Sentence, he thought, ought not to be passed upon those who were not intended to be executed; and he was also inclined to think that the value for which an offender could be punished capitally, might be raised in proportion to the alte ration of the value of money at the present day. Mr. Wilberforce could not agree that the Bill would have no practical effect. The law, as it stood at present, was calculated to introduce a sort of gambling into vice, in consequence of the uncertainty of punishment. He defended his hon. and learned friend from the imputation of intending to change the laws of his country; and maintained that his only object was to give the country a practical code. It had been said that laws should be severe; but when they were too much so the sympathies of the people were driven to the side of the criminal, and they were sent away rather shocked than reformed. Sir J. Newport thought it was a great practical evil that juries should be exposed to perjury. He instanced several cases in which verdicts had been given contrary to evidence, for the purpose of avoiding the capital parts of the charges, and hoped his hon. and learned friend would persevere in his intention. Mr. Lockhart thought that the legislators of the present day should give some credit to the wisdom of our ancestors, who had made and acted upon the law as it now stood. He doubted whether crimes were numerically increased, but he was certain their depth of dye was not; and this he attributed to the calculations which culprits made between the crimes which were punished capitally, and those which were not. He objected to venturing on an unknown sea, and repealing a law which had the sanction of antiquity. If he did agree to it, it should be only as an experiment for one or two years, but even that he feared would have a tendency to unsettle the minds of the people. Mr. Whitbread said he had not hitherto taken any part in these discussions, because he thought other gentlemen more competent to deliver their opinions than he could be; but he could not help now of fering a few words to the consideration of the House. He was astonished at the array of lawyers that always opposed his hon. and learned friend; and he was no less astonished at hearing his hon. and learned friend's opinions termed theoretical; and he was as much astonished at the ingenious speech of his hon. friend (Mr. Frankland), who certainly said all that could be said against the Bill; and though he did not convince, at least succeeded in dazzling in some parts, and puzzling in others. Did the lawyers recollect, that his hon. and learned friend, in following up his great and benevolent plan, had pursued the highest law opinions of antiquity, many of whom concurred in the want of an amendment in our criminal laws? As for what had been said of reconciling theory to practice, it would indeed be a most beneficial thing could they succeed in reconciling the theory and practice of the law. It was imputed to his hon. and learned friend that he had taken up the opinion of Mr. Paley. This was not the case; for on the contrary he had combated successfully the doctrine laid down by that eminent writer on this subject. But his opinions proceeded from the best of sources, and from the wisdom of his own excellent mind, matured by experience, and his attendance on the criminal courts. He was certain, whatever might be the fate of this motion, to-night, that these ameliorations would sooner or later be adopted as the law of the land. As for the doctrine of the hon. and learned gent. opposite, that the perjury of witnesses and juries was humane, and improved the general morals, he could not agree with him; and noticed two cases in which such perjuries occurred; the one, where a person who stole six 10%. notes was found guilty of stealing to the amount of 39s. ; and the other, where the criminal was acquitted for stealing money, on the supposition that it might all be bad! Gentlemen on the other side went always on the presumption that these laws were enacted wisely, and on due consideration; but did they not recollect how little capital punishments were thought of before this age of civilization? If a member of parliament was wronged in any way, it was only to move to have the sledge-hammer of the law laid upon the offence; and he dared say they remembered the story of the Bill, making it a capital felony in a Jew to look down an area; which was amended by the introduction of the words, 66 or other," after the word Jew, so that any Jew, or other person, might be hanged for that offence. The hon. and learned gentlemen opposite seemed afraid lest any amelioration of the law, even for a few years, should unsettle the minds of criminals, and that they could not return 7 with a good grace to their capital punish-nishment; and it appeared that the most The Attorney General thought it very natural that many lawyers should come forward upon a question materially connected with their profession. With respect to the Bill itself, he believed it would have a tendency to increase and not to lessen crimes; for it would remove the terror of death which operated most strongly upon the most hardened offenders. They would always make a distinction between the possibility of escaping death and the certainty that they could not be punished by it. As to passing sentence on those not intended to be executed, an hon. and learned friend of his had de<scribed on a