Supremacy.

a certain change in the law: we desire to express our concurrence in that change, and I think nothing could be more proper or loyal. The oath itself has nothing to do with the Church. The rubric says simply "the oath," and leaves the civil power to deal with it. As to the question of publishing banns, the rubric was certainly very doubtful, and I could not undertake to decide whether the words "after the Second Lesson" refer to the whole clause or only the last part of it. It is fair to say that Lord Mansfield had decided that the proper time for the banns was after the Nicene Creed; but other Judges did not agree with his lordship. If any one would like to see the case fully argued out they will find it in two little books, Procter on the Common Prayer and Wilks on the Law of Banns. We are trustees for our

brother clergy, and are bound to defend the privileges of our order and of this house. We act in the spirit of true loyalty, and in expressing hearty loyalty to the Queen, I do not think we are "acting like boys,” as my friend opposite remarked. Nothing would be more boyish and absurd than to be running a-tilt against the supreme authority.

SIR H. THOMPSON-I never used the word "boys."

ARCHDEACON SIR G. PREVOST-I do not mean to say my rev. friend used the word; but at the same time, if we are Churchmen and clergymen, we are Englishmen; and we have a right always to discuss the conduct of every department of the Government, and of the responsible advisers of the Crown.

ARCHDEACON HALE-I quite agree with those who approve the removal of this oath, which as it stands is a grievous interruption to a most solemn service. If we put upon record our thanks and approval of the change suggested to us, it will not only be an act of grace, but at the same time will show that what was done had our approval. I did not, however, quite agree with Mr. Joyce in the first instance, as it appeared to me the Act of Parliament does not alter the rubric, but simply relieves the Bishops from administering the oath at that time. I, however, beg to make a suggestion, that if the resolution expressed our thanks to the Commissioners for proposing the change, and thanks to Parliament for accepting it, that would protect our privileges, and be the best course to pursue.

The REV. M. W. MAYOW-I was startled yesterday when the Dean of Westminster said this Act of Parliament made an alteration in the ordinal of the Church of England. I was ready, however, yesterday, to alter the 36th Canon, because its reference to us showed that our claims had not been overlooked, and because I saw that consenting to that alteration was distinct from altering the Ordination Service. But we have now the other question before us; and this is not simply whether we approve of the change, but whether it be right to alter in effect, without the consent of the Church, one of its rubrics, which is not only statute law but canon law also. The statement that later acts repeal former ones is no doubt true; but the law is very jealous as to such repeals. It is, I think, set down by Blackstone that a law is hardly ever repealed without special recital;-at any rate that "later positive words do not take away the effect of prior negative words." Blackstone says, likewise, that "the law always endeavours

Supremacy. to give its due effect to every word of an act, and it is only when they so clash that they cannot be construed together, that the later act is supposed to have a repealing power." It appears to me, moreover, that it is important for us to express our concurrence in such a way as to show we have taken counsel amongst ourselves. It is a mere opinion of the Dean of Westminster's that we have run counter to equity, justice, and reason in other matters, and I do not admit that our claim to be heard on constitutional questions like these is barred by anything which has been done by us before. We have the recorded opinion of the Attorney-General in his place in Parliament that the Convocation is an integral part of the Constitution of England. We ought, therefore, to put ourselves right in this matter, and, by agreeing to this motion, show that we have given sufficient practical consideration to it to keep up the constitutional privileges of this house.

