prove that the societies, against which the motion was directed, had already been declared illegal; a position which should have led merely to an address to the Crown to cause the statutes to be enforced. He contended that the grand lodge of England and Ireland was an illegal association under the statutes of the 37th, 39th, and 57th of George III., and that the ritual observed at the initiation of members was to all intents and purposes, an oath. The Orangeman bound himself to obey, for whatever purpose, the commands of his grandmaster, who had no authority by law; and that was an illegal engagement under the 37th of George III. The 39th of George III. declared that every society, which should be composed of different divisions or branches acting separately from each other, and having a president, secretary or other officers elected or appointed in such divisions, should be deemed an unlawful confederacy. Now, the Orange society was composed of such divisions; each lodge was a separate branch, having its own officers, and acting separately from the others. The very preamble of the statute contained a description of the Orange institution; for it spoke of illegal associations using secret signs, appointing their officers in a secret manner, and composed of different divisions corresponding with each other through the medium of secretaries, delegates, or other officers; and it set forth that, by such means, these societies obtained influence over large bodies of men, and deluded the unwary and ignorant into the commission of acts highly criminal. These statutes were still in full force, and had been vigorously executed against

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the ignorant and simple. was not long since certain labourers had been convicted under them at Dorchester, and were now suffering the sentence of transportation. These men had combined to raise their wages, which was not in itself an illegal proceeding. They formed a secret society, which was not necessarily illegal: they bound themselves by religious ceremonies, not, however, more profane than those of the Orange institution: they uttered certain words which were construed to be an oath; and for this these poor and ignorant men were transported, for their leader and commander was not a prince of the blood. Let the leaders of the Orangemen be dealt with in the same way. He was sure that evidence could be produced sufficient to insure a conviction in any court of law. Many members of the institution, now aware of its noxious tendencies, would gladly bear such testimony as would infallibly convict the chiefs of a misdemeanour. The House must remember that this offence was a misdemeanour, and consequently liable to be tried, not by the House of Peers, but by a common jury. Let, then, the law officers of the crown without delay prefer a bill of indictment before the grand jury of Middlesex against the illustrious grand master of the Orange institution, against Lord Kenyon, the deputy grand master, against lord Chandos, against lord Wynford, not forgetting the prelate of the order, Thomas lord bishop of Salisbury. Thus this society would easily and quickly be annihilated, and a few years residence on the shores of the Southern Ocean would teach the

titled criminals that the laws of their country were not to be violated with impunity, and that equal justice was distributed impartially to both high and low. He was not sufficiently acquainted with the criminal law of Ireland to be able to say whether the Orange institution was illegal in that part of the empire; but of this he was aware, that the members of the Irish grand lodge might be transported, as they were in the practice of attending meetings in England, and as the statute comprehended within it all who either directly or indi rectly maintained intercourse with any such society, or by contributions of money or otherwise aided, abetted, or supported them. Let the House instantly deprive of his office every magistrate on the list of the society; let them dismiss from their employment every functionary who belonged to it; let them cause the Horse Guards rigidly to enforce its orders on this subject. Let them consider the muster-roll of this society, as the list of their bitterest foes, and the implacable enemies of the people's rights. Sir William thus claimed for the C mmons, in his hot zeal for the people's rights, the power of depriving every functionary in the empire of his office at their pleasure.