former night its effect on a young woman; from whence he (the At torney General) would infer that it might operate in many cases to deter the individuals from future offences. As to the objection of the unwillingness of prosecutors to come forward, it applied equally to the whole of the criminal law. thought the opinions of the Recorder and Common Serjeant entitled to considerable weight and was somewhat surprised that his hon. and learned friend did not endeavour to procure the opinion of the Judges on a matter of such importance. He Mr. Marryatt expressed himself strongly in favour of the measure. The advantage of the milder system of criminal law was evident from the effect which it had pro daced in a neighbouring country. In the year 1802 he was in Amsterdam, and he learned, that for many years but two instances of capital punishment had occurred there. Imprisonment and hard labour were substituted for capital pu(VOL. XIX.) Mr. Wynn supported the Bill. He expressed himself decidedly hostile to the attaching the punishment of death to of fences of a comparatively trifling nature. Much practical ill had arisen from the criminal law, as at present constituted, by occasioning those numerous instances of perjury which every gentleman must be aware of. The House divided, when there appeared: For the 3d reading, 50; Against it, 39. Majority 11. The Navigable River Robbery Bill, the Privately Stealing Bill, and the English and Irish Bleaching Ground Robbery Bill, were then read a third time, and also passed. The Marquis of Lansdowne strongly objected to the principle of the ballot, which on being resorted to under this Bill in the year 1813, would fall on a population diminished by there being taken from it 240,000 volunteers and local militia then in service, and the same number whose term of service would then have expired; it would thus operate with increased pressure upon a population diminished by 480,000, and would become a grievous burden upon this remaining circumscribed portion of the people.. He objected to this the more strongly, because the object of the measure was to supply the regular army, and he thought it unjust, that particular individuals should be heavily taxed for this purpose, instead of the funds for it being supplied by the state. He regretted that Mr. Windham's plan, productive in men as it proved to be in the first and only year of its operation, should not have been (3B2) persevered in, but thought it would be better to dismiss the plan altogether, than to mix it with unlimited service, which he thought operated most unfavourably. The Earl of Liverpool contended, with reference to Mr. Windham's plan, that there was no experience of its success, as the number of men produced in the year referred to, was to be attributed to the measure for filling up the second battalions alluded to last night by his noble friend (viscount Sidmouth). With respect to the Bill, he contended, that it was not the fair way of putting the argument that the ballot was to be resorted to for the purpose of supplying the regular army, it being only to operate for the purpose of supplying men for home defence, in the room of those who had voluntarily entered the regular army. The Marquis of Lansdowne contended, that the success of Mr. Windham's plan was progressive, it having produced in the first quarter at the rate of 10,000 men per annum; on the second quarter at the rate of 13,000; the third, at the rate of 21,600, and the fourth, at the rate of 24,000. Earl Grosvenor was of opinion, that if Mr. Windham's plan had been persevered in, it would have prevented the necessity of having recourse to measures like the present. The Marquis of Lansdowne moved to insert words for the purpose of suspending the operation of the ballot, after the passing of the Act, observing, that the ballot was now going on to complete the militia to 92,000 men, its present number being 81,000, which were negatived. The Earl of Hardwicke moved to leave out the clause imposing penalties in the parishes for not raising the men within the time allotted. The motion was opposed by the earl of Liverpool, and the House divided on the question that the clause stand part of the Bill. Contents...... Not Contents.... ........25 .12 for taking into consideration the Prince Regent's message, and the said mésságe having been read by the clerk at the table. Marquis Wellesley rose, he said, for the purpose of moving an humble address to his royal highness the Prince Regent, in answer to his most gracious communica tion made yesterday to their lordships, concerning the propriety of affording aid to the people of Portugal. The noble marquis called to the consideration of the House the effects that had been produced in Portugal by the spirit of the people and the troops that had been raised and taken into British pay. A sentiment had been thereby created of admiration of the magnanimity, the perseverance, the zealous and ardent constancy, which the exertions of our ancient and faithful ally had, with British assistance, so strikingly manifested. He called to mind the great and costly sacrifices they had made: first in the preparations for an effectual resistance to their invaders; and secondly, in bearing up with fortitude against what had since taken place, and, in the endurance of their spirit under the wanton cruelty and savage barbarity which had been exercised upon them in the retreat of the French army. He