It

SIR H. THOMPSON-Although it is somewhat irregular thus to amend a former act, I entirely concur with the motion. We have liberty of speech given to us, and we may talk about anything we please; and to use what language we please as to any act of the Legislature is perfectly lawful. We should remember, however, that although "all things may be lawful, yet all things are not expedient." I desire not to wound the feelings of anybody, but I wish to express myself in the strongest possible terms of the imprudence which has marked some of the proceeedings of this Convocation. may have been lawful, but a more inexpedient course, or one more calculated to alienate the affections of the laity, or weaken the authority of this house, I cannot conceive. With regard to the illustration which has been put before us, derived from the rubric in the Marriage Service, I have only to observe that orders of that kind are only good when they conform to the common sense of the public. To me it appears that common sense requires that the banns should be published in all churches at the same period of the service, so that the people may know and have their ears open, if the publication of banns is to be of any use at all; and now that the Prayer for the Church Militant and the Offertory are so little used, the customary publication after the Second Lesson is the best. I do not pay any superstitious reverence to the rubrics; I prefer rather the apostolic injunction-"Try all things: hold fast that which is good." The present matter before us is one which is especially placed by the rubrics in the hands of the Bishops. They were in their places in the House of Lords when this bill was passed, and they do not appear to have raised any objection to it at all. And I beg to point out that the oath is not taken out of the services altogether, but is to be administered either before or after. It appears to me therefore, and I hope my reverend friend will not press that part of his motion which proposes an address to the Crown; I should very much prefer the suggestion of the Archdeacon of London, and do no more than express our gratitude to the Legislature. To speak of an address to the Crown when after all the rubric is not touched

LORD A. COMPTON-The resolution does not mention the rubric.

of Banns.

SIR H. THOMPSON-But the rubric is what is meant; and I do not like going one way and looking another. An address to the Crown on an occasion of this kind is really quite out of place. I have been very anxious with respect to our reform bill, and I have been at work to ascertain what is the tone and temper towards it of those who will have to sanction or reject it, and I am afraid we shall run a risk of hindering the completion of that measure by such a motion as that now proposed.

CANON WOODGATE—The Dean of Westminster has touched on an important principle, but although his objection is plausible, it is, in my opinion, an error to say that inasmuch as the rubrics are the act of the Legislature, it is not necessary to ask the consent of the Church to repeal a rubric. It is impossible to argue upon precedents which arose when Convocation was in abeyance, or (as in the case of the rubric in the Marriage Service, which is a curious anomaly) from anything that may have arisen from the miserable state in which the Church was during that Georgian era of Cimmerian darkness. When the Prayer for the Church Militant became generally disregarded, the locus standi of the rubric disappeared, and the custom arose of pubblishing the banns after the Second Lesson. If this rubric is to be repealed, it will relieve my conscience to know it had the sanction of Convocation, as Mr. Joyce has proposed.

The motion was eventually put in the following terms, and agreed to nemine contradicente :

That this house desires to express its hearty acceptance of a bill passed by both Houses of Parliament, and now awaiting the Royal Assent, providing for the removal of the oath touching the Queen's supremacy from the body of the Ordination and Consecration Services, together with its thanks to the Legislature for a measure very agreeable to the Church.

The REV. J. W. JOYCE-I will now move this further resolution:-.

That this house respectfully requests the Upper House to take such measures as to it may seem fit for expressing the concurrence of the Synod of the Province of Canterbury in the measures above mentioned.

LORD A. COMPTON-I second it.

DR. WILLIAMS-I beg to move the following as an amendment:That the Prolocutor be requested to communicate the former of the foregoing resolutions of this house to his Grace the President and their lordships of the Upper House. ARCHDEACON DENISON-I Second that.

This amendment was by leave of the house withdrawn, and the further resolution was put and carried upon a show of hands-the numbers in its favour being 10; against it, 7.

THE PUBLICATION OF BANNS.

ARCHDEACON SIR G. PREVOST-The house may perhaps remember that there is a motion of mine upon the paper, of which the notice dates back so far as the session of 18th June, 1861, for an address to the Upper House "calling the attention of the Upper House to the operation of the Acts of Parliament by which the publication of banns and the celebration of marriages amongst members of the Church of England are regulated, and to certain inconveniences and evils con

nected therewith, especially to the evasions of the said acts by the practice of publishing banns in parishes other than those in which the parties to be married are then resident." At this late period of the session it would be perfectly useless to bring forward this motion, and with the consent of the house I will withdraw it. The evils of which I complain are no doubt well known to the house, and if I am spared to meet in another Convocation I will take an early opportunity of bringing the subject forward.

CANON HARVEY-It has occurred to me that it would be useful to have an inexpensive licence to be issued after one publication; as the present length of time required prevents in many cases the more modest and virtuous of the poorer classes from being married in their own parishes.

Motion, by leave of the house, withdrawn.

