Parliamentary Debates During the Third Session of the Fourth Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and of the Kingdom of Great Britain the Twenty-first, appointed to meet at Westminster, the Nineteenth Day of January, One Thousand Eight Hundred and Nine, in the Fortyninth Year of the Reign of His Majesty King GEORGE the Third. HOUSE OF LORDS. took place with the governments of Russia and of France; together with the Declaration issued by his Majesty's command [THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS' SPEECH.] on the termination of that correspondence. The Third Session of the Fourth Parlia-His Majesty is persuaded, that you will ment of the United Kingdom was this day participate in the feelings which were exopened by commission: the Commissioners pressed by his Majesty, when it was rewere the archbishop of Canterbury, the quired that his Majesty should consent to Lord Chancellor, earl Camden, and the commence the negociation by abandoning duke of Montrose. At half past three the cause of Spain, which he had so reo'clock the lords commissioners took cently and solemnly espoused.—We are their seats upon the woolsack; and the commanded to inform you, that his MaCommons, pursuant to message, having jesty continues to receive from the Spanish attended, with their Speaker, at the bar, government the strongest assurances of their the Lord Chancellor informed them, that determined perseverance in the cause of his Majesty had been pleased to direct the legitimate monarchy, and of the nahis commission to certain lords, therein tional independence of Spain; and to named, to open the session; which com- assure you, that so long as the people of mission they should hear read, and after- Spain shall remain true to themselves, his wards his majesty's most gracious Speech. Majesty will continue to them his most The commission was then read by the clerk strenuous assistance and support.-His at the table; after which, the Lord Chan- Majesty has renewed to the Spanish nacellor read the Speech, as it here follows: tion, in the moment of its difficulties and "My Lords and Gentlemen; We have it reverses, the engagements which he volunin command from his Majesty to state to tarily contracted at the outset of its strugyou, that his Majesty has called you to-gle against the usurpation and tyranny of gether, in perfect confidence that you are prepared cordially to support his Majesty in the prosecution of a war which there is no hope of terminating safely and honour ably, except through vigorous and persevering exertion. We are to acquaint you, that his Majesty has directed to be laid before you copies of the proposals for opening a negociation, which were transmitted to his Majesty from Erfurth, and of the Correspondence which thereupon VOL. XII. France; and we are commanded to ac quaint you, that these engagements have been reduced into the form of a Treaty of Alliance; which Treaty, so soon as the ratification shall have been exchanged, his Majesty will cause to be laid before you.—— His Majesty commands us to state to you, that while his Majesty contemplated with the liveliest satisfaction, the achievements of his forces in the commencement of the campaign in Portugal, and the deliverance B with the interests of his allies, of Europe, and of the world." The commons having retired, the lords commissioners withdrew to unrobe. The earl of Liverpool (late lord Hawkesbury) took the oaths and his seat. An adjournment for a short time took place. At five o'clock the house resumed, when the Speech was again read; after which, of the kingdom of his ally from the pre- | sence and oppression of the French army, his Majesty most deeply regretted the termination of that campaign by an Armistice and Convention, of some of the articles of which his Majesty has felt himself, obliged formally to declare his disapprobation. We are to express to you his Majesty's reliance on your disposition to enable his Majesty to continue the aid afforded by his Majesty to the king of Sweden. That monarch derives a peculiar claim to his Majesty's support in the present exigency of his affairs, from having concurred with his Majesty in the pro-porting his Majesty in the effectual prosepriety of rejecting any proposal for negociation to which the government of Spain was not to be admitted as a party. The Earl of Bridgewater rose for the purpose of moving an Address to his Majesty thereon. His lordship began by observing, that he was persuaded he should meet the unanimous concurrence of that house in sup cution of a war which the country is engaged in, for the purpose of securing and establishing upon solid foundations the blessings Gentlemen of the House of Commons; of peace. He was equally convinced that We are commanded by his Majesty to with respect to the proposals for opening a inform you, that he has directed the esti- negociation with the enemy, the conduct mates of the current year to be laid before adopted upon that occasion would meet you. His Majesty relies upon your zeal with the approval of the House, and that and affection to make such further pro-in his exertions on behalf of Spain and of vision of supply as the vigorous prosecution of the war may render necessary; and he trusts that you may be enabled to find the means of providing such supply without any great or immediate increase of the existing burthens upon his people.