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EXTERIOR & INTERIOR VIEWS OF THE PRINCE'S CHAMBER & OLD HOUSE OF LORDS,WESTMINSTER,

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1823.] Royal Palace, Westminster.-Roman Camp at Islington.

Mr. URBAN,

Dec. 13.

Mr. URBAN,

489

Dec. 14.

IN your Magazine for August last, AS a lover of antiquities, I am of

zeal which has ever distinguished the pages of your Miscellany, you sounded the knell over the departing relics of the once interesting Palace of Westminster. Having been so fortunate as to secure sketches (see Plate I.) of the two apartments which have been sacrificed to make room for the ephemeral successors which are now rapidly occupying their site; and thinking that they will prove equally acceptable to those of your readers who may have had a personal knowledge of these interesting remains of antient splendour, as to those whose acquaintance with them is only derived from the ample and accurate descriptions you have furnished, I beg leave to place the memorandums I was so fortunate to make (which you may perceive was during the time the work of destruction was in full activity), at your disposal. You have already so well described them, that it is unnecessary for me to attempt an amplification upon your Correspondent's article on the subject. I shall, therefore, only add, that one solitary Chamber only remains of this once extensive fabric; and if report speaks true, this sole surviving relic is doomed to destruction in the ensuing year. Without intending to impugn the motives of those in whom is vested the power of carrying into effect the arrangements which have led to the destruction of so large a portion of the Palace of Westminster, an edifice which had been respected upwards of five centuries, I cannot help observing, that such a sacrifice at the present time, when our national antiquities are generally acquiring a degree of importance and consideration beyond what they have experienced at any former period, is neither prudent nor in good taste, and nothing short of the most urgent necessity can justify the measure. It is therefore sincerely to be hoped that the proposed sacrifice of the Painted Chamber will receive fuller consideration before carried into effect; and, if practicable, some other mode may be adopted, of accomplishing the purposed accommodation, which may embrace the preservation of this in teresting apartment. D. E.

GENT. MAG. December, 1823.

oblivion such remains as may be conducive to the illustration of these researches. Living at Islington, I have often been led to visit, with feelings of peculiar veneration and curiosity, the Roman Camp, mentioned by Mr. Nelson in his "History of Islington;" in which he declares himself of opinion, that, from its situation, and the testimony of the Roman historians upon the subject, it was the station occupied by Suetonius Paulinus, previous to the battle in which he defeated Boadicea, Queen of the Britons. This interesting relic is, I am sorry to say, about to be destroyed for the purpose of letting out the ground on building leases. The Pretorium is, however, as yet untouched, and, I think, could leave be obtained to dig there, some coins and other antiquities might be discovered. As little appears to be known to many even of the existence of this Camp, I would just mention it as a spot worthy of investigation, could permission be obtained. This desideratum I thought you might perhaps be able to supply, or at least suggest some means by which it may be accomplished, and I feel confident it will be highly gratifying to the lovers of antiquity.

As I am on the subject of Islington, I would beg to be informed by some of your learned Correspondents, whether there is any existing print of the ceiling in the parlour of the Pied Bull. It is omitted by Nelson, although he has one of the chimney-piece, in which, however, he has neglected to explain two birds, the bodies and tails of which are still visible, and are represented in the print. I am led to believe these birds to be hawks, and a rebus of the name of the carver. The same rebus occurs in an old manor house at Berlen, near Snodland, Kent. It is fully described in the Antiquarian Repertory, vol. III. p. 155. Yours, &c.

Mr. URBAN,

E. G. B.

Dec. 15.

HAVE lately found the inclosed Essay among my late venerable Fa ther's theological papers, but do not know its author. From the initials at the head of the paper, which are in iny grandfather's hand, I am led to be

Alieve

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Religious Essay, supposed by Dr. Stebbing.

lieve it to be Dr. Stebbing's.-But I do not venture to send it you as his. Upon perusal you will better judge, by its style and sentiments, whether you deem this at all probable; and perhaps your extensive reading will be able to determine this point, especially if it has ever been in print; and moreover, his hand-writing may have passed your inspection.

B. Dr. S

A. H.

"THE existence of a Deity by whom the worlds were made, is evident beyond all contradiction; and shall be taken for granted as the foundation of this Essay.

This God must needs be but one, and must have all possible perfection in himself; i.e. all that our reason informs is good and great in the highest degree, must be supposed to be in Him who made all things. Reason informs us that there is a real, necessary, and eternal difference between actions morally good and morally evil, besides those necessary or indifferent actions that cannot be called good or evil in themselves. The former have been ever called virtues, and the latter vices; and they who by frequent acts of one or the other have acquired habits of these, have been, and are justly said to be, virtuous or vicious, good or evil, righteous or wicked men.