did not think it necessary to urge this subject by entering into details of what had been inflicted and what endured. What he was about to propose was justifiable, not only on motives of generosity to a people in alliance with us, but was due on the sound policy upon which he conceived every one must see that the proposition stood. But he should take the liberty of making a few observations on its general principles. There could scarely exist a doubt, that in such a contest as that in which this nation was now engaged, a fair and full view of its circumstances would justify us in raising a resistance in any part of the continent of Europe against the enemy, when there appeared any prospect of such resistance being efficacious and successful. But there had been much doubt, and experience had confirmed the opinion, that whatever general principles of policy might justify, we ought to know the sentiment of the nation which we were about to assist and encourage: we ought to know that she felt as sincerely and deeply as ourselves the nature of her situation; and that she felt that spirit and energy to resist her oppressor which could alone lead to a steady, regular, determined opposition, which could only be expected to be success This measure, therefore, he would repeat' stood upon the ground of the solid, substantial policy, of encouraging what had proved so advantageous, and not simply an old attachment, friendship, and alliance. It stood on the ground of the only hope of achieving any thing in the shape of security for any part of Europe. It conbined principles, in which ancient alliance and particular and general safety, were equally concerned. He was satisfied that their lordships would not repudiate those grounds of action-that they would not repudiate such old and admitted principles of national conduct, which were in such perfect consonance to every dictate of morals and of religion. The principles of our measures in Portugal were not to be characterised as sentimental, chivalrous, and, romantic: they were connected with every sentiment that was dear to British hearts. Hitherto we had given our aid liberally, and there were the best reasons for our continuing to do so. It was fresh in the recollection of their lordships, that they had acted on a broad, fair, and liberal scale. He hoped he had not lived to see the day, though he had sometimes been surprised by hearing something like it, when it should be said, that ancient faith, long-tried attachments, and close connections with our allies, were circumstances to be discarded from our con. sideration; and that they should be sacrificed and abandoned to the mere suggestions and calculations of a cold policy. Connected and combined as every great view of such a subject was in this measure, he should not further encroach upon their lordships' attention except to mention, that the sum he proposed for the relief of the suffering subjects of our ally in Portugal, was 100,000l. The noble marquis then read the Address to the Prince Regent, which was conformably to his Royal Highness's message: and moved that the Address be agreed to. ful by the full view, on the part of the struggling nation, of the dangers and difficulties against which it had to contend. Under these circumstances, he begged their lordships to look at the great exertions of the Portuguese, and to consider that for the purpose of such a defensive war, the first and main-spring of resistance must be found in the spirit of the people themselves. Great exertions were made in the first instance; but there was one great matter still required; there was wanted not only the spirit to prepare, but the spirit to endure. See what were the efforts which had been made by the nation. It was not only the exertions of the Ordenanza, nor the numerous and great individual efforts, but it was the persevering and vast sacrifices which had been sustained by the public spirit, which, under the exertions and directions of that great commander-for so he must call him, though so nearly related to him by blood-had been rendered so essential to the general defence. Every man must agree, that by the whole system, all the attempts of the enemy had been frustrated; the whole of this great combination of measures for defence had tended to exalt our military character in the highest degree, in every sober, stedfast, regular consideration of such a subject. It had manifested the wisdom of the commander, and had defeated the enemy in all his efforts. As we had felt ourselves fully justified in sustaining the military efforts of the Portuguese government, so now that we had gained that main spring of defence, the will and spirit of the Por tuguese people, were we equally justified in rendering our assistance to them. When we saw that distress which they had borne with firmness and perseverance, should we not agree to give our aid for relieving them from the pressure? Indeed, we should be laying the foundation for the erection of new military undertakings, by supporting and animating a spirit, not originally created by us, but hitherto fostered by us so successfully, and which after its sufferings and privations came back to us for farther sustenance and encouragement. On this great military diversion, founded in public spirit and fortitude, depended the hope of any favourable alteration in Europe, and, in no small degree, our own particular safety. The consequences of the example of