person who was at the moment preparing thority of the Prince Regent. Such wa to assume the direction of government. the ordinary mode of business, and thi Such an opportunity was not to be af course was surely particularly necessary forded to that illustrious person. So far to be attended to now. What right ha as he was yet informed, he could see no they to suppose that the Prince Regen ground whatever for the extraordinary would approve of the act. They had bu conduct of the Irish government. The one answer to make, and that was, tha noble Secretary, indeed, contended, that it the matter pressed upon them so suddenly was to be found in the Letter upon their as to leave no time for communication lordships' table from Mr. Hay, the secre- He had anticipated such an answer: bu tary to the Catholic Committee. But it the fact turned out, that the Irish Ca did not appear in the face of this Letter to tholics Secretary's Letter was dated Ja whom it was addressed or sent. Whom nuary the 1st. In order to enable thei did the noble earl mean to say it was sent lordships to judge, let them say how th to? To all the Catholics of Ireland? Or to interval of 43 days had been employed what particular persons? Would he pro- He would concede much to them, if the fess ignorance on that head? If ignorant, could shew that it was employed in tem in what a light did the government stand perate remonstrances, such as became before their lordships and the country? It mild and benignant government to th was of much importance to know who feelings of men smarting under a peculia they were, to whom this letter were sent; situation. A wise government would hav for he would admit, that if so large a used every conciliatory method; and i meeting were assembled by delegation, that had failed, though even then he should contrary to law, and for undefined pur- have condemned any irritating tone whic poses, it would be dangerous to the public might have been used by an offended go peace. There was nothing satisfactory vernment, yet necessity might hav upon this subject, in the Letter. The Ca- arisen for resorting to decisive steps. A tholics seemed to think that they were not present, how the time was employed, h violating the laws; and therefore the miwas utterly ignorant. There was no ne nisters were bound in justice to lay the cessity whatever for this step without the grounds before parliament, and the names Regent's consent. The great point was or descriptions of those to whom the letter not whether the law should be enforced was sent. There were other points of but whether the mode was such as was du yet higher importance. They were to to the dignity of the Prince Regent, to the judge of the time, the temper, and the tone peace of Ireland, and the established form of this Letter of the Irish Secretary; and of the government. There was a genera above all of the time. Their recent un-idea now entertained, and it was among fortunate debates on the Regency Question seemed to have put them out of all thoughts of such a thing as a government. Had the lord lieutenant's secretary the power to do this act without consulting the King's commands, or those of the illus-action was against all forms, as the old trious person who exercised his authority? The Letter could not be defended in any way but on an indispensable urgency, un. less the ministers were prepared to maintain that the lord lieutenant's secretary was actually the regent of Ireland. Let their lordships look at the nature of the government of Ireland. There were many of them who must know the practice of that government. There ought to be some of them then opposite to him. Would they have done this without taking the King's commands? Such was the constitution of that subordinate government, that they could do no more without consultation with the government here, than the ministers here could without the au the worst signs of the times, that there wa a disposition to neglect all forms. The constitution could not be preserved but by attention to forms. He was old-fashioned enough to admire our forms. This trans mode would have been by proclamation o the lord lieutenant in council. As there. was yet no information before their lord ships of the grounds upon which the conduct of the Irish government could be justified, he should give his most cordia support to the motion of his noble friend. The Earl of Ross thought it probable that the Irish government had resorted to measures of conciliation before issuing the circular Letter. The Letter of Mr. Hay, was, it was true, dated the first of Janu ary; but it did not appear that it was cir culated on that day; it was probable that it was not circulated for some days afterwards, and then, perhaps, privately, sc that some time would elapse before go Was had gent but hat ly be | founded upon suppositions. Let the documents be laid upon the table, to shew what the conduct of the Irish government had been. It was whimsical enough that the noble Secretary of State alleged the Catholic Committee to consist of persons who did not speak the sentiments of the Catholics of Ireland, whilst they were held out by the noble earl who spoke last but one, as the organ of the Catholics, to which government looked as regulating their movements. How were these contradictory statements to be reconciled? Like Sosia in the old play, the Catholic Committee thus buffeted about might say, "if we are not the Committee of the Catholics, be so good as to tell us what we are." It was said by an eminent man, Mr. Burke, that it was impossible to draw an indictment against a whole nation, but the Irish government seemed disposed to throw a whole, or three-fourths of a na tion into gaol. A noble and learned lord on a former night had said, that, the Convention Act was merely a declaratory act. He was afraid it was so, but if it was, he wished to be informed, whether it declared, what was previously the common law of Ireland, and if so, how it happened that. there was such a difference