-His Majesty feels assured, that it will be highly satisfactory for you to learn, that notwithstanding the measures resorted to by the enemy for the purpose of destroying the commerce and resources of his kingdom, the public revenue has continued in a course of progressive improvement. liberty, the sacrifices the country had made, and would make, would continue to be sanctioned by their warmest approbation. Ile entertained no doubt that whatever might be thought of the result of the war in Portugal, yet that the valour of our armies there must merit the most profound applause, and that the aid to be allorded to the king of Sweden, would be acknowledged the well-earned meed of that gallant monarch's fidelity and zeal in the glorious and honourable cause wherein he had embarked. And he no less anticipated the My Lords and Gentlemen; We are di- grateful sensation they must feel, that, rected to inform you, that the measure notwithstanding the efforts of the enemy adopted by parliament in the last session to injure our commerce, yet, that when for establishing a Local Militia, has been their lordships took into consideration the already attended with the happiest success, fact, that, in spite of those efforts, our comand promises to be extensively and per- merce had increased, and our revenues manently beneficial to the country. We increased in proportion. Influenced by have received his Majesty's commands these sentiments he would not trespass most especially to recommend to you, longer upon the time of the House than just that, duly weighing the immense interests to move the following Address to his Mawhich are at stake in the war now car- jesty.-Here his lordship read the Address, rying on, you should proceed with as little which, as usual, was an echo of the Speech, delay as possible, to consider of the most and nearly the same as that which is inserteffectual measures for the augmentationed in this day's proceedings of the house of of the regular army, in order that his Majesty may be the better enabled, without impairing the means of defence at home, to avail himself of the military power of his dominions in the great contest in which he is engaged; and to conduct that coutest, under the blessing of divine Providence, to a conclusion compatible with the honour of his Majesty's crown, and commons. Lord Sheffield rose to second the Address, and said, My lord; we cannot express, too strongly, our gratitude to his Majesty, not only for the transcendent situation in which we now stand as a nation, but for the whole of his able and judicious government, during so long a reign and under circumstances of unexampled difficulty.-Ilis Majesty gra creased for a time, but not very considerably, or by no means as much as was supposed. Buonaparté threatened to subdue us by ruining our commerce, or by the expence of the war. We may thank him for having made the experiment; we are now relieved from all apprehensions on those points, for it is proved, that neither Decrees nor Embargoes can materially affect our trade, and that the flourishing state of our finances enables us to carry on this expensive war, without any considerable loan or new taxes. As to the Embargo laid by the American States, I am confirmed in the opinion I always entertained, that it will prove much more beneficial to the empire than injurious: and we are indebted to the firmness of the ciously acquaints us, that he has renewed | The export of certain manufactures dehis engagements with Spain, and observes that, there is no hope of safety but through a vigorous and persevering prosecution of the war, of which, I flatter myself, the great mass of this country is perfectly convinced, and it must be highly consoling to all Europe, to learn that his majesty is resolved most strenuously to support the cause of Spain. It is our own cause; it is the cause of Europe and of the world; and we cannot but concur in applauding the determination of the Spaniards to persevere, to the last extremity, in the glorious contest for their liberty;-a resolution worthy of that noble nation. We cannot but admire their spirit, when we reflect on the completely disorganized state, into which they were thrown by the treachery of an implacable usurper.present administration for a very great If they should not, in every instance, act according to our notion of what is expedient, or even if prejudice should prevent them from receiving assistance in the way we think adviseable;-if their communications, among themselves and with us, should not be so prompt and perfect as might be expected from a country, whose government, and every thing derived from it, had not been recently dissolved and overthrown ;-if we should observe among them, a degree of party spirit, or struggles for power, we should consider it as the lot of human nature; and when we look among ourselves, (and it is highly to be lamented, especially at this crisis), we discover the same. In short; if all these circumstances should exist, we ought still to respect and admire their general conduct, and not despond, even though great reverses should take place.--The military spirit of the Spaniards is wonderful, if we consider the numerous veteran armies to which they are opposed, and as to our own troops, we have reason to expect from them, every thing that can be done by men. They have the highest confidence in their general, whether he advances or retreats, and we should be satisfied that whatever may happen, a British army, so commanded, will not disgrace the character of our country.-I believe there are few among us who are not convinced, that general ruin must ensue if the war is not carried on with the utmost vigour, and that Spain is the country where the great effort should be made: and how great should be our exultation when we hear that, during such a war, our trade, on the whole, is not diminished. improvement in our situation, in respect to that country, and for the expectation that no machinations or menacing measures shall make us abandon those principles and that system, on which its greatness and power have been established.