priation act. If he took the challenge right, he should state the case of the grant last session to the family of lord Nelson, when the grant of an immediate sum was inserted in the appropriation act, and the prospective annuity included in a separate bill,

Mr. Bankes justified the course he had recommended upon a former occasion, namely, that the arrears should be provided for by a clause in the annuity bill. That course he looked upon as the best, in order to bring the matter fully under the consideration of that house, as well as to leave to the other house an opportunity of exercising their judgment upon the whole of the case. He thought it unfair to place the upper house in a situation in which it could not exercise its constitutional judgment upon a grant of public money, without incurring the odium of obstructing the public service. He professed himself as strong a friend of the privileges of this house as any man could be, but he thought these privileges would be best maintained by abstaining from invasion of the rights of that other house. He lamented the influence of private canvi, fo by such influence alone could the majorities in the present case be accounted for. He took a review of the prece dents, and contended that so far as they applied they were in favour of the course proposed by the chancellor of the exchequer. On all these grounds he heartily concurred in the motion of the chancellor of the exchequer.

Mr. Ponsonby denied that this was a question of interpretation of contract. On the contrary it was a mere question of fact; fact confirmed over and over again by the votes of the house in favour of the claim. The chancellor of the exchequer in giving the recommendation of the crown to the petition, shewed a disposition to leave this business to the judgment of the house. Bat as soon as that judgment was pronounced, he wished to make it a nullity. He thought it an odd argument to say, that the house should, in deference to another branch of the legis lature, abstain from taking the course which was calcu lated to give its own resolution the bes effect. The gene. ral appropriation act, containing the grants of the year, was the best vehicle to carry the grant to the lords. He challenged any bady to instince a proceeding equally vio lent as that now proposed since the Revolution.

Mr. Rose, from papers which he held in his band, maintained there were a majority of cases of separate grants passed by bill, and not by clauses in the appropria

tion act. He argued at some length on the propriety of making a separate bill on the present occasion.

Mr. Fuller maintained, that the constitutional jealousy of the interference of the house of lords with money bills, ought to be insisted on, so as not to allow a letter to be touched; and called upon the house to maintain its decision, five times pronounced.

Sir Fran is Burdett thought it incumbent on the house to maintain its decision so frequently and so clearly pronounced. He excused Mr. Palmer for attempting by indiret, as well as direct means, to establish his improvements, which were introduced into the post-office under the hostility of every person in that office. He expatiated on the ingenuity of Mr. Palmer's invention, and the great amount of the beneficial effects produced by it.

Mr. Burton denied that the general merits of the case of Mr. Paliner formed the question now before the house. The only question was, how the vote passed by this house, and to be adhered to so far as this house was concerned, should be sent to the lords, whether in the appropriation act, or in a separate bill. He maintained that all the circumstances of the case particularly called for a separate

bill.

Mr. Whitbread ridiculed the tenacity shewn by his majesty's ministers for the privileges of the lords in this measure, when they had so largely invaded those privileges in others. Let the appropriation act take its chance. The honour of the house if once lost was irretrievable.

Mr. Canning said, the merits of Mr. Palmer's case formed no part of the question before the house. The only question was, in what manner the house should carry its decision into effect. The precedents were not all on one side. There were some for the course proposed by the chancellor of the exchequer, and the house was free to follow the line that should please it. He censured the objection' to referring the whole question to the lords, because that house could examine witnesses on oath to the matters of fact. It should seem the honourable gentle a thought matters of fact were not to be inquired into on oth, but that matters of opinion and conjecture were. He insisted on the constitutional impropriety of send nr the present business to the lords, otherwise than in a separate bill.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer denied in his reply, that giving the recommendation of the crown so as to bring

a measure under the consideration of the house, implied an obligation to support it in its progress through the house. He also viadicated his conduct in proposing this bill on the knowledge that the house of lords was examining the agreement with Mr. Palmer. He went into a detailed explanation of the whole of his conduct in this case, an swering the various comments urged against him in the course of the debate.

