out inquiry, and without laying any grounds for his measure. The great part of these duties were an injury to the English manufacturer who sold, and to the Irish consumer who bought them, without affording the least possible protection to the Irish manufacturer; for there were many duties on articles, no manufacture of which existed in Ireland. Some of these duties too were on articles of prime necessity. A general inquiry into the regulations respecting the intercourse between the two countries would be highly expedient. He had himself discovered that there was a regulation respecting the coasting trade in Ireland, by which duties were levied by port charges amounting to 20 per cent on the freight.

Ordered to lie on the table.

BRITISH MUSEUM.] Mr. Lennard rose to make his promised motion upon this subject. In this establishment, he said, supported as it was at the public expence, the utmost possible facility should be afforded to the access of the public, but especially to those individuals who were devoted to literary and scientific pursuits. He was aware that of late years, a great freedom of ingress was allowed to those who visited the Museum merely for the gratification of curiosity, no less than 50,000 having been admitted within the last year; but what he had to complain of was the difficulty of admission on the part of those who for literary and scientific purposes were desirous to examine the library, to have access to the reading-room, or to or to see the several collections of minerals, prints, drawings, and coins. In France and the other continental nations, the utmost freedom of access was allowed to strangers who desired to see similar collections, and he could not think it honourable to the character of this country, that a different practice prevailed here. If it were said, that from the value of these collections at the Museum to which he referred, it would be imprudent to expose them to the access of strangers, he should say in answer, that an additional number of officers ought to be appointed to take care of them. This certainly would be a much less exceptionable arrangement than the existing restriction upon the admission of strangers. But the appointment of additional officers would be unnecessary, if it should appear that the Museum had

already several officers receiving salaries without any corresponding duty to perform. With a view to ascertain that, he proposed to move for a return of the salaries and extra-service money paid to the several officers of the Museum. At present the admissions to which he referred could not be obtained by any one who did not procure the certificate of the trustees, or who was not known to one of the officers of the Museum; and considering the large sums which had been paid from the public purse for the establishment and maintenance of this institution, he must say, that those grants were very improvidently made, should it turn out, that instead of being found available for a public purpose, it was merely an establishment for the gratification of private favour or individual patronage. The hon. member concluded with moving for an account, 1. Of the number of applications made to the trustees of the British Museum, for the purpose of being admitted to inspect that part of the collection of minerals not generally shown; and the collection of medals and coins; and the collection of prints and drawings; and of the number of similar applications for the purpose of being admitted to the reading-room; such accounts to extend to the last five years past, and to contain the number of admissions in consequence of such applications; and the number of applications and admissions in each of the five years to be stated: 2. Of the amount of the annual salaries, and of the monies paid to each of the present under and assistant librarians, officers, and attendants employed in the care and arrangement of the manuscripts, printed books, minerals, medals, coins, prints and drawings, for extra-service money, or any other sums or gratuities paid to them beyond their stated salaries, and stating the nature and extent of the service and attendance of each officer; and also, the nature and extent of the services for which extra-service money may have been paid; such account to extend to all services and payments within the last ten years.

Sir C. Long said, that his object in rising was not to oppose the motion, but to assure the House that it was not less the wish than the duty of the trustees of the Museum to give every facility to the public. There were two classes of persons who required admission: the first

consisted of those who came for the purposes of general inspection, and to that class very great facilities had been afforded within the last few years; and the number of such visitants was not less than 50,000 in the year. The other class who required admission was the much more important one; it consisted of literary men and artists who came for the inspection of the drawings, medals, &c. It must be obvious that it would be dangerous to admit strangers indiscriminately to such places; and that therefore some restrictions on admission were necessary. He happened to know, that, by the general admission to the valuable library in France, very considerable losses had been sustained. The question then was, whether the restraint adopted at the Museum was too great? It was said by the hon. member, that no person was admitted to certain parts but by the recommendation of one of the trustees; but it should be recollected that there were 43 trustees, and several of the principal officers of the place, to any of whom an application might be made. The officers were all disposed to afford every facility in their power, and if any complaint of neglect on this head were to be made, it would meet with immediate attention.

Mr. Gurney said, he should not discharge his duty if he did not bear testimony to the general facility given to the public by the trustees and the attending officers of the British Museum. By application to the proper officers, admission might be had to the coins, manuscripts, &c. on other days besides those on which the public were admitted. The officers employed were men of high literary attainments, and none could be found more fitted for the employments which they enjoyed. The French government expended more money in the care of their library than was given by us for the support of the British Museum altogether; and he was surprised how well the duty was discharged at so small an expense.

