He appealed to any

in the situation of an honest man. gentleman who heard him, whether he would wish his estate to descend to his heir without being liable for his simple contract debts; and he asked, why require for another what they would be ashamed of for themselves? It had been said, that credit had already been carried to too great an extent in this country. If that were the case, they had an effectual mode of checking it, that would be attended with considerable mutual advantages, by abolishing imprisonment for debt. When a man was ready to give up all he possessed, he ought not to be imprisoned for not doing what it was impossible for him to do.. Real estates were affected as well by judgments obtained on actions proved by parole testimony, as by sealed instruments or wills. In the former case, the charge amounted to a lien on the property. This measure would neither create a lien nor lower the value of freehold property. The same provision in Scotland was not attended with any diminu tion of the value of freehold property. The objection that the measure ought to extend to copyhold property, be could not answer as satisfactorily as the others. The bill that had been alluded to, had been brought in by a very learned member of his profession (Mr. Ambler), and had failed, perhaps, from having included in it copyhold and customary freehold property. It would be better to proceed gradually. This as a first step of a system would be an important measure; as a single measure it would be highly beneficial. It would be extremely desirable that copyholds should also be made liable; but if the House adopted his measure, he trusted they would not stop there. As to the objection, that this principle would take in estates in tail, he should only say, that he knew not why they ought not to be liable. It was a maxim of the court in which his right honourable friend presided with so much benefit to the country, that a man should always be taken to do that which he ought to do; and certainly as the tenant in tail might, by his own act, have made the estate liable to his specialty debts, there was no good reason why the principle ought not to be extended to such estates. Mr. Canning observed, that though feelings of veneration for every institution of our ancestors, ought not to be carried to excess and bigotry, they ought to operate so far as to prevent any rash alterations. Innovations of this

N 2

nature

nature ought to be regarded with the utmost jealousy, and to be examined with the utmost scrupulousness. Without meaning any disrespect to the honourable and learned gentleman who proposed this bill, for as to his abilities there could be but one opinion, he must say that it was his own opinion, and that of many others, that a measure of this nature ought rather to have originated in the other House, where it might have, in the first stages, undergone the revision of the great law magistrates. This ought to have been the case, though the honourable and learend gentle man had heard of no difference of opinion on the subject; but if there was a difference of opinion existing there, that point well deserved the honourable and learned gentleman's consideration. The particular object of this bill was to fmeet the cases of fraud with regard to freehold estates, but he admitted that with regard to copyhold and; entailed estates the room for frauds would still be left open. But he insinuated that this was only meant as a preliminary step to similar, alterations with regard to copyhold and entailed estates. In this view he had strong objections to the bill. The honourable and learned gentleman admitted that one door would be left open for fraud in the purchase of copyhold estates; he would ask him whether, previous debts were intended to supersede subsequent settlements of freehold estates, and to be good against purchasers? If they were not, the object of the bill would be evaded; if they were, then you would only be doing away one opportunity of fraud, in order to create a stronger. The honourable and learned gentleman stated, that this was becoming in a great degree a commercial country, and that in that respect its situation was become different from what it was when this law with regard to property had been established. This was certainly true, but, though he felt well disposed towards the commercial interests of the country, yet he did not think that it ought to be promoted at the sacrifice pro tanto of the permanent landed interest. He did not think that this was wanted. But why did not the honourable and learned gentleman make his bill exactly commensurate with his object? Why did he not apply it merely to the land holder engaged in commerce, and adopt the suggestion of the right hon. and learned gentleman (the Master of the Rolls) for confining it to the first purchasers of freehold estates. You might secure the object by ex→ tending

tending the bankrupt laws to these cases. But as to the general doctrine of the adaptation of laws to the supposed state of the country, it would open a door for all reformation. In the reign of the philosophers of France, there was nothing great or venerable in antiquity that was not attacked, before the great revolution, which rendered these changes odious to all the world. If you were to look generally at the fitness of things, he would undertake with half the ingenuity of the honourable and learned gentleman, to prove to the conviction of speculative men and many others, that there was nothing that had been hitherto held venerable in our law that did not require reformation. He would prove, that the right of primogeniture ought to be abolished, and that it was improper to leave almost the whole to lazy drones of elder brothers, and leave the rest to make their way in the world as they could. If you began with these notions, there was no end to them. He had, therefore, his doubts as to the propriety of passing this law, and these doubts were not removed. He would not however, oppose the second reading, because he wished to observe what amendments might be made in it, but he rather thought that he must be under the necessity of opposing its ultimate success.

