of the committee would be to inquire into the present state of the affairs of the India Company, and the causes which led to it; and his honourable friend who just sat down, had not objected to those who were named for their ignorance, but their partiality. It had fallen to his lot not only to oppose the noble lord whom the right honourable gentleman now at the head of the Board of Controul, (Mr. R. Dundas) had succeeded in office, but also the predecessor of the noble lord, both of whom had constantly and invariably amused and deluded the House with flattering statements of the Company's prosperity, at various times when their affairs were in a state of dilapidation and decay verging on destruction. He could not, therefore, consent to a committee composed chiefly of such persous as adhered particularly to their measures, and were blind to the consequences of their delusive statements. He was no way hostile to the India Company, but he felt it his duty to watch carefully the interests of the public, which were so deeply implicated in their failure, and to guard them as much as possible against the depredations of the Board of Controul, the influence of which had, in his opinion, brought the Company into their present state of difficulty and distress. He should therefore object to a

committee so constituted.

Mr. W. Smith argued, at considerable length, against the present committee. He was well assured his honourable friend (Mr. Creevey) had no personal objections, but merely wished for such a committee as would be likely to discharge their duty with impartiality. There was, he thought, no principle clearer than this, that impartiality, capable of acquiring information, is better than partiality possessed of information. If there were forty precedents in favour of a bad custom, and only one against it, as soon as it was proved to be bad, he would take the one against the forty. He scarcely ever met with a public man who was divested of a bias to a particular system, and there was unquestionably a very striking difference between a committee of persons altogether impartial, who would be desirous to receive information, and one consisting of a number of persons who have been concerned, and that materially, in the transactions to be investigated. He had no hesitation to avow the opinion that a number of gentle-. men in public offices have acquired an undue preponderance in that House, and through men of high charac

INDIA AFTAIRS.

193

ter, they must be under a bias from their official situations. Without wishing to trespass further on the time of the House by entering into circumstances, he should conclude by objecting to a committee so formed.

Mr. Wilberforce differed with his honourable friend who spoke last, and thought they were not without au thority for mixing official men with those of other professions and pursuits, in order to get the best and most extensive information on all points which might fall under their consideration. It was a notion too frequently taken up, but in his opinion a most mistaken one, that gentlemen who have been in India, are all of one mind respecting the affairs of the Company in that country. That the reverse was the case, was well known to the gentlemen on the other side of the House; and could they wish any thing better than to have those who are able to give them information on what is most conducive to the interests of the Company, and of the country? In his mind the Committee would be greatly robbed and denuded, if it should be deprived of the talents and the information of those gentlemen. One would suppose, he said, from the argument, that the directors were men enjoying sinecures of three or four thousand pounds a year, and had nothing to do but to enjoy themselves at their ease; whereas they were gentlemen of the first talents for business-men of industry and application, and devoted their whole time and study to promote the welfare of the Company. He was against objecting to official men, who, in his opinion, would be more useful than any other set of men. He was not present when this business was first introduced, but had heard that some one had done him the honour to name him as a member of that Committee, and for his own part he should have no objection, but that he could not give so much attention to it as he could wish, or as the duty would require; and therefore, if any honourable member would think of another name, he would be much obliged to him.

Mr. Whitbread said he differed with the honourable gentleman who had just sat down, as to the policy or propriety of naming gentlemen in official situations on such a Committee. His honourable friend (Mr. Creevey) could not now be met with the objection of last session, when it was urged he ought to have objected before the Committee was formed; he had now done so in this, and VOL. 11.-1:09. 2C