Mr. Bright concurred in what had been said respecting the facilities given to the public.

Mr. Colborne agreed in the encomiums passed upon the trustees and officers, and suggested the propriety of erecting an edifice, which should be at once a commemoration of our victories, and a depôt for the contents of the Museum.

Mr. Bankes spoke of the decayed state part of the Museum, and expressed his

wish that a committee should be appointed to inquire into the condition of the Museum, in order to its improvement. The motion was agreed to.

MOTION FOR THE ORDNANCE ESTIMATES IN DETAIL.] Mr. Hume rose to draw the attention of the House to the Ordnance Estimates for the present year, and to submit a motion on that subject; the reasons for which he should state in the first instance. That retrenchment was the object that he had in view, as well as the avowed object of the House itself, could hardly be doubted. It became necessary, therefore, to point out what alterations could, with the least inconvenience, be made; but in order to satisfy members with regard to particulars of this nature, it was also necessary that accurate and detailed accounts should be placed before them. The estimates, as at present framed, gave none of the requisite information: they entered into no details, but left the House utterly ignorant of all the items which went to compose the separate heads of expenditure. It was impossible for the House to judge what reductions were practicable or expedient, or to what extent they ought to be carried whilst the existing system of account between the public and the Ordnance department was allowed to prevail. The commissioners of military inquiry had in one of their reports advised that a different form of accounts should be adopted, and it was certainly singular that the House should have hitherto been content to vote the sums demanded, on an inspection merely of their total amount. The necessity for setting out these accounts in greater detail would appear manifest on a reference to the last ten or twelve years, during which, it would be found that, the sums actually disbursed did not correspond with the finance accounts.

In the statement which he was about to make, he should not notice the article of old stores. He should confine himself entirely to the actual sum charged against the public. He would take, for instance, the three last years; the estimate for 1817 was 1,189,000l., and the sum charged in the finance accounts for the year ending January 5th, 1818, was 1,435,000l., the difference between the estimate and the actual expenditure being 246,000l. In 1818, the estimate was 1,200,000l., and the actual expenditure 1,400,000.

In 1819, the estimate was 1,100,000l., and the amount in the last finance accounts was 1,538,000l. being a difference of 400,000l. which had in no way been accounted for in that House. Perhaps he had already said enough to prove the necessity of a more strict and rigorous investigation into the conduct of this department. He had great reason to believe that in various other branches of our military expenditure a similar course of profusion would be found to prevail. At a time when they must look to retrenchment, and to that alone, for increasing and strengthening their resources, the House could not be too diligent in their inquiries upon this subject. His intention had at first been, to compare the different sums total, in their present or late amount, with the expenditure for similar purposes in the year 1793, the last year of peace previous to the revolutionary war with France. He was willing, however, considering the great change which had taken place in all our establishments, to select the year 1796 as a fair period on which to found a comparison. That was the third year of war, and a time when the scale of all our military establishments had been greatly raised. He wished only to refer for one moment to the Ordnance expenditure during the three years previous to the war. The amount of it in 1791 was 506,000l., including a sum of 70,000l. for the discharge of debt contracted. In 1792 it was 419,000/., and in 1793, just before the armament, it was, including the charge for artillery, 513,000l. The average was about 440,000l.; which average, after all the reductions and alterations made, amounted in 1819, the fourth year of peace, to 1,400,000l., and in the following year to 1,500,000l. It now appeared by the estimates for the service of the present year that the same amount was to be continued, or at least that the whole saving did not exceed 15,000l. A sum of 3,000l. had also arisen under the head of "saving from old stores." Having arrived at the fifth year of peace, we had only yet effected a reduction of 300,000l. in this part of our war establishments. In the last year there was also a very large sum granted for special purposes; so that, with all the savings made, the expense of this year was much beyond that of 1819.