The Solicitor General, in explanation, denied his having said, that it was his intention to proceed further. He had merely stated, that it might possibly appear proper to parliament to make other alterations in the course of time. He had no personal object whatever in this measure. His sole motive for bringing it forward, was a conviction of the benefits which the public would derive from it."

The Allorney General supported the bill on the grounds of justice and morality, and his only wonder was, that a -measure of this nature had not been brought forward sooner. The object was to compel the heir to do that justice which his ancestor might be prevented from doing by various causes. Our veneration for the institutions of our ancestors must be limited by a regard to justice. He denied that the evil which this bill went to remedy, was merely a specific and partial one. The tendency of our law was to facilitate the alienation of landed property, and to get rid of feudal ties, and that was certainly nota partial reme

dy

dy which went to render the real estates of persons dying in debt, and perhaps wishing to discharge them, liable for these debts. It would be a great satisfaction to many persons, who without any fraudulent intentions found themselves at the moment of dissolution, unable to make arrangements for paying their debts as the law now stood. It would be a great satisfaction to them to have the conviction that their debts would be paid from their real estates. He denied that a bill of this kind ought with any peculiar propriety to originate in the other House. The great law magistrates would have the measure before them in due time, if it passed that House. He thought that the House and the country were under great obligations to his honourable and learned friend for his bill. He was glad that the subject had been brought forward and laid open to public discussion.

A gentleman whose name we could not learn generally expressed his disapprobation of the measure.

Mr. Perceval was upon the whole rather disposed to favour the bill, for the object of his honourable and learned friend was one which ought certainly to be promoted, if that could be done without injury to the proprietors of land, and he was glad that there seemed a disposition on all sides to canvass this business more maturely. The very reason that rendered it proper to pause upon it was that which the honourable and learned gentleman (the Attor ney General) over the way had urged in its favour. He had expressed his surprize that such a measure had not been proposed before. This might be owing to some difficulties attending it which were not at present observed, and therefore it was proper to proceed with caution. The cases of copyhold estates and of estates sold subsequent to debts contracted, mentioned by his right honourable friend near him (Mr. Canning) would be very material difficulties. However the bill had as much merit, with regard to persons dying and leaving their debts unsettled through inadvertence, and not from any dishonest intention, that it had his most hearty approbation at present.

Mr. Morris observed, that the case of the subsequent settlements mentioned by the right honourable gentleman (Canning) over the way, had been already provided for by the statute of Elizabeth. The case of primogeniture was not at all like the present. No remarkable grievance arose from

that,

that. He was glad to find that the right honourable and learned gentleman below, (the Master of the Rolls) had not given this measure a decided and deliberate oppo

sition,

The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed the next day se'nnight.

FINANCES.

Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee on the finances of the country.

On the motion that the resolution be read,

Mr. Stourges Bourne suggested the propriety of delaying the further consideration of this important question, which went to subvert the principles on which the whole financial system of the country, and that too, without the House being in possession of several necessary documents. There was no estimate on the table of the produce of the war taxes, and on this subject the House had only the assertion of the noble lord, which, however respectable, was not of itself a sufficient authority. At that period of the night, too, he could hardly think that the noble lord would press the discussion. What necessity was there for haste? If the measure was to be followed by taxes, it might be expedient to lose no time in passing the bills through the House: but this was not the case: and with respect to the loan, the loan of last year was contracted for at a much later period, and he was satisfied that no inconvenience could arise from delaying it for at least two months. He had no party views in what he stated, but he was convinced, that the House had not had time to render themselves competent to decide on this momentous question. If, however, they were to be compelled to come to a decision, he, for one, felt it impossible to vote for the first and second resolutions, because they went to mortgage the war taxes, many of which would not be available in time of peace, and many others, of which policy ought to induce us at that period to repeal or modify Of this latter class were the duties on spirits and tea. Justice also demanded that the tonnage duties, &c. should cease with war; and there was another duty which bore with peculiar severity on the lower classes of the people, and which ought to be got rid of as soon as possible; he meant the last duty on malt, to which he should even prefer retaining the property tax. For these and other reasons he could not agree to the first

and