Lord John Russell agreed, that it was most desirable to suppress these institutions, and all similar societies, although the Government could not approve of some of the modes of doing so which were now proposed. Looking particularly to the statements made by those who were members and great officers of the Orange lodges, and without at all intend

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ing to cast any imputation on what they declared to be their motives, he thought the effect of those societies had been injurious to the good government of Ireland. By the existence of societies of this kind, arranged in bands, following no recognised or lawful authorities but their own leaders, and holding it to be a part of their duty to enter into warfare and dissension at their command, whether founded upon religion or not, a distinction was made between them and some other part of the King's subjects, who formed themselves into counter societies with other names and distinctions; and a perpetual and ever-recurring source of disunion, disaffection, quarrels, and bloodshed created. It was an evil of these societies, where men of the lowest order were brought into conjunction with men of the highest, that the former were taught to look to those who were high in authority in the society as the leaders to whom they ought to render obedience, instead of to the crown, and the depositories in which the trust of the crown was placed. The natural allegiance of the subject was weakened, in so far as he was taught to look to two heads and two sovereigns, instead of one; and while the one received only that general abstract deference which led to no results, to the other was united that combination of party passion and sectarian feeling, as it might be in this case, which rendered the obedience paid to the one sluggish and passive, while that paid to the other was certain and active. It was an evil inherent in these societies, that being thus supported by their own leaders, they clung to their party feelings, and party animosities, in despite of the supre

macy of the law. But, however clear it might be that it was desirable to get rid of all societies bearing this character, whether known as Orange or Riband societies, or by any other name, it was by no means so clear how that object was to be attained. A report had been made last year by the Committee on Orange lodges, which stated, that the existing statutes, if put in execution, would be quite adequate for the suppression of such institutions. He had discussed this question in all its bearings with the AttorneyGeneral, and the impression on his mind was, that the question whether these societies were legal was one of very great doubt. The Attorney-General had said, that, without looking most carefully at the whole subject, he could not venture absolutely to pronounce an opinion as to their legality or illegality; and the Solicitor-General took a similar view of the case. The government, therefore, were of opinion that if the severe penal statutes already in force did not contain clear enactments against this offence, it was not proper for them to seek some meaning in the law, which would be construed by others, and probably by men of eminence at the bar, into a straining of the provisions of the law, and would make it doubtful whether they had not forced the meaning of an enactment in order to procure a condemnation of the societies in question. Even if they had been able to discover, that although the Orange societies had contrived to evade the law in some points, they had yet contravened it in others, and could have thus obtained a conviction against them, he thought it would be mischievous to the general liberty of

the subject to attempt giving a strained interpretation. It appeared from the opinions of eminent lawyers, of whom Lord Gifford was one, that in 1822, the Orange societies were not held to come within the meaning of the law, and, therefore, if they came at present within the terms of any act, it must be in consequence of some recent change in their constitution. Now, if they were considered legal in 1822 by great authorities, and if, without any real and substantial change, some merely formal alteration had taken place, which rendered them amenable to the penalties of the statutes, he would be averse to putting the question on such narrow ground. Neither did the government think it advisable to propose any new law against them. By such a proceeding the secret signs and distinctive marks presently in use might be made to disappear, but they would be succeeded by some other evasion of the law. A general address, again, to the crown, affecting, all judges, without entering into the case of each individual, he scarcely thought consistent with the independence of the bench. As to removing at once every magistrate and person in office belonging to the Orange societies, those magistrates in Ireland, who had belonged to them, and who had entered them as he believed, with the conviction that they were intended to secure the Protestant interest in that country, if they should be removed at once by an address of this kind without any previous declaration, either from the House of Commons or the crown, would conceive such a stigma affixed to them, that they would still remain banded together from a spirit of resentment, and

would regard the measure only as an unfair and biassed transaction. Though there had been many persons in public employments, who were members of Orange lodges, the government, had not thought proper to remove those individuals for that cause; but, at the same time his colleagues thought, and he was himself disposed to adopt this course, that, where a person applied for any official situation of trust and responsibility under the crown, inquiry should be made whether he were an Orangeman, and if he meant to continue in that society, that his appointment should not take place. It was not only convenient to adopt measures of discouragement in respect to those societies, but, when their nature was so completely unveiled as to be condemned in the opinion of liberal men of every party, they must gradually diminish; and he was prepared to add to these discouragements the further discouragement of an address to his Majesty by this House. He was not prepared at once to address his Majesty to remove all persons from the situations they held without some more clear and decided allegations against them; but if the house came to the opinion that those societies were mischievous, and were to address the crown to discourage them, and the sanction of the crown was obtained to that address, persons of high station belonging to those societies would be placed in a different situation. Persons who belonged to Orange societies, and who were members of that House and of the other House of Parliament-persons in high situations in Ireland, and the illustrious prince, likewise, who