between the common law of Ireland and the common law of England, where such an enactment was no part of that law. vernment would be apprised of it. It this should also be borne in mind, that at the sary meeting of the Catholic Committee on the 2nd of February, a motion was made to rescind the resolution for circulating this Letter, on which, upon a division, the aumbers were, for it 14, and against it 24; but the votes of those who had been deleon gated from the counties having been obbut jected to, they were taken from the 24, and the numbers then were 15 to 14 Jagainst the motion, which was only lost, eir therefore, by a majority of one. This the being the case, it might be supposed by ed government, that a measure carried by ey so small a majority, would not be persisted in, and they might thus be induced to delay till the last moment resorting to hey harsh proceeding. He wished it, iar however, to be understood, that he did re not speak upon this subject with any knowledge of the proceedings of governdment, but merely presuming what their ch conduct might have been. That the conention of delegates was to be assembled ve for other purposes than those of petitionAting, was evident from the paragraph in be Mr. Hay's letter, stating the wish that the managers from the counties might be be those, whose avocations required, or whose leisure permitted their permanent, or occasional residence in Dublin. It was, beesides, certain that the petition to Parlia ement bad been finally agreed upon at the meeting of the Catholic Committee on the 2nd of February, and directed to be transmitted for the purpose of being presented. He was of opinion, that the lord lieu• tenant of Ireland would have deserved to be impeached if he had not used every exertion to put down a convention of delegates thus illegally attempted to be assembled, and by the assembling of which the public peace would have been seriously endangered. Earl Grosvenor admitted that the assembling of a convention of delegates would have been dangerous to the public peace; and observed, that what he meant to say was, that no danger would have arisen merely from the number of Catholics which it was proposed to assemble. Lord Holland observed, that the noble earl who spoke last but one, had supposed that measures of conciliation had been resorted to by the Irish government prenous to issuing the circular Letter, but what they wanted was the proof of that the table. It was impossible ake the statement of the noble earl fact проп The Earl of Donoughmore felt himself called on to defend the principles upon which the Catholic Committee had acted upon this occasion so frequently alluded to; and was prepared to contend, that upon any fair and candid view, as well as from what was incontrovertibly apparent on the face of the proceedings, no such conclusions as those drawn by noble lords opposite, particularly by the noble earl who spoke recently, could be deduced from them. The object of the Catholic Committee in assembling the meeting of so many of their brethren, appeared to be no other than to give greater weight and effect to the petitions, which they had to present to both Houses of Parliament. For this purpose they proposed to collect the sense of each county in Ire land upon the petitions, without which they could not be said to express the real sense of the country; and the petitions were consequently kept for the signatures of the most respectable individuals of the Catholic persuasion, if they should approve of their being presented this session. It was ander this impression, and with law and the spirit of the constitution. If their lordships looked back to the origin of this Convention Act, they would see that it ought to be considered as inapplicable to the case in which it was now resorted to; for the Catholics of Ireland had pes this view, that Mr. O'Connel, who might, be considered as one of the principal organs of the Catholic Committee, recommended the adoption of the measure which had excited so violent a proceeding on the part of the Irish government. It Was that gentleman's wish that the petititioned Parliament previous to its enacttion of the Catholics of Ireland should not merely be suffered to lie on the table, like the petition of the English Catholics; and Mr. Hay addressed the circular Letter which had been so much spoken of, not with an intention the most remote of violating the Convention Act, but in order to sanction for the Petition by the authority which it would derive from the signatures of the representatives of the different counties in Ireland, and thus solemnly to authenticate it to the imperial parliament; or to ascertain, on the contrary, through the same organ, whether the petition should proceed or not. The noble secretary of state had mis-stated the general feeling of the Catholic body on the subject of the petition, and the grounds on which they proceeded. But this was no com. mon question, and the manifesto of Mr. Secretary Pole was no common paper. He would ask their lordships what was the object of this extraordinary instrument? Was it intended to prevent the Catholic body from stating their grievances intu-jects of their common sovereign, in whose multuously? What were they to do? What did their lordships wish them to do? Would they prevent a temperate petition, in order to substitute an open rebellion? The Catholics of Ireland had humbly stated what it was lawful for them to state. They were debarred from any other legal mode of redress, and they resorted to that which alone was open to them. They knew that every great privilege was taken from them: they had their eyes fixed with watchful attention on the Convention Act: they had exerted the utmost precaution that their petition should be decorously and properly drawn up: it was their object not to contravene the letter or the spirit of the law. It had been said to them, in a warning voice, "Guard yourselves against the common enemies of his Majesty's Catholic subjects; we