he thought him well-founded in what he had done. His honourable friend had truly stated, that two unlearned Committees had made two learned reports, whilst a very learned Committee had only made one report. He would ask the honourable gentleman who spoke last, whether the gallant General opposite to him (Sir Arthur Wellesley), who had made the declarations which he had made that night, was a proper person to sit on that Committee, and to inquire into the subjects which must come under its consideration-he, who had just before declared, he would prove all the wars entered into by his noble relation to be just and right. The honourable gentleman and the House must have forgotten the high and splendid character of Marquis Cornwallis, before they could assent to such a doctrine; and, in his mind, the gallant General had, by that declaration, disqualified himself from sitting on that Committee. The Secretary at War was one of the names on the Committee; the Chancellor of the Exchequer was another; both these gentlemen had duties to perform in their official situations, which imperiously demanded every moment of their time; they pleaded their inability to attend election Committees on that account, and were therefore excused from that troublesome office; and were the duties of this Committee of less importance, or the objects of its attention of an inferior nature? If the honourable gentleman who spoke last had not sufficient time to do his duty by attending the Committee, how is it possible that these right honourable gentlemen should be capable of doing theirs in both places? There were also two directors who were nearly in the same predica ment. What surprised him not a little was, that the board of controul and directors frequently act against cach other, and here on this Committee you have those persons who ought to be witnesses against each other acting to gether. It was on the face of it absurd, and the public would never be satisfied with such proceedings. He did not mean to say the gallant general was connected with Marquis Wellesley, nor Mr. Dundas with Lord Melville; but could it be said that the son of the man who was the first proposer of this plan, and the evil effects of which will form one of the first grounds of consideration, and the brother of him who has been the principal supporter of it, are proper persons to judge of the conduct of those so pear and dear to them? The gallant General had declared

that night, the wars of Marquis Wellesley were right: the venerable Cornwallis, who was in the evening of his life sent out to India to heal the bleeding wounds occasioned by those wars, had in his last moments said they were the most fatal and disastrous to the true interests of the Company that ever were commenced or carried on. It was, in his mind, impossible that any good could be expected from men acting under such impressions. Lord Melville was so well aware how indifferent the people in general were to the affairs of India, that he instituted a school for Asiatic politics. It was, indeed, a very expensive seminary. Other persons paid generally their schoolmasters for their instructions, but that noble lord bestowed on his pupils little snug salaries of 1500l. a year, for condescending to learn his eastern politics. He allowed, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Secretary at War, were both necessary to the constitution of the House of Commons; but when you have them there, is it right to put them on an-India Committee, when they have paramount duties to perform elsewhere, to which if they attend they must neglect the other. If a selection must be made, let it at least be of those who have it in their power to attend. If the House wished to have a satisfac tory committee, they must expunge many names now standing on this. Sir John Anstruther is a very honour able man, but with a mind as strongly made up as that of the gallant General, it is impossible he can be free from bias. The pension to Lord Melville, the pension to Lord Wellesley, and that to Sir John Anstruther, will ever argue strongly against impartiality. For these reasons he must object to this Committee.

Mr. Fuller contrasted with the East, the situation of the West Indies, and argued that from the former being represented as a fit object for the consideration of parlia ment, the latter not being so, were neglected and ill used.

Mr. C. Grant (a director), said if the Committee was such as he supposed it to be, viz. to inquire into the present state of the Company's affairs, and the causes which brought them into such a situation, it appeared to him to be fairly constituted.

Mr. P. Moore said he thought the Committee a perfect farce and mockery of the public, for it will consist of two parties who ought to be in permanent hostility against each other. The gallant General had said the last

war in India had produced the longest peace that had ever been known there; whereas the peace of 1781, made in a few hours, continued for a period of 19 years, till the galant General was sent out to India with a discretionary power of peace or war in his pocket. The whole system of India had been wrong ever since the minister of the crown had interfered to set it right. The India Company were sufficient to do every thing that could be wished, but the Board of Controul would not permit it. Print the Journals of the Board of Controul, and there would appear a system of the greatest fraud and peculation that was ever heard of. When the House came to the considera+ tion of the finances of this country, which he hoped would soon be the case, it would be found that here, as in Inc the shameful profligacy and lavish expenditure which have for so many years existed in full blossom, have wasted all the resources of the country in undue patronage, and nfluence of one kind or other. As to the exposition, it ought to be produced, that those in the House who wished not to be on any Committee, might see how the resources of the country had been managed. Whilst the whole play of dethroning princes and rajahs was carrying on, not a word of information was sent to their masters (the direct ors :) but they continued in full correspondence with the Board of Controul, and now they are going to club their efforts as a cover to blind the public, and keep them in ignorance of what is going on. He would advise the Chancellor of the Exchequer to take care how he parted with the public money, for he would shew soon (not to-night), that the looseness and profligacy which has been used in lavishing it away, has drawn the country into all the difficulties ander which it now labours; and to give us a system which has annihilated all the resources of the India Company, is absurd and preposterous. He had thought it necessary to trouble the House thus much on the business of this Committee, but his chief aim was to caution the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he parted with the public money.

The motion was generally carried.

DISTILLERIES.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that the Committee should have power to insert a clause to authorise his Majesty to prohibit by proclamation the further distillation of corn or grain in Ireland.