God must of necessity be good, in a moral sense, and in the highest degree, i. e. infinitely just, wise, holy, benefi

cent, &c.

It must needs be pleasing to God, that his creatures (who are by him made capable thereof) should desire, intend, and endeavour to be as like him as possible in all moral perfections and the contrary must of necessity be displeasing to him.

It is rational to suppose that those who thus study to please God, will be approved and accepted by him, shall receive favours from him, and that (if it be possible for men to be happy) He will make them so.

Those that live righteously and virtuously are certainly the happiest men of all others, even in this world; by reason of that inward peace and satisfaction which is the necessary effect of a good life; their own conscience approving and justifying them to themselves. Besides, there is an inexpressible pleasure in doing several sorts of

[Dec.

good actions, well known to all that exercise themselves therein.

The happiness or pleasure which these have in the practice of virtue, is in itself most rational and humane, i. e. every way suitable to that nature which God has given us, but yet it is not all that virtuous and good men are capa ble of, and consequently will aspire after and press towards, after they have attained the highest degree of it that is possible in this life.

The happiness they still desire and press towards, is not of another kind from what they now experience in themselves, but a greater increase of the same, to the utmost that they are capable of.

This makes it highly probable, tho' not certain, that God will not disappoint the desires and hopes of them who have thus approved themselves to him, and that since they do not enjoy so perfect a happiness in this world, there may be a life after this when they shall that since it is their chief good, their superlative desire to be yet more like to God, in moral purity and goodness, and in the blessedness resulting from thence, he will raise them again, or cause them to exist in a future state, when they shall find what they could not in this state.

Reason informs us, that God, who made the world by his power, does certainly govern it by his Providence ; though we are not able to account for the reason and design of all events.

It is certain that there is a great deal of that which is called evil in the world, I mean, besides the vice and wickedness of men, sickness, pain, poverty, and affliction, which must of necessity be subject to the direction and influence of the Supreme Being.

It is evident to every observer, that these things happen alike to all men, whether virtuous or vicious; and consequently that the favour and displeasure of God are not to be judged by or inferred from our escaping or suffering these evils.

The inward peace and pleasure that good men have, cannot counterbalance the real pain, misery, and distress, which at least many of these suffer in this world. And it is irrational and inhumane to pretend, with the Stoics, that we are or can be happy and well pleased, that we can acquiesce in our present state, from the consideration of our virtue and goodness; when at

the

1823.]

Religious Essay, supposed by Dr. Stebbing.

the same time we are upon the rack or tortured with acute distemper, or torn and burnt by the cruel injustice of men, or starving through excess of poverty and want even of necessary food, &c. This is another argument that makes it very probable that there is a life after this, when good men shall find that they did not serve God for nought. It is not at all impossible or incredible, that God who made us to live and be at the first, should make us to live and be again in a future state.

The light of nature or reason further informs us, that as we live, and are sustained by the Providence of God, we ought to love him, to serve him, to reverence him in our hearts, to give him thanks and praise for all the good we receive at his hands, and to look to him with desire and expectation for all that we want; that we ought to worship him in such a way as we think will be most acceptable to him; in the general, that the best way to serve him is to strive to be as like him in wisdom, goodness, and purity, as possibly we can.

It cannot be but those who thus approve themselves to God, not only are the best, but will be in the end the happiest men, and will be really happy, if there be such a thing as happiness to be found and enjoyed by men.

Those who have gone thus far, ought next to consider and inquire whether there is need of a farther revelation from God, whether there be any such thing, and where it is, and what evidence we may reasonably expect for it, and what we ought to be satisfied with, &c.

If a positive revelation from God, superadded to natural reason, be not absolutely necessary to make us wise, virtuous, and happy, yet neither is it superfluous and needless: it is not absolutely necessary, because many have been wise and virtuous, and consequently happy without it; yet it is not superfluous. Because it is possible for God to reveal to us many things which are conducive to our goodness and happiness, which we could not know, at least not so fully, without a revelation.

It is not impossible that God might -nor irrational to suppose that God has, revealed himself and his will to men in a particular and extraordinary

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491

as certain, might have as real an objective certainty that these were extraordinary, miraculous, and supernatural appearances, or representations, as we are certain of any thing that we perceive by our senses, or discover by our reason. But their own reason must inform them whether these revelations are from God, or from some other cause of this indeed they may have a subjective certainty, or a rational persuasion in their own minds, but not a real or perfect knowledge.

Let us for instance take it for granted, that the matter of fact is as related (Acts ix. 4.) concerning St. Paul; he might be as certain and sure that he was struck down by a light from Heaven, and that he heard a voice pronouncing those words, “Saul, Saul, &c." as he could before be certain that he was journeying towards Da

mascus.