had been alluded to, when he knew the sentiments of that House, and that they had received his Majesty's sanction, would take a different view of their duty; and whatever ends they might propose to themselves from the establishment of Orange institutions, they would not be so indifferent to the welfare of the country as to resist an opinion so solemnly pronounced. He, therefore, moved, "that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to take such measures as to his Majesty seemed advisable for the effectual discouragement of Orange lodges, and generally all political societies, excluding persons of different faith, using signs and symbols, and acting by associated branches."

Mr. Maxwell, member for the county of Cavan, Colonel Percival, member for the county of Sligo, and Colonel Verner, for the county of Armagh, defended the Orange societies of Ireland against th imputations with which they had been assailed. They refused to be tried by the report of the committee; for its proceedings, they said, had been partial and biassed, and, there had been nothing like a full and impartial investigation. So little did the Orangemen dread inquiry that the grand committee at Dublin had placed at the disposal of the House all its books and documents, had directed that all the rules and pass-words should be revealed to the committee, and that the fullest information should be afforded. They treated with deserved contempt the insinuation that the Orange body wished to alter the succession to the throne.

The principles of Orangemen were those of uncompromising loyalty to the crown, the constitution, and the church, and by these they would be found to stand, whatever might be their circumstances of prosperity or adversity. They had been strictly defensive, and had been called into existence by the exigencies of the times, and the dangers arising from associations of a very different character. They would not oppose the resolution; the Orangemen would at once acquiesce in the wish of the House, and yield obedience to the expresed will of his majesty. There was not a man amongst them who, rather than act the part of a bad subject, would not cease at once, however painful it might be to his feelings, to be a member of such a society. But they objected to the specific mention of the Orange lodges by name in the address, while these formed only part of the secret societies which existed in Ireland. This was to stigmatise those who were ready, at the call of his majesty, to relinquish all secret associations, but who still would feel the sting of being chiefly aimed at as the only society named. The influence of those individuals who took the lead in Orange lodges, and who were now willing to act up to the spirit of the resolution, would be greatly weakened, and their power of inducing others to imitate their example would be much diminished, if they believed (and they would believe it, if they saw that they only were mentioned) that the chief aim of the resolution was to put down Orange associations exclusively.

Lord Stanley, after highly complimenting the home secretary on the triumph he was about to VOL. LXXVIII.

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obtain, by the mild, quiet, prudent and statesmanlike tone which he had assumed upon this occasion, and Irish Orange members on the frank and manly conduct with which they had met the conciliatory views of the government, strongly urged the omission of the obnoxious words. It was impossible for any one to doubt from what had occurred with respect to Orange associations in the last session of parliament, that they were most pointedly included in the spirit of the present resolution, and that this would have been the understanding with respect to them, whether they had been mentioned by name or not. The Orange members had so understood it, and had expressed themselves willing to make the required sacrifice, though the name Orange societies had not been mentioned. For his own part he did not object to the words; but though he did not, he still felt that they were objected to by others as tending to diminish the power and influence which they were prepared to assert in carrying out the spirit of the resolution. It was important for the purpose of the resolution itself that this power should not be diminished, nor any stigma be thrown on those who were ready to exert it. He was sure it was not meant by the use of those words to cast any imputation. The resolution was so understood by the opposition side of the House. But the same feeling would not be found to exist amongst their less-informed brethren. Amongst that class, the use of the words, that were objected to, might have the effect of marring the exertions of those members who were disposed to act up to the spirit of the resolution. Let it be recol

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