dence of the disposition and exertions of ministers to carry their boasted schemes of retrenchment into effect. The Estimates laid before the House, as he had already said, proved nothing, showed nothing, and in order to procure some light, he must again have recourse to the reports of the finance committee. In the 13th report of that committee, a very minute account was set forth, such an account as should alone satisfy a House of Commons, when disposing of the public money. It would be easy to show that where a saving had actually been made in one instance, the sum so retrenched had, instead of being carried to the credit of the public, been divided amongst other clerks or official persons. The House must, he was sure, feel surprise to learn that the salaries in the Artillery department amounted to 43,000. or 8,000l. more than was recommended by the commissioners of military inquiry in the year 1810. Under the head of Tower and Pall-mall department, the charge in the year 1782 was 38,000l.; in 1796 it had increased to 51,000l.; and, in 1805 its amount was 105,000%. Here, then, was a regularly progressive increase but it might be explained, and perhaps justified, by the circumstances of the country, and the long continuance of war. But what would the House say on hearing that six months after the last mentioned period the charge under this head was raised to 120,000/.? It was now, in the fifth or rather sixth year of peace, 8,2371. more than was recommended in 1810. In another part of these accounts 30,000l. would be found charged as gratuities for length of service. He apprehended that these were paid to persons who were receiving remuneration for their services under another head of expenditure. The finance committee of 1796 described the gratuities as temporary additions to the emoluments of the clerks and officers, rendered necessary by the then increased price of provisions. They at that time amounted to 42,3021. As in all other cases, however, where the exercise of patronage and pecuniary influence was left to the discretion of the board, the same effect continued long after the assigned cause or pretext was withdrawn. The sum was gradually increased from the year 1796 till 1812, when it amounted to 8,000%. The next year it became 9,600/. the next year 10,000l., then 15,000l., 24,000l., and so on till it now

In order to lay further ground for his motion, he should now refer to one or two articles, as affording practical evi

amounted to 20,000l. And this, the House would observe, was a sum granted to this department to enable them to meet the pressure of a temporary rise in the price of provisions! In the 13th report of the commissioners of military inquiry, they expressed their surprise at this circumstance, and observed that these additional gratuities were granted by his majesty's warrant. They complained, therefore, not of the authority under which they were allowed, but of the discretion exercised by those who recommended these grants to the Crown. The commissioners said they believed it was a practice unknown in any other department, and that it had gone to the extent of trebling the former salaries. After all the warnings which had been given to the Board of Ordnance, he could not conceive what justification could be offered for the large and unnecessary additions which had been made to its expenditure under this particular head. Unless ample and accurate statements were annually laid before parliament, this system of waste would continue, the abuses would be progressive, and it would become more and more difficult to apply a remedy.

He would now proceed to mention a few instances of this prodigal increase and extravagant disbursement as they related to individuals. In the first place, the pay and allowances of the master-general of the Ordnance had been doubled. The salary of the clerk had received a considerable addition. The secretary to the master-general, whose salary was 300%. per annum, in 1796, and who ought to be regarded as a private rather than a public secretary, now received 2,000l. In 1819 the finance committee thought it a great merit to advise the reduction of this sum to 1,500l. per annum, just as if it was the case of a public secretary, instead of being a private appointment, or as if there was no public secretary; although the person who did actually fill that office was at the same time receiving 1,400l. per annum. The office of under secretary, to which there was a salary of 300%. attached, had indeed been abolished; but lest the public should derive any benefit from the abolition, the salary had been divided amongst the clerks. would be seen by a reference to the same accounts, that various new appointments had been created since 1796, and that similar abuses prevailed in every branch

It

of this extensive department. He wished, however, to make a few observations relative to the storekeepers, and more especially to the storekeepers at Sheerness and Dover. With regard to the latter, he would here remind the House that he had asserted on a former evening that the late storekeeper retired on an allowance of 500l. a year. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. R. Ward) had contradicted this statement, and he was the more surprised at the contradiction, as the right hon. gentleman must have been acquainted with all the circumstances, he having a short time before appointed one of the freemen of Queenborough to succeed that officer. Did the right hon. gentleman then, intend to assert that no storekeeper had retired upon a pension of 500/? [Mr. Ward gave a nod of assent to Mr. Hume.] If such was his intention, he must call the particular attention of the House to the case of the storekeeper at Dover. The storekeeper at that fortress, in 1796, had a salary of 120. a year, and an allowance of 20l. a year for house-rent. In 1801, 80l. a year was added to his former salary. In 1805, 50l. was added to it, and in 1808 a further sum of 50l. Afterwards the salary was increased to 420l. and at present, it was 500l. a year. Was such profusion to be tolerated in the present impoverished state of the country? He trusted that gentlemen would pause before they sanctioned it by their votes. The right hon. gentleman had said that no storekeeper had retired upon a pension of 500l. a year. Would he recollect what had happened at Dover and Sheerness? At the latter place, where in 1796, the storekeeper had no more than 100%. a year, Mr. A. Gibbs had retired lately upon a pension of 500l. a year. grant, even if it were a solitary instance ought to convince the House of the propriety of looking narrowly to the Ordnance estimates; but when he told them that similar profusion had occurred at Portsmouth, where the storekeeper's salary was now 1,100l. instead of 600l. as in 1796, they would see the absolute necessity of instituting a strict inquiry into their nature and amount.

