bour. The excess of 39,000. in the expence of the commissariat department of Ireland was principally owing to the shoes which they provided for the army in Spain.

Mr. M. Fitzgerald said that he could not avoid mak ing a few observations on that item of the estimate respecting foreign corps. He understood that the island of Capri had been fortified in such a manner as to be considered impregnable, and that the defence of it was princi pally entrusted to one of those foreign corps, the royal regiment of Malta. A very small French force attacked; it, and this foreign corps ran away, and let the French take the island. He saw this royal regiment of Malta set down at 940 men; and he also saw a royal Sicilian regiment of 1127 men. He believed the character of the Sicilian people was not exactly that which could be wished, for recruiting our army.

Mr. Wilberforce expressed surprize at the system which still prevailed about army chaplains. As for the descrip tion of persons who were chaplains about ten years ago, he. had an instinctive feeling, which made him wish to get rid of them. He wished, however, that our army should have the benefit of religion free from the abuses of the former institution. If soldiers went to the parochial church, they often found there was no accommodation for them; and as to saying prayers for them at a different hour, it was depriving the parish church of what was most interesting in public worship, when all ranks and degrees assembled together, to worship their common father. and benefactor. He thought that it was of the utmost importance that armies, going on foreign service, should have proper clergymen to administer the consolations of religion to the wounded and the dying. He thought there. ought also to be some religious instruction and consola tion for the many black regiments in his majesty's service in the West Indies.

The Secretary at War repeated, that considerable improvements had already taken place in the appointment of chaplains, and still further improvements were intended. As to the conduct of the regiment of Malta at Capri, he had not information enough on the subject to enable him at present to give an opinion.

Mr. W. Smith said, there was a subject which he had long wished for an opportunity to allude to, and which be did not yet wish to make any regular motion about. As

he considered it connected with our military means, he should take the present opportunity of stating it. The island of Sicily had long been occupied by our troops, and was dependent upon them for its defence. Now, though he was averse generally to the principle of interfering in the affairs of another government, yet, when we took upon us to defend Sicily against all attacks, we would be justified in seeing that the government of that country took proper measures for their own defence. The accounts of all travellers for the last century coincided in stating, that the Sicilians were by no means attached to the Neapolitan government, which was most intolerably oppressive. He had some conversation with Sir John Moore before he went to that island, and it was the opinion of that gallant officer, that the island was in some danger on that account. Another gallant officer (Sir John Stuart) who was a distant relation of his, had expressed to him the same idea. Now, he thought we could do our business more efficaciously, with a smaller body of men, if we would but suggest to the government of Sicily the necessity of adopting such measures as would secure the af fections of the inhabitants. Having thrown out this idea, for the consideration of his majesty's ministers, he did not. mean to press it further, or to make any motion to the House upon it.

Mr. Brand could not conceive the reason of the estimate being so high for the volunteers, when it was considered, that 160,000 out of 240,000 had volunteered for the local militia.

The Secretary at War explained, that the estimate in cluded the volunteers of Ireland.

The following sums were then voted for the following purposes:

Land forces (including various mis

cellaneous services

Regiments in the East Indies

Troops and companies for recruiting

ditto

Embodied militia

Staff and garrisons

Full pay to supernumerary officers

Public departments

Half-pay and military allowances

£7,582,378 16 11

66,373 5 0

29,322 10 0

3,048,647 19 5

449,619 7 9

31,796 1 3*

257,711 13 3

233,568 5 1

In-pensioners of Chelsea and Kil

mainham hospitals Out-pensioners of ditto Widows pensions

Volunteer corps
Local militia

Foreign corps

Royal military college

Royal military asylum

Allowances to retired and officiating

chaplains

Medicine and hospital expences

Compassionate list

Barrack department (Ireland)

Commissariat department (Ireland)

NAVY ESTIMATES.

B. 3. d. 67,143 14 11 425,269 19

49,437 11 8

1,000,820 0 0 1,219,803 0 0 9: 3,654 6 10 16,975 17 4 23,350 9.2

21,972 12 11

115,024 8 4

14,300 0 0

479,857 16 11

235,508 14 2

Mr. Ward rose to move the navy estimates.

Sir C. Pole thought that the navy estimates should be delayed until the House had time to consider the reports of the naval commissioners, upon which those estimates were founded. The fourth report was, as he had under stood, only laid upon the table of the House that day.