— It is by contemplating these circumstances that we discover the real greatness and power of this country, and which, I conceive, never can be destroyed but through our own misconduct. Look round the British Empire; look to the East and to the West; and we shall find it, notwithstanding this rancorous war, in as good a state, in all parts, as at any period;-but these matters will be much more ably stated to the house by those capable of rendering them interesting to your lordships. Earl St. Vincent said, that the Address just read was such, that no man who had a veneration for his sovereign, or a love for his country, could ever assent to. Some parts of it, which went to express a determined hostility to the common enemy, and which went to declare the firm determination to carry on the war against him, all must approve. But when he adverted to the manner in which that opposition to him had been conducted on the peninsula of Europe, it was wholly impossible not to express both sorrow and indignation. He would assert it in the face of the country, and in the face of the world, that it was the greatest disgrace that had befallen Great Britain since the days of the Revolution; and this he openly declared, whether he took into consideration the manner in which the war was carried on in Portugal, or the way in which our troops had been sent what purpose they were bred to arms. There was a distinguished person near him (earl Moira) who had the confidence of the people, who had the love of the soldiery, and who possessed the esteem of his majesty: why was not such a person as that nobleman employed? The reason was evident-it was because management prevented it. But was it to be supposed that because a Court of Enquiry had deemed no further investigation necessary, that therefore there ought to be no investigation? Whenever he looked at the terms of the Convention; whenever he reflected on the decision of that court, he could not avoid exclaiming, that the decision so announced was a blot upon the country. Whenever he heard of Councils of War being called, he always considered them as cloaks for cowardice; so said the brave Boscawen, and from him he imbibed the sentiment which time and experience had completely confirmed. At Vimiera we gained a victory, and in the moment that our soldiers were flushed with conquest, recourse was had to a council of war : that, he presumed, could only have been necessary, or indeed apologized for, in the moment of defeat. Upon what principle, therefore, such an expedient was resorted to, he, for one, accustomed to other methods, could not account; they only who acted in it can explain it. Just the same opinion he entertained of the Court of Enquiry; it was a shield to ward off investigation from ministers themselves; but he trusted that their lordships would not be prevented from making a scrupulous in there. Transports were hired, and great | balls; we are to hold ships in trust by merit was to be attributed to the ingenuity contract, and not in right by conquest. of ministers in providing these transports; We had Princes of the Blood, all of whom but the public ought to be undeceived are bred to arms; why, he asked, were upon that head; there was not a tittle of not some of these illustrious personages merit in the case; it was only going to employed to lead our armies; they had market, and offering a little more than the made the science of war their study from market price, and transports were to be their childhood? If they were not to be obtained in abundance. He wished, how-employed, he was at a loss to ascertain for ever, to notice the important services to which these transports were eventually applied: "why truly," said his lordship, they were at last employed to convey the rascally ruffians whom Junot commanded to that part of France which was nearest the boundaries of Spain, that they might, as speedily as possible, be again brought into action with more effect against our own soldiers, So that those devils," added his lordship, "are at this moment harassing the rear of our retreating army." The impolicy of sending British troops to Portugal he always disapproved; but the result of the war there he was disgusted with and then the delay that prevailed before we sent a man from thence towards Spain was disgraceful. In fact it would seem as if ministers had not even a geographic knowledge of the country through which they were to pass, insomuch that they ought to go again to school, to make themselves masters of it. But their ignorance of that species of knowledge, one would suppose was official ; for a "Heaven- born Minister," just after he first came into power, asked whether Port Mahon was in Europe or not? and the persons at present in power manifested just the same local ignorance, when they sent an army to traverse a wild and inhospitable country, at the very commencement of the rainy season, to drink new wines, and to be overwhelmed with disease as well as fatigue. So little confidence did he place in these men, that he was decidedly of opinion, that unless they were removed, the country would be lost. The Convention of Cintra could not be considered, with-vestigation of it in their own way. He out feeling sentiments of alarm as well as indignation, rising in the mind; the more especially when he observed the cold-blooded treaty, that gave