Such a

Neither was this lavish system confined to our ports at home; on the contrary, it was in full force in Malta, in Gibraltar, in Barbadoes, in Ceylon, and at the Cape of Good Hope, as he would prove by a comparison of the estimates

in 1796 and in 1820. Mr. Hume then read extracts from them to prove his assertion, and, after doing so, called the attention of the House to a new and useless office, lately instituted; namely, that of store-keeper of ordnance in the Artillery depôt in the Regent's park. What occasion there was for a depot of Artillery in that quarter, when the Tower and Woolwich were so near, he was at a loss to discover; but he found that a Mr. Mash Wood was appointed to take care of it with no less a salary than 3604. a year. When the public money was frittered away in such useless expenditure, surely gentlemen would agree with him in thinking that it was their duty to check it. By cutting away useless offices in one quarter, and by curtailing the salaries of them in another, he was convinced that the Ordnance estimates might be reduced from 1,500,000l. to 1,100,000l. There was now a half-pay list of 330,000l. and it appeared to him that, under such circumstances, if in 1796 the estimates were only 450,000l. the estimates in 1820 ought not to exceed three times that amount. And yet they did exceed that sum; nor was it wonderful, when they recollected the gross and lavish expenditure in the storekeeper's department at Sheerness, into the particulars of which Mr. Hume entered at considerable length. He next adverted to the gunpowder department of the Ordnance, in which no attention to economy had been displayed. For instance, the expense of the establishment for manufacturing gunpowder at Feversham amounted to more than 3,000l. in salaries and allowances for different officers; and yet not one barrel of gunpowder had been manufactured there for some years, and the very mills themselves had been let to a gentleman at Dartford, Strange, however, as the intelligence might appear to the House, he could inform them that in 1819, some time after the mills had been let, and when not a single barrel of gunpowder had been manufactured in them by government, a gentleman was appointed, with a large salary, inspector of the manufactory; and not only had he a salary assigned to him, but even a private House for his residence, in order that he might always be on the spot to perform the duties of his office. So, too, had the other officers of the establishment. Now, he did not blame the government for letting the

mills at Feversham; he only blamed them for not breaking up the whole establishment, when they let the premises with which it was connected. If they had broken it up, they would not only have saved the country some thousands a year in the payment of salaries, but would have added to its revenue a large sum, arising from the sale of the houses connected with it. Similar instances of waste and extravagance were to be found in the same establishments at Sheerness. There, too, the different clerks had houses found them by government; for this ostensible reason-that they might always be on the spot to notice what occurred, How far that reason was a valid one the House would be better enabled to judge, when he informed them that the various clerks resided at Queenborough, and let to strangers their houses at Sheerness. So far was that system carried, that one of the common labourers in the works, who was entitled to a couple of rooms, imitated the example of his betters, and let them out to a convict-keeper. Such was the system at these two places: he did not mean to say that every other station was as bad, but he would undertake to show before a committee, that every one of them was faulty. The hon. gentleman then alluded to the heavy expenses to which the country was put by the floating magazines between Chatham and Sheerness. Besides the expence to the country, a great evil had arisen from it to the constitution. The persons employed in that service by the government were allowed to vote at elections, and were not disqualified as persons employed by it were in the Post-office and elsewhere. That was a point which he trusted that the House would notice, as it was intimately connected with its own privileges. To show how much the purity of election was likely to be affected by this system, he informed the House that not less than 66 freemen of Queenborough were employed in the Ordnance craft, who, under the direction of three magistrates of the place, returned the members for the borough. The whole system of these floating magazines, if properly examined into, would show how grossly the public money was sacrificed and exhibit in the broadest light the corruption of government.

He thought that he had now done enough to prove that some examination into the Ordnance estimates was abso