Mr. Ward had no objection to put off the estimates for a certain time, in order to give gentlemen time to read the reports; he must, however, deny that these estimates were altogether formed from these reports. The various items of the navy estimates had been before the House a long time, and gentlemen could see that they were only the common and ordinary charges.

Lord H. Petty thought, that if this fourth report, which had been laid upon the table that day, contained those reasons which induced the lords of the admiralty to present those estimates, the House should have time to examine that report, and judge of those reasons.

Mr. Whitbread thought it strange that reports, stated to be made in the year 1807, should not be laid on the table of that House till 1909.

Mr. Welles'ey Pole said that it was the general custom, when a report was made, to send it to the board to which it related, in order to regulate its conduct. They were afterwards got back from those boards to be copied, and as those reports were many and voluminous, the copying of them necessarily took up a great deal of tine. He was VOL. II.-1809.

2 K

free to admit, that he had not conceived that it would be material to have the report sooner on the table. The fourth report had been acted on for some time, had been printed by the navy board, and was pretty generally cir culated. He confessed he had waited till all the reports. were copied, instead- of laying them on the table one by

one.

Mr. Ward said, that of the 1,500,000. which the estimates of the present year exceeded that of last year, 1,275,000l. was for transports.

Mr. Whitbread thought the honourable gentleman ought to have presented the reports of the naval commissioners one by one as they came out, and not have waited till they were collected in large folio volumes, which the House had not time to take into consideration.

Mr. Wilberforce thought, that the repor's ought to have been laid on the table the first day of the session, but he did not think there should be any longer delay in bringing forward the navy estimates than till next Friday.

Sir C. Pole said, that he certainly did not disapprove of that part of the increase of the expenditure, which proceeded from giving an augmentation to the salaries of the clerks in the admiraly. He thought, however, that the board of admiralty had been guilty of great extravagance, and that there must be considerable irregularities in paying the different ships. The crew of a 64 had been seen parading about the streets of the metropolis, and had gone down in a body to the admiralty to demand their pay. He disapproved of the appointment of the additional commissioners of the navy, and feared that those appoint ments were obtained through private influence, and that it was not for the good of the service.

Mr. W. Pole said, that as to appointments of the persons who were to be the naval commissioners, Lord Mulgrave had made it from a list which had been -returned to him by the naval lords, of those captains that were most fit to be commissioners in the navy, and that from that list the appointment was offered to each according to his seni ority. As to the crew of the Saturn, the real story was this:-That ship had been a long time in India, and on her return to this country, the men got leave of absence from their captain. It was a regulation introduced by the. present admiralty, that when a ship returned from having been long abroad on a foreign station, the men were to

receive immediately a certain proportion of their pay, and to have leave (if their captain permitted them) to go and see their friends. Now the Saturn happened not to fall directly within the order, for receiving a certain proportion of pay. The men, however, got leaye of absence, and finding themselves in London without money, they waited at the admiralty, and respectfully asked for a part of their pay. They were ordered to return, and report themselves to their captain, which they immediately did, and by the orders of the admiralty, they received that proportion of their pay, and got farther leave of absence to see their friends. As to the victualling board, the abuses in that department had been so gross, that it was absolutely necessary to make some changes. He would instance one case, where a man charged 4000 ton of casks more than existed, and yet his accounts were passed as perfectly regular. The duties of the victualling board had been increased twelvefold since 1798. He meant nohing disrespectful of those dismissed; they had long been tin the service, and were very respectable men; but both Mr. Marsh and Mr. Budge were very infirm, and desirous of retiring. Lord Mulgrave called on the members of the board for their opinion, and on their suggestion, he chose Mr. Browne and Mr. Hobbin, the former of whom had been secretary to Lord Keith, and the latter secretary to Lord Howe. When Lord Mulgrave came to the admiralty, it had been previously determined, that Mr. Harrison was to retire from the public service on 500l. a year, being 3-8ths of his salary, and his place he gave to Colonel Welsh, who had long been an officer in the public service, was a man of business, and a great part of his business was to provide necessaries for the army. Mr. WelIesley Pole entered into a defence of Lord Mulgrave, as to the appointments which, had been alluded to, and insisted, that the estimates of the navy did not depend on the fourth report, on which so much stress had been laid by the honourable baronet, and assured the committee, that whenever the subject came before them, he would be glad to meet the honourable baronet, or any other member, on every point which they embraced. He was glad, however, that his honourable friend (Mr. R. Ward) had agreed to postpone the consideration of them till Friday.