THE SUBSCRIPTION AND TWENTY-NINTH CANONS.

SIR H. THOMPSON-I am informed that the Clerical Subscription Bill has been returned to the House of Lords with amendments; if, therefore, the new 36th Canon were at once enacted, it might be at variance with the statute.

The PROLOCUTOR-I have two answers to Sir Henry Thompson. In the first place, we are here under orders from the Upper House; and in the next, I may say (though not officially), that I have every reason to believe the amendments will be readily accepted by the House of Lords.

SIR H. THOMPSON-And that they will be in agreement with our canon?

The PROLOCUTOR-Yes.

SIR H. THOMPSON We are going to pass another canon-the 29th, as amended. There is no doubt that a statement was made that our main wish was to have an alteration made with regard to the admissibility of parents to act as sponsors, and that the change of particeps into capax was something new. The canon has, therefore, been put back into its original form, so far as that part of it is concerned. The letter of the Secretary of State, however, goes on to say that if the change had related only to the age of the sponsors, so as merely to exclude children, it would have been no matter; but inasmuch as capax might have led the clergy to ask all sorts of questions, the Government did not like to put that power into their hands. I regret that we had not the letter of the Secretary of State before us when we were called upon to assent to the canon sent down to us from the Upper House.

ARCHDEACON HALE-What has fallen from Sir Henry Thompson shows that there ought to be a much more accurate following of the older practice of Convocation, in which there was always the freest and fullest communication between the Conciliares Regis and Convocation. We are slowly learning our duty, and I do hope that, Convocation ending as it now does, there will be no jealousy of the Crown on the part of its successor; and that our wisdom and

Prolocutor. prudence will in future entitle us to the confidence of her Majesty and her advisers.

THANKS TO THE PROLOCUTOR.

The DEAN OF NORWICH-Mr. Prolocutor, by the unanimous request of the house I rise to perform a duty which I could wish had fallen into abler hands, though as regards the goodwill with which it is to be performed there is no man here to whom I will yield. On this occasion, which is not merely the conclusion of a session but the end of the Convocation itself, I am authorised by the members present to offer you, Sir, our grateful thanks for the admirable manner in which you have filled the office of president of this house. (Cheers.) For four years you have occupied that chair, a portion of the time as Prolocutor, and the rest as the object of our own free and deliberate choice. I am sure I am speaking the sentiments of all present-and though they are few they represent the unanimous feelings of the entire body-(cheers)-I am speaking the sentiments of the whole. house when I say that we are highly gratified at having this opportunity afforded us of conveying to you our most grateful thanks. (Cheers.) There are members present who will perhaps not again occupy a seat in this chamber; but others no doubt will, and they will be anxious to see you once more occupy the position you now hold. (Cheers.) Twelve or fourteen years ago, when I occupied what I may call a seat on the cross-benches, I recollect that whenever committees were appointed you were almost sure to be placed upon them; and I remember how valuable was the assistance which you always afforded the house in that capacity. It was a singular coincidence that when our late Prolocutor was obliged to leave us on account of his illness, several members to whom he applied for advice each recommended you as the most desirable person to appoint as his deputy. Since then you have made yourself thoroughly acquainted with the law relating to our proceedings-difficult as it is; and for the kindness and ability, the acuteness and readiness which you have displayed in the performance of your duties, I have now, on behalf of the whole house, to offer you our grateful thanks.

The REV. M. W. MAYOW-I am almost taking too much upon myself in seconding the resolution; but there are two reasons which may be my excuse. One of those I only share with all present, and that is the very sincere gratification which I feel in seconding the motion. The other is this. Possibly there is no member who is so little likely to have a seat here again, and I am therefore the more anxious to take this opportunity of tendering you my hearty thanks for the kindness and ability with which you have discharged your duties in the chair, for the exceeding pains and labour which you have gone through, for the anxiety which you have shown, and the success which it is only the commonest justice to say you have attained, in according the greatest possible fairness to all the members of the house. If you have ever had an opinion of your own, which of course, Sir, you, in common with all men of reflection, have had, you have always sought to do more than justice to those who differed from you; and I am sure