Portugal might prove as beneficial to other nations of Europe as they had hitherto been for her own defence. Earl Grosvenor felt considerable difficulty in acceding to this motion, particularly when he considered how much had been done already for Portugal. Lately two millions of money had been granted to that country; and the reason then assigning for proposing it was, that the French were in possession of great part of Portugal, and therefore the revenues could not be received from the distant provinces of the country. Now the same reason did not hold, for the French were in possession of only a small part of Portugal; and he would ask, were their lordships really pre- | pared to take the whole burden upon themselves, and exempt the Portuguese altogether from the burden of relieving their own people? It was a principle as applicable to public as to private affairs, that you should be just to your own people before you were generons to other nations. He knew it would be generally thought, that this was a magnificent and high sounding proposal, and that to some minds it might recommend itself on that very account, particularly as displaying a marked contrast with the barbarity and atrocities of which the French had been guilty towards the Portuguese. These were, indeed, shewy principles; but he doubted whether they were sound in the present circumstances of the country. He was not for deserting an ancient ally; but sometimes too great liberality had the effect of discouraging the efforts of those who were the objects of it. He begged, however, to remind the House, under whom these exertions of the Portuguese had been made; they were made under the direction of British officers: and hence he concluded, that if any thing was to be expected from the Spaniards in the common cause, it must be from their being led an by British officers. The Earl of Harrowby observed, that his recollection did not furnish him with the reason assigned by the noble lord for the former grant, namely, that a large proportion of Portugal was in the hands of the enemy. That was a grant founded on reasons of its own, and furnished no argument whatever against the present. It should be recollected, that the war in Portugal was not an ordinary war, nor conducted by the French on the principles usual in former times, when, though a hostile army traversed a country, yet still something was left for the subsistence of the inhabitants; but Europe had never witnessed such barbarities as had been perpetrated by the French; and the country through which they passed had been plundered and exhausted to such a degree, that British humanity alone could afford it the common and necessary means of existence; and if the aid was not speedily granted, it might come too late to effect its object. Highly as he thought of the talents of the British officers who were at the head of the allied army, he did not believe that even their talents would have produced their effect without the exertions of the Portuguese population. The pea santry and the militia had uniformly displayed the greatest ardour, and their army had fought side by side with the British soldiers. Let their lordships look also at the accounts which had been received of their inferior officers, and it would be found that they had always their full share in the danger and the glory of every ac tion. The liberties of Portugal had been saved, at least for a time, at the expence of much blood and treasure, and if farther distresses were inflicted on the peopleby the atrocities of their enemies, which it might not be in the power of this country to prevent, the present measure would at least display the generous policy on which we had acted. The Marquis of Lansdowne, in conse quence of what had fallen from his noble friend (earl Grosvenor) felt himself called upon to state shortly his reasons for voting for the present motion; agreeing in the justice of the remarks made by his noble friend, he still could not consider them as a ground for resisting the motion. As applied to economy in our expeditions, and the taking care that more expence was not incurred than was commensurate with the object to be attained, he' perfectly concurred; but whatever might have been his opinion regarding the policy of our military exertions in Portugal, no doubt now existed in his mind, that the efforts made by the people of Portugal eminently deserved at our hands the aid now asked, to relieve that distress into which they had been plunged by the barbarity of the enemy. Of that state of distress there could be no doubt; it was confirmed by all the accounts received from Portugal, which stated the priva tions endured by the inhabitants to be extreme. Whatever, therefore, might have heen his opinion of any part of our policy in Portugal, or even, if he believed that lord Wellington would be again com. pelled to retreat, still he would vote for the present motion, convinced that by af fording this timely assistance to the dis tressed inhabitants of Portugal, we should manifest a conduct so oppositely contrasted with that of the enemy that it could not fail to make an impression in Europe highly favourable to the British character, and tend to place that contrasted conduct in the strongest point of view. In Pars tugal itself it could not fail eminently to raise the British character in the estima tion of the people. In thus raising the estimation of the British character. in |