up a contest with the ships of an enemy, upon a compromise so unworthy the nation's character. There was a time when such old-fashioned words as "sink, burn, and destroy," were understood and exercised: but now we are to negociate to be ships' husbands, and we take possession by bargain and barter, instead of by battles, by bravery, and by knew the character of the Portuguese exceedingly well; they, excepting the city of Lisbon, were as brave people as any upon the continent of Europe, and, officered with British soldiers, would have presented an undaunted front to Frenchmen. Why was not that expedient made use of ? Ministers ought to have known their value, ard if they did not, their ignorance was inexcusable. If that house did its duty, they would immediately proceed to the foot of the throne, and there tell the so vereign the bold truth, that if he did not remove them he would lose the country. These were the sentiments of his heart; he spoke them as a solemn duty, which he found himself bound to express. It was probably the last time he should trouble their lordships, and with that, said the noble admiral, I wish your lordships a good night. (At these words the noble earl instantly walked out of the house.) Earl Grosvenor complained, that in consequence of the mode which his Majesty's ministers had of late years adopted respecting the Speech from the throne, noble lords were often betrayed into an involuntary approbation of the Address. Formerly, it was the custom to read the Speech previously to its being read from the throne, by which the members of both houses were put in possession of the substance of it at least. That excellent custom had been discontinued; and any noble lord who might disapprove of the Specch, was thereby precluded from offering an Amendment to the Address. He would, however, admit on this occasion, that there was not much in the Address to produce a difference of opinion. He cordially approved of that part of the Speech which expressed a determination to give all possible assistance to the Spaniards, so long as they should be true to themselves. He did not despair of the Spanish cause, provided the vast means of this country were employed in the manner best calculated to distress and embarrass the enemy. He also concurred in that part of the Speech which expressed disapprobation of the Convention of Cintra; but he would have been better pleased if that disapprobation had been followed by an avowal that ulterior measures were intended. Ministers having professed their determination to persevere in the cause of Spain, he trusted that their exertions would henceforth be made in a manner different from what they had been. His lordship severely censured that military arrangement by which a British army was sent into the heart of Spain, when it should have been sent to the foot of the Pyrenees. It should have been sent to a situation where it could not be exposed to the possibility of being obliged to retreat. The noble earl expressed considerable regret that the disposition of America should not be favourable towards this country, but was rather inclined towards the Ruler of France. It must be admitted by all, that the Orders in Council did not originate in the smallest degree of hostility on the part of Great Britain against America, but were only framed for the sole purpose of counteracting the obnoxious Decrees of Buonaparté; and these Orders in Council, it was well known to the Americans, were designed to cease, the very moment the enemy reversed his unjust decrees.-There was another subject to which he would desire the attention of the House; namely, the necessity of looking into our internal regulations, for the sake of immediately reforming the abuses which may have crept into the different departments of the government. In these times, when the people were called upon to make such weighty sacrifices, he did think that all useless Places and Pensions should be speedily abolished. When he intimated the existence of such abuses, he had no intention to say that this or any other administration were to be condemned, for he considered they were what might be properly termed, the rust of time, but ought quickly to be done away, lest they should corrode the welfare of the state. Buonaparté, from wicked and malevolent motives, had attended to the removal of every abuse which could possibly retard the success of his schemes; and although he did so from evil, it might well become this country to imitate his example, and do so from the best of motives. Viscount Sidmouth observed, that there was one point upon which there could not, he was persuaded, be any difference of opinion among their lordships, namely, the propriety of assuring his majesty of the gratitude with which they received his Speech. In expressing that assurance, a language was employed, which to him appeared to commit the house to certain points upon which they were not adequately informed. For himself, he would approve of continuing to support Spain so long as any hope remained; but he was not prepared to thank his majesty for a Treaty, of the conditions and engagements of which he was wholly ignorant. It was not impossible, when the Treaty came to be discussed, that he might approve it; but until the documents were before him, he must suspend his opinion, and, above all things, decline to pledge himself to an unreserved approbation of the measure. Before he could come to a proper decision on this subject, he must also obtain some information respecting the state of Spain. At no period within his memory was there so much spirit, so much loyalty and zeal |