suppose that the right of petitioning is not taken from you; exercise it therefore, but exercise it with caution, for the eyes of government are upon you." Such was the spirit in which the Catholics of Ireland had acted; and he appealed to the sense of the House whether they had not acted in conformity with the letter of the ment: their rights were recognized: their petition was recommended by the government of Ireland, and a remedial statute was passed in compliance with the prayer of that petition; thus sanctioning the mode of obtaining redress, against which this Convention Act was now directed. Would not the recent proceeding, then, afford the Catholics of Ireland room to say they were a marked and pro-` scribed people? that they were the watch-word of a "No Popery" admini stration? This line of conduct and lan guage with respect to them, was very dif ferent from the nature and character of the proceedings which formerly took place, even in the parliament of Ireland: in their favour, when their case was duly noticed in a speech from the throne, and high remedial statutes passed in their be half. He deprecated, therefore, most strongly, the line of policy which his Majesty's ministers adopted, with respect to no fewer than four millions of the subs In ear, he was afraid, much misrepresenta tion, with respect to them had been poured. The statutes of which they la boured to procure a repeal, were a dis grace to the statute book; and to prevent their endeavours to obtain this laudable end the paper in question was calculated It was expressly intended to prevent his Majesty's Catholic subjects of Ireland from doing that to which all the King's subjects in common had a legal and constitutional right, namely, to petition for a redress of their grievances. whatever view he considered this act, he could only look upon it as a statute equally oppressive and disgraceful-as a sacrifice made by parliament to the incli nation and the prejudices of a few private individuals-which stigmatized that assem bly as an unlawful one at one period, which had obtained at another the distinct and unqualified sanction of government. It was a statute which held out to an Orange Party, set on by government, an invitation to arrest and imprison his Majesty's Catholic subjects, and converted into willing assistants one part of the people for the purpose of subjugating the f d 3 and recognized. He had told them that all the forms of justice would advocate their cause, which was acknowledged by all but those whose political tenets were to wage eternal enmity with the Catholics.-The noble lord concluded by supporting the motion. The question was then put, and negatived without a division. other. Nothing could be more injudicious than the enforcement of this act, for the purpose of preventing any discussion e on the petition, when the government knew not what the result of the discussion might be. But the strong hand of authority had been ineffectually placed upon it as an extinguisher. He observed that his Majesty's ministers were inclined to smile at his statements, and to treat them with derision and contempt; but he would tell them that he would be heard, when he pleaded in that House the cause of Ireland and of his Majesty's catholic subjects. He did not often obtrude himself on their attention; but when he did address himself to them on a subject of the most vital importance, he saw with indig nation the disposition which was manifested to treat it with insulting derision or culpable indifference! (Hear, bear.) He Would again repeat his assertion, that this act (this "religious act" he might term it) was one which would call upon all the Catholics in Ireland not to do any unlaw ful acts, but to vindicate their characters, and to express their opinions upon the points in question. It had been stated by a noble earl opposite, that the Letter of Mr. Hay, though dated on the 1st of January, had been mysteriously circulated, and was not known to government for some time, but was acted on as soon as known; but this was a point on which he was prepared to meet that noble earl; for he happened to have an extensive correspondence in Ireland; and he had received a letter, dated the 12th of January, which contained a paragraph, specifying the measure which had been adopted by the Catholic Committee, and inclosing printed copies of the proceedings of that Committee, together with the circular of Mr. Hay to the different counties of Ireland; and this was the secret document with which his Majesty's ministers, and the Irish government, were unacquainted until the 12th of February! He would let them still farther into the secret, and inform them, that he had been consulted by the Catholic Committee; and that he had represented to them that they had secret enemies, and that, in short, the whole government, on both sides of the water, were adverse to their cause. He had told them not to give themselves the trouble of obtaining signatures in the different counties; for it would not alter the nature of their case, nor give additional strength to their claims, which were already known (VOL. XIX.