But then it was by the use of his own reason and reflection, that he came to consider and discover that it was from God; he must be supposed to have hereupon reasoned within himself, and compared all the circumstances of it in his own mind, and by that means to have come to a just and full persuasion that it was God himself who had done and said this to him; or, which is the same thing, Jesus the Son of God, whose followers he had persecuted.

So that those to whom a revelation is given thus, though they are sure they see or hear something extraordinary, yet can have no more than a rational probability that it is from God, and a declaration of his will to them. At least they cannot be so sure of this as of a mathematical theorem, or of the fact itself.

But then as to those to whom these make report of what they have heard and seen, and to whom no such appearances are vouchsafed, it can be to them no more than probable, that what they say is true: it wholly depends upon the veracity of those that attest it; that they say or swear they saw and heard and felt such things.

It is the first-born of absurdities to pretend to certainty or demonstration in things that wholly depend upon testimony, though he would be a stupid sort of sceptic that should pretend to disbelieve or doubt of many things that have no other evidence for them: and, therefore, after all that can be

492

Poynings Family-Ostenhanger House, Kent.

said, it is not certain, but highly pro bable to us, that there are such places as Spain and Italy; that there have been such men as Alexander and Julius Cæsar.

If twenty men that we have known, or if but four or five, whose honesty and veracity was never suspected by us, should solemnly protest that they saw such and such phænomena in the air, -suppose that such or such a form visibly appeared to them, and that they heard such a voice, and such articulate words pronounced we should scarce deny our assent to their report; though we could not be so sure of it as they themselves were.

There have been many pretended revelations from God. It is worth our serious inquiry, whether any or which of them were really divine, and consequently that ought to be received and obeyed by us.

If any pretended revelation from God be contradictory to reason, it must of necessity be an imposture; for we cannot be so sure of any thing revealed from Heaven, as we are that reason is given us by God himself; and that those things which we know by the use and exercise of reason, are infallibly true: suppose it to be declared in any system of revelation that three and two make not five, but seventeen; that revelation must be false, because reason tells us the contradic tory to it is true.

If any pretended revelation from God be contradictory to the common sense of mankind, or to the evident principles of morality and goodness, that revelation cannot be from God: for we cannot be so certain of any positive revelation whatsoever, as we are certain of the necessity and obligation of being virtuous and good: so that if any revelation pretended to be from God, do either require or oblige men to be vicious, inhuman, unjust, intemperate, &c. such must needs be an imposture, and ought to be rejected as such. But then it does not follow, on the other part, that whatever pretended revelation does enjoin men to be virtuous and good, does forbid vice and wickedness, is certainly a positive revelation from God; for men, by the light of nature, might devise such a scheme, and therefore there must be more than this to prove the divine authority of a revelation.

That revelation which makes un

worthy representations

[Dec.

God, and

such as contrary to the natural ideas which reason teaches us from the works of nature to form of Him, cannot be divine, because we cannot be so sure that this particular revelation is from God, as we are that God is holy, just, and good, most excellent, perfect, and blessed, &c."

Mr. URBAN, Nov. 22. VOUR Correspondent (p. 392) ob

ligingly replied to my enquiry relative to the Poynings family, by a piece of advice and a sarcasm. Unfortunately for their intended effect, both were superfluous. I had previously consulted the authorities he mentions, and I entertained no ambition of appropriating the equivocal kind of honour to which he alludes. The object of my enquiry was, the descent of a family which may claim some honour, from its rank and alliance for above a century and half, even though its unlucky founder happened to be the illegitimate son of a celebrated Peer, brother and uncle of two others, and in his own person a gentleman and a soldier. The points I wish to ascertain, are "the line by which this family descends from Edward Lord Poynings?" "Whether Edward, the third son, left male issue?" "Or whether any of the descendants from the three co-heiresses of Sir Adrian Poynings, by Mary, daughter and heir of Owen, son of Thomas Lord De La Warr, ever assumed the name and arms of Poynings?" The eldest of these three daughters married Andrew Rogers, esq.; the others married two gentlemen of the name of Moore.

Ostenhanger House, in Kent, the seat of the antient Barons Poynings, was, at the beginning of the eighteenth century, one of the most singular relics of antiquity remaining in this kingdom. The edifice, which was of unknown date, was encircled by nine rude towers, contained two chapels, and was said to be lighted by 365 windows, or something which bore that appellation. Upon the decease of Edward Lord Poynings, it was granted by the Crown to his illegitimate son Thomas, created a Peer by Hen. VIII. and upon his death, without issue, it passed I think to the Moores.

This venerable pile, which had been for many centuries the residence of some of the most powerful and mar

tial

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