After a short explanation from Sir T. Turton, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr. S. Bourne, the house. divided:

Several bills were brought up from the commons, and read a first time; among others, the coffee excise, and the coffee-customs duties reduction bills.

The bills on the table were forwarded in their respective stages, after which the house adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FRIDAY, JUNE 24.

The report of the commissioners meeting bill was received and agreed to, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

A message from the lords announced their lordships' assent to the Brazils trade bill, the Irish spirits bill, and the white herring fishery bill.

After a short conversation between Sir C. Pole and Mr. Rose, the reprisal bill was read a third time and passed.

Mr. Whitbread brought up the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the effects that had been produced in the country by the continuance of lotteries. Or dered to be printed.

The cinque ports bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Sir S. Romilly, an account was ordered to be laid before the house of the number of persons that have been brought to irial for felonious offences, during the last eleven years, distinguishing the convictions from the acquittals.

STATE OF THE EMPIRE.

Mr. Wharton brought up the report of the committee on the appropriation bill. The amendments were read a first and second time. On the motion, that they be agreed to,

Mr. Whitbread rose, and expressed himself to the fol lowing effect: Mr. Speaker, as the session appears hastening to a close, I have for some time been desirous of puting to his majesty's ministers a variety of questions, with respect to the various in erual and external relations of the empire, which, it appears to me, it is more convenient to state collectively, than to make them the subjects of - separate questions to be submitted to debate in this house. For this purpose, sir, I should have availed myself of the opportunity which the vote of credit afforded me, had I not been apprehensive, from circumstances of which the house must be aware, that such a proceeding at that time would have led to a discussion which as to be deprecated. But, sir, by the usages of the house of commons, many occasions arise in which questions of the nature to which I have alluded, may be put to his majesty's ministers, and I believe that the reception of the report of the appropriation bill is one of these occasions. I shall therefore take advantage of it. In the first place, sir, I must observe, that the present session has been a very laborious one, and that it has extended to very great length; as much business has been done in the course of it, as was perhaps ever done in any preceding session of parliament. Not only, sir, has the attendance of members in the house itself, been most heavy and most assiduous, and at the same time most highly creditable to themselves, but also their attendance ou committees assembled upon matters of the deepest national importance. By the committee on West India trade, a report has been made, on which a bill was introduced into parliament, of which, as it has now become a law, I shall only say, that I hope and wish it may cons VOL. III.1808.

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duce to afford the relief to the West India commerce predicted from it; and I trust, sir, that the subsequent reports which have been presented from the same com mittee, will meet with a serious investigation, and that every effort will be made to remedy the evils which they point out. The committee on the affairs of the East India company have made a great progress in the execution of the task entrusted to them. I think the public has a right to expect that the accounts between the govern ment and the East India company are finally closed; and that the latter can have no further claim on the former. Long as the session of parliament has been, it certainly has been somewhat shortened in consequence of the recommendation of the right honourable gentleman opposite to me (Mr. Dundas), to the company, not to press for any assistance by loan or otherwise during the present session. I trust. sir, the right honourable gentleman near him consented to this postponement on a deliberate view of the subject, and that he will not be disposed, during the recess, to give way upon any alleged motives of temporary convenience. Early in the next session the subject may be brought under our consideration, and it will then be for the house of commons to decide upon it. Sir, the result of the labours of another committee, of which I had honour to be chairman (the lottery committee), has been this day presented to the house. Sir, I call the attention of the right honourable gentleman opposite, and if it were possible, I would call the attention of all his successors in office, to that report. When the evidence shall be read, it will disclose a scene of fraud and misery, which it appears to me to be impossible that any chancellor of the exchequer can contemplate without a determination of abandoning that ruinous scheme of finance by which such evils ate engendered. Another committee, sir, has this session, for the third time, been instituted, the committee of finance. From this committee I fear the public has little or no chance of deriving any information during the present session, if I may judge from the answer made on a recent evening by the honourable and worthy chairman of that committee, to a question which I took the liberty of proposing to him. Whatever may be the rea sons which caused this delay, they are not now to be ascertained. The honourable chairman informed us, that as far as lay in him, the report was in readiness to be pre