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, February 22. CATHOLICS OF IRELAND. MR. WELLESLEY POLE'S CIRCULAR LETTER.] The Hon. J. W. Ward said he rose, pursuant to notice, to move for such papers as might have a tendency to throw light on a late measure adopted in Ireland. Had he understood that the production of these papers would be conceded, he should have felt it his duty to abstain from in anywise.entering upon the question; but as this was not the case, he conceived it necessary to say a few words, to induce the House to accede to his motion. The House were aware that an act had been performed by the Irish government, calculated to excite in Ireland great anxiety and irritation; an act which nothing but absolute necessity could, in his opinion, justify. It was therefore incumbent on his Majesty's ministers, if they wished to preserve the confidence of the country, to shew the existence of that necessity. He certainly was not himself much inclined to repose confidence in the administration of the right hon. gen. tleman opposite, and more especially as that administration regarded Ireland; because he conceived that right hon. gentleman in that respect, to have proceeded on principles of the most mischievous tendency to both countries. But when it was found that his Majesty's servants rommaged the darkest pages of the statute book, in order to inflict pains and penalties on persons who, however erroneous they might be in any particular act, were generally and substantially as meritorious subjects as any in the King's dominions, it became necessary for parliament to interfere, and not to allow the security of a whole people to be endangered, without calling on those to whom the putting it to hazard was imputable for a full explana tion of the motives by which they had been influenced. It was as true as it was extraordinary, that the steps lately taken by the Irish government had been preceded by no official statement, either on (C) the part of that or of the British government, of existing disturbances in Ireland; on the contrary, the last notice that was taken of the state of Ireland by the right hon. gent. opposite, in that House, was a boast of its tranquillity.-With respect to the paper which had been laid before the House, he meant the Circular Letter of the secretary of the Catholic Committee, it contained no justification of the conduct of government; it merely ascertained the fact of the existence in Ireland for a considerable time of a Catholic delegation. Now, he apprehended, that the mere fact of the existence of such a delegation, did not justify government in the execution of a law such as that which had been enforced. It was to him evident, that the legitimate object which the Catholics of Ireland had in contemplation, could be accomplished with much greater safety through the medium of a delegation than by a reference to the whole body of Catholics in that country. But admitting the supposition, to the truth of which he could not by any means assent, that the delegation was of an illegal nature, and had improper objects in view, the House ought to be informed whether his Majesty's government had tried mild measures before they resorted to those of severity. It was necessary that the House should know whether any communication had been made to the individuals presumed to have offended against the law, previous to the adoption of a step by which, if it were followed up, a very large number of person, indeed would be deprived of their personal liberty. but of that, no trace appeared on the proceedings of the Committee. The House was in a state of profound ignorance on the subject, as nothing had been produced to justify the strong measure that had been had recourse to. His Majesty's ministers might, indeed, possess information of a different nature. They might know that this declaration was nothing more than a pretext; and that under this seeming regard for the laws, measures of a dangerous tendency were in contemplation. But the House had no information of any such designs, and remained in profound ignorance on the subject. From this measure, however, it appeared that Ireland was in a most perilous state; but it was impossible for a moment to conceive that the cause of this measure did not lie deeper than the Letter of the Secretary to the Catholic Committee; for this Letter was dated as far back as 'the 1st of January, and the Circular Letter of the Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant was dated the 12th of this month; so that it appeared there were six entire weeks between the two acts. It was hardly possible to conceive that this Letter of the Secretary to the Catholic Committee could be the ground for the proceeding of the Irish government, when it was considered, that so little stress did that government seem to lay on that Letter, that the lord lieutenant did not think it worth his while to transmit a copy of it to his Majesty's ministers. It had even excited no feeling in the government here, for his Majesty's ministers made no mention whatever of it in the late speech from the throne. There was not one syllable in the On the face of the paper which had Speech which had the smallest relation to been laid on the table of the House, there it, although this paper had been in existwas nothing of an alarming nature; on the ence for six weeks. His Majesty's miniscontrary, it appeared to have been drawn ters, under such circumstances, ought to up with a studious attention to mildness of be able to make out a good case: they expression, to decorous and respectful lan- ought to be able to shew what powerful guage, and with every necessary precau- motive could induce them to remain quiet tion to guard against any possible violation for six weeks, and then, all at once, to of the law. The authors of it seemed to break out into the precipitate adoption have been anxious to do only what was of this harsh and unaccountable measure. necessary to prosecute, in a legal way, the-But he wished to call the attention of objects of their petition. They expressly the House to a particular circumstance: say, "that no person, without a gross vio- He had to ask, at what time particularly, lation of the law, can be a representative this Letter of the Irish Secretary came or delegate: engaged as we are in a strug-forth? This paper was issued at a time gle for our legal and constitutional rights, it is our duty, as well as our inclination and decided determination not to violate the spirit, nor even the letter of the law." It was possible, however, that all these professions might be hollow and deceitful; 1 when the accounts of the Installation of the Prince Regent had barely arrived in Ireland. This was a most unlucky coinci dence; for the Prince was, deservedly, in the highest degree popular in that country, and was considered, on all hands, to be |