pledged as several of them (such as the tax on tonnage and exports, and the duties on tea and on spirits) must probably either be modified, or reduced, on a peace; whilst it is. proposed by the said Plan, that the property tax, amounting to 11,500,000. should in *Note.-The letters refer to the tables in the printed papers, in which the price of the 3 per cent. stock is taken at 60. Amount of Sinking Fund, under the - Amount of ditto under the New Sys tem, will be, in 1826 26,901,360 £. 17,966,318 Increase in 20 years 644,421 No. 6.-"That the Ways and Means, proposed by the New Plan, to prevent the necessity of imposing new taxes to any considerable amount, viz. the expiring annuities, together with the excesses of So that the New Plan gives only the sinking fund above the interest of the 26,901,360l. sinking fund on a debt of unredeemed debt, are equally applicable, 455,537,932.; whilst the present system pro tanto, to mitigate their increase under would give the larger sinking fund of any other mode of raising loans which may 27,115,8814. on the smaller debt of be decided on. The means proposed by 270,443,3057. (N.)-The proportion of the the New Plan, of defraying the interest sinking fund to the whole debt.would be, un- and sinking fund of the supplementary der the present Plan, in 1826, above onetenth. The proportion of the sinking fund to the whole debt, under the New Pian, will be in 1826, about one-seventeenth. (N.)-The sinking fand, under the present plan, above stated at 27,115,8817. continues to increase at compound interest, after the year 1826, till the whole debt is redeemed. The Sinking Fund,under the New Plan,having attained its maximum of 28,155,358/. in the year 1820, descends to 26,901,360. in the year 1826; and must continue to decline after that period, so long as the excesses shall be deducted." No. 5." That an Increase of Charges for the interest and sinking fund of loans, for the 20 years, must take place under the New Plan, compared with the like charge, loans are as follows: Produce of the Excess of the Sinking Fund be- New Permanent Taxes proposed by 683,062 9,051,000 f. 13,856,871 Charge of Supplementary Loans, Vide Res. 8. A. Charge for the total amount of Loans, at the consolidated into a common debt; and rate of 11,000,000l. a year, under the pre- the deficiency, on the peace establishment, sent System, at 733,3331. per annum, for Interest and Sinking Fund; the Expiring Annui-must be provided for either by fresh taxes, ties not deducted (K) £14,666,660 or fresh loans," - As a Fund to supply this Charge,the Ways and Means, as above, for raising the Interest and Sinking Fund of the Supplementary Loans, may be applied, pro tanto Remains to be provided for, in order to cover the charge, exclusive of the charge of distribution, as above - - 13,856,871 £.809,789 No 8." That the sum of 11 millions a year, required in aid of the 21 millions War Taxes, to complete the War Expenditure of 32 millions, may be raised (should the principle of applying the excesses of the Sinking Fund to the public service be decided on) according to the following mode, without mortgaging the war taxes; It therefore appears, that the means re- without swelling the loans to be raised quired to be applied under the New System, within the year to the inordinate amount to defray the charge for Interest and Sink- of 32 millions sterling; without rendering ing Fund on the Supplementary Loans new taxes of any materially greater amount alone, would, with the addition of taxes to necessary than it is proposed to lay on by the amount of 370,2727., and the charge of the New System, and without making so distribution, as above, defray the total considerable an addition to the debt as will charges of the loans required to complete be made, should the New System be carried the fund of 32,000,000l. annually for war into execution. expenditure, without the necessity of any incumbrance whatever upon the War Taxes. No. 7.-"That the comparative Effects which would be produced on the Public Income by the two Systems on return of peace, and on the formation of a peace establishment, are as follows: UNDER THE PRESENT PLAN: There would be no charge whatever upon any part of the war taxes. The whole 21 millions would remain free. The property tax, or whatever portion of the other war taxes were not required towards making an adequate provision for the peace establishment, might be immediately remitted, leaving that resource unpledged, and available on the recurrence of war. The sum required as above, to pro- Deficiency £. 13,856,871 809,789 The deficiency of 809,7897. exceeding only by 370,2721. the charges for supplementary loans, would remain an additional charge to be provided for, in addition to the charge of equalizing the ways and means with the annual demands within the respective years.-As the charges upon a loan of 11 millions would, in each year, amount to 733,333/., if it should be thought fit, in aid of the annuities, to raise, in the first 9 years, only the precise amount of taxes proposed by the New Plan, until the excesses of the sinking fund shall arise in 1816; the difference between the above funds, and the annual charge of 733,3337. may be added as it arises in the said period, to the loan of the year; the interest and sinking fund thereon being defrayed, in the first instance, out of the consolidated fund, till otherwise replaced." UNDER THE NEW SYSTEM; When peace takes place, a considerable part, if not the whole of the war taxes, will have been mortgaged. In the latter case, there will only remain a clear revenue of 6,700,000/. immediately applicable to support the charges of a peace establishment. By table R. it appears that in 1826, the excesses of the war, and present sinking fund, will, if peace be then made, amount to 10,720,7301. If this sum shall be then preferably applied to liberate a part of the property tax mortgaged for the war debt, the remainder of the property tax, and all the war taxes, will become per- follows: manent taxes, and part of the consolidated fund, and be mortgaged, like the other FIRST CASE. Supposing peace to take parts of that fund, for the redemption of place at the end of the ninth year, that is, the war debt, and the present debt thus in 1815: VOL. VIII. No. 8.-(A.)" That the comparative effects of the Plan in Res. 8. as contrasted with the New System, may be stated as 3 T |